Trumpeter 1/48 Vampire

[Andrew Jones]

All we need now to make this thread complete is for someone to start drawing red lines on the photos.

Andrew

[thx6667]

Difference of opinion Mr Mock, I see nothing worth salvaging in this sorry mess of a kit, others think differently, I don't agree.

Disagree by all means, no one is going to make you buy/build the kit, so its not worth getting all wound up because others may roll their sleeves up and see if - note, if - anything can be salvaged.

And BTW, I don't think you know me well enough to call me 'dude' thanks very much.

Equally you don't know others well enough to call them "apologists" just because something is not for you.

Edited January 7, 2013 by Jonathan Mock

[Artie]

IMHO......I think that a great percentage of modellers don't care too much about minor shape problems or wrong undercarriage position....They're even miles away from modelling forums or online reviews. They just want to have fun building kits, adding new subjects to their cabinets (not like most of us, who just add insulation boxes to our stashes ).....And those are the modellers that spend enough money to make model companies go on their activity.

Needless to say, that's the market niche that model companies are aiming at.

Some people think that if a kit looks like the real thing, that's good enough to be built. Not my case, I must admit, but as far as there are other options, I won't care about the one that doesn't fill my expectatives.

For example: a closest examination of Trumpeter's kit shows some inccuracies. The Hobbycraft kit has it's own inaccuracies too...Now we shall choose between both kits and evaluate the amount of involved work to make them look right to OUR eyes...Or we can spent some money into an Alley Cat or Aeroclub kit...

I don't need any kit to keep alive for another week, so I can live with its inaccuracies or wait until Airfix will announce it for 2014 (hopefully) :)

Just my two pennies....

Cheers...

[therollercoaster]

Disagree by all means, no one is going to make you buy/build the kit, so its not worth getting all wound up because others may roll their sleeves up and see if - note, if - anything can be salvaged.

But I'm not in the least bit 'wound up', as you put it, why do you presume I am? Its a plastic kit, the world won't stop turning because I think its rubbish.

If others think its salvagable, well as you said, that is thier perogative, I didn't realise I had to agree.

[Rizzo]

IMHO......I think that a great percentage of modellers don't care too much about minor shape problems or wrong undercarriage position....They're even miles away from modelling forums or online reviews. They just want to have fun building kits, adding new subjects to their cabinets (not like most of us, who just add insulation boxes to our stashes ).....And those are the modellers that spend enough money to make model companies go on their activity.

Needless to say, that's the market niche that model companies are aiming at.

Some people think that if a kit looks like the real thing, that's good enough to be built. Not my case, I must admit, but as far as there are other options, I won't care about the one that doesn't fill my expectatives.

For example: a closest examination of Trumpeter's kit shows some inccuracies. The Hobbycraft kit has it's own inaccuracies too...Now we shall choose between both kits and evaluate the amount of involved work to make them look right to OUR eyes...Or we can spent some money into an Alley Cat or Aeroclub kit...

I don't need any kit to keep alive for another week, so I can live with its inaccuracies or wait until Airfix will announce it for 2014 (hopefully) :)

Just my two pennies....

Cheers...

I came across this page the other day, Journey kits vs destination kits: http://doogsmodels.com/2010/12/15/journey-kits-v-destination-kits/

I think it's fair to say Trumpeter kits are destination kits in those terms.

If it was a Sea Venom I'd probably still buy it and just try my best to fix it, and probably enjoy doing so. But with the alternative Vampire that's available, I don't really see the point with this one.

[Rabbit Leader]

As some of us refer to Trumpeter & Hobby Boss as Trumpyboss, what then are we going to call this kit.

1. Vamp-om

2. Ven-pire

3. ??

Cheers Labbit Reader (sorry - that's Chinese for Rabbit Leader)..

[thx6667]

If others think its salvagable, well as you said, that is thier perogative, I didn't realise I had to agree.

You don't, no one anywhere in this thread said you had to, but equally people should be able disagree with you without being labelled. I agree, it a plastic kit, so I don't know what the rest of your missive had to do with that, other than other people's attitudes/approaches toward "a plastic kit" clearly bother in some way to have felt he need to comment on it etc etc...

And now for Andrew, red lines...

[Andrew Jones]

But with the alternative Vampire that's available, I don't really see the point with this one.

Once again you miss the point , how many of the "alternative Vampires" could Alley Cat or Aeroclub produce compared to the many thousands Trumpeter can expect to sell.

That's the point !, Trumpeter , Revell, Airfix ,etc are in business first and foremost to make money, if we had to rely on the specialist cottage industry kit makers there wouldn't be enough to go around , just look at the prices Aeroclub kits make on Ebay for a start.

Whether you like it or not , it's horses for courses.

Andrew

[triumphfan]

Superb topic, very entertaining.

Thanks,

Steve.

[Norman]

Jonathan Mock

Thanks for the valuable input !! love it

Boy this is an interesting thread

[John Aero]

[thx6667]

But with the alternative Vampire that's available, I don't really see the point with this one.

