pacificmustang Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Gday All, I have a Hasegawa Hurricane IV on the bench which I would like to finish as an rocket armed SEAC machine Doing a bit of surfing around the IWM site I came across the below image which raises a few questions as I cannot find any other pics of the machine So, does anyone know the identity of the pictured a/c? also colours, I assume DE/DG/MSG? I think the pic was taken late 44/45 The ID bands and spinner have me interested too, they dont look white in the pics to me but a light grey, or is this just type of film. I do not have my heart set on a particular a/c yet so if someone has better info on another SEAC MkIV, I can be swayed Thanks anyone for any info. I have drawn a blank with the limited Hurricane books I have plus the net Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug A Jones Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Hi Bruce - the aircraft in the background was the inspiration for the Hurricane on the back cover of the first Squadron 'Hurricane in Action' book. They depicted it in OG/DG/MSG but DE/DG/MSG is most likely correct but as far as I'm aware the code and serial for this aircraft have not been found. The SEAC theatre bands appear to be a lightened SEAC 'White'.....the light blue in the centre of the SEAC roundel. The spinner appears to be the same colour.The colour of SEAC bands has been discussed widely in regard to Hurricanes over at Hyper Scale with advocates for both SEAC white and ordinary white. However you can see the contrast between the tail band and the fin flash on the background Hurricane shows the band is lighter than the flash but not white either. Other aircraft appear to show pure white so maybe both white and SEAC white were used or variations between the two mixed at unit level. The idea was to tone the bands down a bit, especially for Hurricanes that operated at low altitude and used forward strips. I'm sure others can add more to this vexed question but for my part I recently completed 'G' from 20 Sqdn with the speculative serial LF435. LF435 is recorded as a Mk IV used by that squadron but actual code/serial combinations are not known at this time. Note that the AZ Hurri IV in 1/72 is in error as that serial was applied to a Mk IID. Cheers Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug A Jones Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 I might add that I used pure white for the SEAC bands and the code letter G. The Hurricane in the background seems to have a SEAC white or maybe grey code letter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussG Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Hi Doug, Its funny but after a some 15 year break I have taken up the hobby again and after completing a 1/48 Tempest V and Spitfire XII, I plan to build a 20 Squadron SEAC Hurricane as I have a copy of a 20 Squadron logbook. W/O. Lee actually flies Hurricane LF435 in combat in March 1945 and logs it as a IID and not a mark IV. In fact he flies nothing else but IID's. Unfortunately W/O Lee never notes the serial which is a shame. However, comparing his logbook and the ORB for that day the code for LF435 is very likely to be 'Y'. Regards, Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Millman Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 N J Roberston lists the allocated Hurricanes in his history of the squadron and has LF435 as a Trop Mk IV. FWIW Mason lists LF430 and LF 458 as Trop Mk IV. I don't have a full listing of LF serials but maybe someone else could confirm LF435 from that. The Mk IV wing could be fitted with the 40mm guns and there were both IIDs and rocket-armed IVs on the squadron at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacificmustang Posted September 10, 2012 Author Share Posted September 10, 2012 Doug, many thanks for the info, most helpful. The back cover of the squadron book was what inspired me, again I seem to have picked a subject that was not thorougly documented !! the SEAC white interests me as I had no idea such a colour existed, so the bands, spinner and code letter would be a very pale blue? Thanks Nick, at least I can apply a serial that was allocated to a MkIV Will head off and search Hyperscale (always a pain) Cheers Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Millman Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 I posted some 20 Sqn Hurri serials and codes at my blog:- http://rafseaccoloursmarkings.blogspot.co.uk/2009/01/20-sqn-hurricane-iid-iv-burma.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussG Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Thanks for that Nick, Of course pilots have been known to get the serials wrong and logbooks are anything but infallible, but he flies LF435 almost exclusively during April and May and I have just noticed he very faintly annotes it as aircraft code 'Y'. Other than that I have no other official confirmation as to whether it is a IID or IV. Apart from converting to Spitfire VIII's later in the year there is only mention of IIDs. If it is of any interest I will happily forward copies of the relevent pages for your research. Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacificmustang Posted September 10, 2012 Author Share Posted September 10, 2012 Am I able to get permission to view your blog Nick? Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Millman Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Bruce, there is a new interface since Google took over Blogger. Should be ok to access freely now. Russ, yes very interested, thanks. Will send you a pm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Gday All, I have a Hasegawa Hurricane IV on the bench which I would like to finish as an rocket armed SEAC machine Bruce HI Bruce Word of warning about Hazywega kit, it's a IIC, and the wing panels are not correct for a IV. There was a thread on this an age ago, and some pics of the Mk IV in Belgrade were posted. http://www.britmodel...opic=59225&st=0 well, I emailed Tomo from the page you linked too, and asked if he had any pics of the upper wing, and he very kindly emailed some, and gave me permission to post them here as well. As i suspected, the MK IV has a different panel arrangement, I though two large panels between the spars like the IIC, but looking at the pics closely, it seems it is one large panel in the outer position,(for the browning 0.303)and a metal strip not seen on the IIC on the outer edge. And one smaller panel behind the main spar in the inner position, IIRC this was to access the breech of the 40mm gun when fitted. Is the correct? My next question is, did the IID have this panel layout, or did they just use a modified IIC wing? note the blanked out landing light port next to yellow stripe, the 0.303 sighting gun port, and the blanked over inner port, which seems to show that the IV wing was based on a modified IIC wing. The thing on the wing leading edge next to the joining strip is a camera gun port. Note from Tomislav's build, very useful underside detail, note metal plate, stubs for attaching 40 mm gun, and ejector slot for the 0.303 Browning sighting gun. Of note is the metal strip just by the shell ejector slot, in what looks like the same position as the one on the upper wing. Are the little bumps further forward to do with positioning of the drop tanks? Thanks to Tomislav for the photos and helping to answer to my question! Also, this was in the old Hurricane, history and how to model them book [from 1974 or so] rocket mountings to 1/24th Mk IID wing, but of use as has the small rear gun breech access panel, which the IV also has. To 1/48th There's also a couple of access hatches on the lower wing behind the rear spar that are not on the IIC or anything else AFAIK. Still, Hase managed to make a representation of the fuselage fabric covered access hatches that resembles no Hurricane I have ever seen. which will be very tricky to fix! Even worse, this 'detail' was then copied by Classic Airframes and Pegasus kits!!! please see here for pics of the problem http://www.britmodel...=40#entry814004 Unfortunately I have not been able to work out a fix for this so maybe best left alone.... HTH T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacificmustang Posted September 10, 2012 Author Share Posted September 10, 2012 Thanks Nick (and Doug, I see from the HS posts you have travelled this road before!) Even more inspired to do a 20 SQN machine now that I know they had some Aussie pilots on strength, no way of knowing which machines they flew though as the AWM pics do not show serials/codes either I note your comments re AB or LMB undersurfaces too Nick, which could be borne out by one of the AWM shots Russ, any entries for a P/O J Jenkins or F/LT Peter McMillan? Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacificmustang Posted September 10, 2012 Author Share Posted September 10, 2012 Troy, Thanks too for the info, most useful Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussG Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Hi Bruce, He flew with both Jenkins and McMillan, an Australian, although they are not mentioned in the logbook. They are all in the operations Record Book however. F/Lt. P. L. McMillan appears to have left after January 1945. Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radalt Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 I know it’s a not what this thread is about but that first picture would make a cracking Diao great from an antipodean an view point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug A Jones Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Typical - of the selection of serials for Mk IV's provided on Nick's site I still managed to pick a contentious one! Easy enough to change I guess. And I wasn't aware of the wing panel differences - those I'll have to live with - too hard to fix on a finished model. Cheers Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussG Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Bruce, It would certainly be possible to tell you which machines both Jenkins and McMillan flew, at least the codes as they are in the ORBs. Which serial you put to which code is up to you, for eg Jenkins flew Hurricane IID 'Z' on a number of occasions and you could use Nicks site to choose a serial. He also flew 'B' and 'P' (as did Lee)..... Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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