Bedford QLD Refuler

[Steven]

Hi all, I am cross kitting the new Airfix 1/72 QLD with the old refueler. Can anybody tell me what colour the vehicle would be during WWII.

Thanks in advance Steven

[Super Aereo]

Some good info here: http://www.matadormodels.co.uk/tank_museum/xcamo_ww2uk.htm

[Rosenberg]

Hi

Just joined the forum today as I was doing a bit of colour research. I followed the link above it says Humbrol 77 instead of Humbrol 96 RAF Blue. Is the entire truck painted in that colour? On the front of the box from Airfix the top is painted yellow. If that is correct,? If yes what is the correct yellow colour (Humbrol no,).

In the back of the tank there is the pump etc I will give them gunmetalic can't remember the Humbrol no.

What colour is the inside of the doors and the inside of the tank ?

How is the inside of the cabin painted seats floor etc

[dogsbody]

The colours used on the old Airfix box show post-war blue with yellow on top. These colours were not used during wartime.

Chris

[Selwyn]

Hi all, I am cross kitting the new Airfix 1/72 QLD with the old refueler. Can anybody tell me what colour the vehicle would be during WWII.

Thanks in advance Steven

All RAF vehicles post 1941 were paintd to army instructions click on this link http://www.mafva.net/other%20pages/Starmer%20camo.htm to see Mr starmers notes for details of the colours and schemes.

The refuellers would be a dark brown in colour (Not Dark Earth which was an aircraft colour) with black disruptive "mickey mouse" type camoflage, Tankers delivered after 1944 were UK olive drab (again not the same colour as the US colour!)The RAF did not go back to using RAF blue until 1948

please note that the refuelling booms on top of the tanker were a post war modification and not seen in WW2.

Selwyn

[Rosenberg]

Hej Chris

Thank you for the quick reply. I would say it is bad research or none research by Airfix recomending post war colours. Some should tell tem that they have got it wrong. Airfix is selling the truck as a Battle of Britian veichle. How can they do that as far as I know it was not in production until 1941.

Have you any idea of the colours inside the tank and cabin

[Rosenberg]

All RAF vehicles post 1941 were paintd to army instructions click on this link http://www.mafva.net/other%20pages/Starmer%20camo.htm to see Mr starmers notes for details of the colours and schemes.

The refuellers would be a dark brown in colour (Not Dark Earth which was an aircraft colour) with black disruptive "mickey mouse" type camoflage, Tankers delivered after 1944 were UK olive drab (again not the same colour as the US colour!)The RAF did not go back to using RAF blue until 1948

please note that the refuelling booms on top of the tanker were a post war modification and not seen in WW2.

Selwyn

So the Airfix Bedford QL is NOT a WW2 model... another mistake by AIRFIX.

[Rosenberg]

So my entire idea of the ww2 diorama with a couple spitfires and the Bedford QL has gone. I can stil do it but it will be total unhistoric.

[Test Graham]

The Bedford QLC was a wartime bowser, but as said not with the overhead booms, and not for the Battle of Britain period. You need an Albion, as produced by Matador Models, if you wanted to be right for that period.

Airfix have always cut a bit loose with their airfield vehicles, the Austin K6 in the Emergency Set was not in a wartime fit. However, those modellers who did care loved having these vehicles for converting them to other military softskin uses.

Is the kit in the BoB set box the new tooling or the old one? In the old kit the wheels were smaller (too small) and the springs squashed to match. Another common failing on their vehicles.

EDIT: GLB corrected to QLC.

Edited May 22, 2013 by Graham Boak

[rs2man]

So the Airfix Bedford QL is NOT a WW2 model... another mistake by AIRFIX.

This is correct . Don't forget , however , that this kit is over 40 years old -we were all much less knowledgable and much less discerning then . It is a decent model of a post-war QLD though and builds up nicely with just a better set of wheels . Pose it with a post-war Spitfire or similar and it'll look just fine .

[Test Graham]

I think you under-rate the modellers of the day. It was mentioned then that the fit was postwar, and that the wheels were too small. There just wasn't the internet to publicise such matters - but it did get into the magazine(s). The proper size wheels could (still can) be found in the Matador gun tractor kit, but these don't fit into the old QL arches because the springs are too squashed. In turn, the Matador wheels were too small for the Matador, but could be replaced by the ones from the bigger bowser. Ah, the days before after-market! The original poster's idea of combining the new kit chassis and cab with the old bowser is a way to a better kit.

By the way, the QLD is the GS truck, QLC the bowser (and other things), as the trooper is the QLT. (Did I say QLB for the bowser above? Oops, that's the Bofors tractor.) Simpler just to call them QLs.

There still are a lot of modellers who are less knowledgeable and less discerning, and without them we wouldn't have all these models to be knowledgeable and discerning about. But there is at least less excuse for the former nowadays.

Edited May 22, 2013 by Graham Boak

[Rosenberg]

Thank you to all replies I have learned a lot abouth painting of british ww2 veichels. I will just forget the Bedford QL browser for my ww2 spitfirediorama just he planes and fugures. Together with Bedford QL in the Airfix refuelling set was a AEC Matador fuel truck. It it is painted in the right colours will it be ok? Is it a ww2 model?

[Test Graham]

Yes. The AEC was introduced when the need was recognised for a larger bowser for the 4-engined bombers. It did exist in a number of slightly different versions, and the kit is a later one. There was a photo session on an early Stirling squadron, and the earlier version of the AEC features on several of the photographs.