Playing devil's advocate, I'd ask alternative Vampires available to whom? The percentage of modellers who want the best Vampire model they can afford and don't mind working in resin? Absolutely, but that's a small percentage of a small percentage of the overall market. Whether Trumpeter get a kit right or wrong, its distribution reach is still going to mean it sells numbers of one single kit that would probably account for the the total output of a small resin kit maker in their entirety. So what's the point of this one? There are people out there who make kits for the sake of making kits, who'll either not notice or simply not care if something isn't right. Does that make them bad people? Most probably not, they're just making models for entirely different reasons than others. Does that mean kit companies don't have to get things right? Nope, one would hope that they make every effort.

Yes there is alternative out there, but its not a mass market, injection moulded one.

[John Aero]

[John Aero]

Note the pointed boom ends. The kit does have too much curve on the rear of the tips. By using a horizontal but flat splitline they have brought the centre of the nose too high (among other things).

John

Edited January 7, 2013 by John Aero

[Rizzo]

Once again you miss the point , how many of the "alternative Vampires" could Alley Cat or Aeroclub produce compared to the many thousands Trumpeter can expect to sell.

That's the point !, Trumpeter , Revell, Airfix ,etc are in business first and foremost to make money, if we had to rely on the specialist cottage industry kit makers there wouldn't be enough to go around , just look at the prices Aeroclub kits make on Ebay for a start.

Whether you like it or not , it's horses for courses.

Andrew

Playing devil's advocate, I'd ask alternative Vampires available to whom? The percentage of modellers who want the best Vampire model they can afford and don't mind working in resin? Absolutely, but that's a small percentage of a small percentage of the overall market. Whether Trumpeter get a kit right or wrong, its distribution reach is still going to mean it sells numbers of one single kit that would probably account for the the total output of a small resin kit maker in their entirety. So what's the point of this one? There are people out there who make kits for the sake of making kits, who'll either not notice or simply not care if something isn't right. Does that make them bad people? Most probably not, they're just making models for entirely different reasons than others. Does that mean kit companies don't have to get things right? Nope, one would hope that they make every effort.

Yes there is alternative out there, but its not a mass market, injection moulded one.

I must admit I find both these replies a bit confusing.

My post was saying that I don't see the point of ME buying the Trumpeter Vampire (when I would be more satisfied making an Alley Cat model). Why would you bother to argue against that?

If your argument is that it makes business sense for Trumpeter to make models like this, or that most people won't care about the issues.... then you're arguing with something I've not said. I completely agree with that. I just don't care very much, so chose not to post about it. Doesn't mean I miss the point, does it?

Maybe you can just post your views without needing to also counter what others have posted. Who was it who said it's not worth getting wound up about?

[John Aero]

The copyright on this picture in my files is I believe credited to Vingtor.

John

Edited January 7, 2013 by John Aero

[Rev.Light]

We are comparing a mildly flawed £17 injection molded kit with a £45 resin kit?

I am disappointed that there are obvious flaws that have been pointed out and I am thankful that the flaws have been highlighted.

But as much as I would like to be able to push the boat out for the top notch kit, I know it just will not happen. I cannot justify it.

I for one will be trying a Trumpeter offering, when one crosses my path.

Having just completed the Attacker and Sea Hawk, one thing I do know, it will go together well, and will need very limited filling. So the only thing I need to think about is putting right the more obvious limitations, which will be done for half the price of the Resin kit. So I could do two?

Some of us just have to cut our cloth....

[pigsty]

On the subject of canopies, I'm not sure that either Trumpeter or Alley Cat has it quite right. John Aero's photo shows a clear (albeit samll) discontinuity between the glass and the metal bit at the back of the canopy. The Alley Cat kit has a metal rear end but I can see no discontinuity; the Trumpeter one has glass where there should be metal, but the curve does change.

Actually, I'd be little more concerned about the other end of the glass bits. The difference between the two kits' windscreens is pretty stark. Who do we trust ... ?*

* I'm trusting Classic Airframes plus an Aeroclub fuselage set. I may be mad but I can live with that level of madness.

[Ghostbase]

I came across this page the other day, Journey kits vs destination kits: http://doogsmodels.c...stination-kits/

I think it's fair to say Trumpeter kits are destination kits in those terms.

If it was a Sea Venom I'd probably still buy it and just try my best to fix it, and probably enjoy doing so. But with the alternative Vampire that's available, I don't really see the point with this one.

Thanks Rizzo, love the Journey kits vs Destination kits article, applies nicely to the differing viewpoints on this thread. And me - I'm *destination*!

I have been after a 1/48th scale Vampire for a while now, ideally an FB Mk.5. Purchased the CA kit from someone here for £20, nice kit but it is multi-media with resin, at the moment resin is way beyond my model making capabilities (as is vacform). Also purchased a HC Vampire but that got lost in the post, probably a good thing too from what I read here. Have looked at Alley Cat 1/48th product but again is multi-media and I just cannot justify £45 on something I am not sure I can build.

And that is it. No decent injection moulded 1/48th scale Vampire until this forthcoming Trumpeter kit which Hannants are pricing at £16.99. If it is in stock at the Basingstoke MZ when I next go there I will definitely purchase one, faults and all.

Just to say, this kind of debate is really helpful to me. The 'Journey' modellers on this board are quite right to point out all the faults of the kit, thanks to you chaps I can spend my £16.99 and know exactly what I am getting

[Homebee]

On the subject of canopies, I'm not sure that either Trumpeter or Alley Cat has it quite right. John Aero's photo shows a clear (albeit samll) discontinuity between the glass and the metal bit at the back of the canopy. The Alley Cat kit has a metal rear end but I can see no discontinuity; the Trumpeter one has glass where there should be metal, but the curve does change.

Actually, I'd be little more concerned about the other end of the glass bits. The difference between the two kits' windscreens is pretty stark. Who do we trust ... ?*

* I'm trusting Classic Airframes plus an Aeroclub fuselage set. I may be mad but I can live with that level of madness.

Sources:

http://svsm.org/gallery/vampire_fb9?page=1

http://svsm.org/gallery/vampire_fb9?page=2

http://svsm.org/gallery/vampire_fb9?page=3

V.P.

[chrisov]

Very interesting and long thread; while not wanting to hurt anybodies feelings but trying to find my way though all the posts and come up with a simple list of 'whats wrong' is proving difficult. Please would it be possible for someone or two, more knowledgeable folk, to compile a simple guide (idiots variety for me) to help me decide which I would try and incorporate when I get one, for my level of ability and help get me close to a good Vampire model. Unfortunately for me the Alley Cats one will be too expensive and I am not happy/experienced in resin working. Many thanks

Cheers

Chris

[John Aero]

I'll address certain faults when I can put the calipers on the kit but here are some as a quick visual checklist.

Nose section is wrong and if this is wrong then the vertical profile will be wrong. Nose has the wrong datum, the Apex/tip of the nose should be a scale 9" lower if the datum used passes through the centre of the jetpipe and the lip of the intakes.

Canopy has shape faults. Wheel wells are the wrong shape. The wing tips are too short ( the real a/c tip is 36" chord at the tip break NOTE not the tip fairing) and consequently the aileron tip has too much curve. I think the air intake lips should project a little more from the wing leading edge.

The jet pipe is too long on the model but perhaps this can be shortened or pushed further in. Late tanks are too blunt.

Goodness knows who's drawings they used. I have probably got copies of all western published Vampire drawings but I'm using my own for this exercise.

John

PS look at the decal drawings on page 3 and if these are also based on the references they used all the faults are visible.

Edited January 7, 2013 by John Aero

[AnonymousAA72]

Very interesting and long thread; while not wanting to hurt anybodies feelings but trying to find my way though all the posts and come up with a simple list of 'whats wrong' is proving difficult. Please would it be possible for someone or two, more knowledgeable folk, to compile a simple guide (idiots variety for me) to help me decide which I would try and incorporate when I get one, for my level of ability and help get me close to a good Vampire model. Unfortunately for me the Alley Cats one will be too expensive and I am not happy/experienced in resin working. Many thanks

Cheers

Chris

You may be better waiting until someone actually has their mitts on one of these for a full warts and all review. The flaws noted thus far are only whats been obvious from the photo's.

In reality this kit probably isn't as bad as it seems. There are clear issues - the canopy, windscreen and wing tips scream out as being wrong - but none of these are really beyond most accomplished modellers. I'd put these faults as being less of a problem with those on say Academy's Hunter FGA9/F6. And would maybe need less work to correct than maybe detailling an Airfix Harrier in the same scale.

.......but having tried to correct the faults on a Trumpeter 1/32 Lightning and a pair of Hobbyboss Tornado's, I have to say that I really can't be asked!

So good luck to all who will be building OOB or correcting the faults...I'll look forward to seeing some built!

[Enzo the Magnificent]

Purchased the CA kit from someone here for £20, nice kit but it is multi-media with resin, at the moment resin is way beyond my model making capabilities (as is vacform).

I have to say that I disagree with that comment. I don't believe that a good resin kit is beyond your capabilities.

[viscount806x]

Once again you miss the point , how many of the "alternative Vampires" could Alley Cat or Aeroclub produce compared to the many thousands Trumpeter can expect to sell.

That's the point !, Trumpeter , Revell, Airfix ,etc are in business first and foremost to make money, if we had to rely on the specialist cottage industry kit makers there wouldn't be enough to go around , just look at the prices Aeroclub kits make on Ebay for a start.

Whether you like it or not , it's horses for courses.

Andrew

Aeroclub go well on e bay because they are top kits. Horses for courses indeed.