[dogsbody]

Here's the image that Graham referred to:

http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205212315

Chris

[DavidJ]

There is a DVD "Nightbombers" in the Archive of War series that documents a Lancaster bombing raid from vehicle maintenance, planning, briefing, loading, take off, etc.

A number of different RAF vehicles are shown and a couple have yellow on their upper surfaces. These include a Thornycroft with Coles crane - the upper surface of the jib is yellow - and a David Brown tractor. The top of the tractor bonnet or engine cover is yellow but it is obscured by a fitted canvas cover. Perhaps the cover was removed at night.

Cheers

David

[DavidJ]

Yes. The AEC was introduced when the need was recognised for a larger bowser for the 4-engined bombers. It did exist in a number of slightly different versions, and the kit is a later one. There was a photo session on an early Stirling squadron, and the earlier version of the AEC features on several of the photographs.

An interesting photo. At first glance I took the colour for SCC15 but a closer look revealed what I think is a two colour disruptive camouflage: possibly the G5 Light Green and G3 Khaki Green of Scheme 2.

An AEC 854 in that camouflage would make an interesting contrast to my predominately SCC2 and SCC15 models.

Cheers

David

[Test Graham]

Yes, I was wondering about the colours myself - I was about to post last night but the link went down. There's another copy in Roger Freeman's The RAF in WW2 In Colour, where the main body of the AEC does look more like SCC2, but that has an unconvincing overall yellow cast to the whole print. I agree that it is a two-tone disruptive, rather than just a dark top as more common later. This would lend more credence to the earlier colours, although the 0854 is perhaps a bit late for these? It is at least an early one, judging by the roof. Could it be that the green stains on the tank sides are where dust has been washed away and the truer green colour showing through?

[DavidJ]

The same photo is reproduced on the rear cover of Steve Richards' "AEC Matador; taking the rough with the smooth". The photograph is captioned as an AEC 854 (early model with petrol engine) but the refueller doesn't seem to have the larger radiator of the 854.

Interestingly, the lighter colour is brown rather than green, perhaps a lighter brown than that used on the Stirling, ie not SCC2. However, I suspect that the brown is a product of the reproduction of the photograph (the blue of the RAF rondel is too light).

The colour demarcation on the tank sides is quite clear as are the stains running down from the top of the vehicle.

Cheers

David

[Test Graham]

There is a very similar b&w photo of an early petrol-engined Matador 0854 refuelling another Stirling, perhaps Steve Richards was confusing the two. It's in Les Freathy's British Military Trucks of WW2.

[Rosenberg]

An interesting photo. At first glance I took the colour for SCC15 but a closer look revealed what I think is a two colour disruptive camouflage: possibly the G5 Light Green and G3 Khaki Green of Scheme 2.

An AEC 854 in that camouflage would make an interesting contrast to my predominately SCC2 and SCC15 models.

Cheers

David

How can you be so sure of the colours from a almost 70 years old picture. I just mean how was the quality of colour photoes at that time Is it an old black and white photo which have been colourised.

[sean]

Watching "Timewatch" today about the Dambusters, there was a quick shot of a refueler in the green with blackish Mickey Mouse camo.

Would this be correct for wartime colours? I too have the refueler set, and would like to have the right look.

Sean

Edited May 23, 2013 by sean

[Test Graham]

Some WW2 colour pictures were very good, others less so. Generally there were very few taken of the RAF, except perhaps very late on, but those by Charles Brown are usually good to very good. In this case, as an IWM photo, it is very unlikely to be colourised. A reproduction may be worse than the original, so if you can't look at the original then hope for one that has been reproduced elsewhere, and pick the best. You can judge them by the way other known colours are represented, the flesh tone of people, sky, grass, the uniform colour, and (in this case) the known options that the bowser could have been. If it looks like two greens then G3/G5 was the specified combination for early in the war. It was then replaced by the mid-brown colour SCC2 with various different additions. For more information look at Mike Starmer's guide listed above.

In practice, any olive green (like G3 or RAF Dark Green) was likely to fade towards a mid brown, so any yellow cast on the film/reproduction will tend to muddy things (pun deliberate) making precise identification difficult to impossible. In this case the wavy camouflage is appropriate for an early war scheme rather than the later ones (such as "Mickey Mouse") with dark tops, making the possible options G5 with G3 bands, G5 with dark brown SCC1A bands, or SCC2 with SC1A bands.

[dambuster]

Hi

Just joined the forum today as I was doing a bit of colour research. I followed the link above it says Humbrol 77 instead of Humbrol 96 RAF Blue. Is the entire truck painted in that colour? On the front of the box from Airfix the top is painted yellow. If that is correct,? If yes what is the correct yellow colour (Humbrol no,).

In the back of the tank there is the pump etc I will give them gunmetalic can't remember the Humbrol no.

What colour is the inside of the doors and the inside of the tank ?

How is the inside of the cabin painted seats floor etc

So for a post war model what are the colours of the cabin interior and the pump control compartment interior at the rear of the vehicle?

Peter

[Test Graham]

Green with a very dark top suggests G3 with blue-black Nobel's Tarmac No.4 top, or perhaps SCC14 black. Normally this scheme would have had SCC2 rather than G3, but perhaps AEC had stock of G3 to use up?

By the way, most of these colours are available in the White EnsignColourcoats range. Or there are the mixes given by Mike Starmer.

Edited May 23, 2013 by Graham Boak

[Andrew Jones]

So for a post war model what are the colours of the cabin interior and the pump control compartment interior at the rear of the vehicle?

Peter

It's quite possible for a vehicle thats been repainted or refurbished after being in service for some time, for these areas to be in Interior Green.

Andrew