Airfix - Paints included

[Sean_M]

For those of you who have been following my topic on Douglas Bader's Spitfire, you will already know that I recently bought the Airfix 1/48 model. Having now satisfied myself that more research is complete for the project begin, I suddenly realised that I had absolutely no idea of what to do with the paints included. I know that they are acrylic, also the box says? However, how do you use them in the airbrush? Should they be diluted with a reducer. If so, what reducer? I normally use Tamiya paints and thinners.

When I bought the model and went over to the pain stand to grab a few bottles of Tamiya paint, my wife stood glaring at me, saying "TThere is paint in the box". I tried to convince so that this was a bigger model and that they would not be enough paint. The helpful shop assistant to took her aside and said that I would have more than enough paint if I was using a airbrush.

I am not convinced!!!

So, If any of you wise folk have any sage words I'd like to hear them.

1. Will I have enough paint

2. do I need to thin the paint

3. if so, what thinners do I use

4. should I just toss the Airfix paint and go and buy the corresponding tamiy colours?

[John]

They are Humbrol acrylics and perfectly good paint. I've never sprayed it myself but all it brushes nicely with a few drops of tap water. I tend to keep the pots from gift sets and use them on smaller jobs.

Whether 3ml is enough to paint a 1/48th scale Spitfire is another matter though!

John

[Procopius]

1. Is there such a thing as enough paint?

2. Oh my heavens, yes.

3. As John said, you should be able to dilute it just fine with tap water.

4. Purely a matter of personal preference, but I've found that if I use conventional acrylics over Tamiya paints without giving them at least a day to cure, horrible, hideous cracking results. Something to consider if you're using both.

[Sean_M]

My step-son got an A+ in higher Art. We all thought he was going to be a full time artist.There are now a mutitude of unused, unopened accrylic tubes. I tride using them and both I and my airbrush came off secind best. I had no idea what I was doing with thinning them down etc, so I thought that they were no good for modelling. A few years ago I was talking to an "Old timer" who said that all he used was artist's acrylics and a tube would last for ever. I must have over 30 unopened tubes of varying colours, including silver, bronze. It would be great if I could put these to use Brand names are pebeo and galeria

[Procopius]

I'm in the USA, so it's possible those are brands we don't have over here. I only use acrylics (mainly modelmaster and lifecolor) through my airbrush, and they seem to work fairly well, though the amount of thinning any single bottle of paint has needed varies wildly. I don't know enough about enamels to know how they differ, though I understand acrylics dry much faster.

[Giorgio N]

It is possible to use artist acrylic paints for models: years ago I tried airbrushing some black paint (IIRC it was Pebeo) and it came out wonderfully. So I used it on the undersurfaces of a Monogram F-111 (bad kit unfortunately). The paint was lovely, the pigments were much finer than I had seen before on modeling paints. However the finish was very fragile and the paint did not stick on bare plastic but needed a primer. Then again, the same problems occur with many modeling paint brands !

IMHO the main problem is with the lack of "matched" shaded, but if you need base colours it's worth giving your stepson acrylics a try.

[Sean_M]

It is possible to use artist acrylic paints for models: years ago I tried airbrushing some black paint (IIRC it was Pebeo) and it came out wonderfully. So I used it on the undersurfaces of a Monogram F-111 (bad kit unfortunately). The paint was lovely, the pigments were much finer than I had seen before on modeling paints. However the finish was very fragile and the paint did not stick on bare plastic but needed a primer. Then again, the same problems occur with many modeling paint brands !

IMHO the main problem is with the lack of "matched" shaded, but if you need base colours it's worth giving your stepson acrylics a try.

The non-stick issue is what I had. I did not know enough about primers and thinning to pursue the issue any further. I would indeed like to hear a workable solutuin as it seems a pity to let so much paint go to waiste

[keefr22]

I use both artists acrylics (& those craft type acrylics (like Anita's) that come in the tall plastic bottles from craft stores) on my car models. I only ever use them over a primer coat (either Tamiya fine surface or Halfords car primer, either straight from the rattle can or decanted & used in the airbrush - depending how lazy I'm feeling) & after spraying they do have to be protected by a clear coat, although I don't find them any more 'fragile' than Vallejo acrylics. I often give them a few coats of Johnsons Klear before using a stronger clear coat such as Gunze Mr. Super Clear. However, if I were spraying an aircraft model with them, I'd use the Klear as I would anyway as a pre-decal coat & then a normal matt varnish such as Humbrol Matt Cote over that. I've never actually used them on aircraft model, but see no reason why that method shouldn't work.

As to thinning them, I just use tap water with a few drops of flow improver, just as I would any water based model acrylic.

HTH

Keef

Edited August 20, 2012 by keefr22

[Chuck1945]

If you are already using Tamiya paints (not spray cans), you have been using acrylic paints

I am also in the US, so have no knowledge regarding Humbrol acrylics, but none the less ... I have been using various acrylics for many years. The problem with adherence can usually be solved by washing down the assembled model before you start to spray the camouflage. I use Tamiya paints (as well as Gunze and PollyScale) and thin Tamiya with its own Tamiya Acrylic Thinner X20A. Cleanup is a snap with Windex (or whatever your equvalent happens to be. As far as thinning goes, you want the same consistency (viscosity) that you desire if you were going to spray enamels (or tamiya paint)

[BWP]

If you are already using Tamiya paints (not spray cans), you have been using acrylic paints

Probably, but not necessarily. In addition to their well-known acrylic range, Tamiya have a line of enamel paints, and also a line of solvent-based paints (the latter being recommended for RC cars, not styrene kits).

[keefr22]

And Tamiya acrylics have a different composition to other 'water based' acryiics like Humbrol, Revell, Vallejo, Games Workshop etc... They're more akin to automotive basecoat paint which is also described as acrylic but which will definitely not thin well with water! I have seen Tamiya described as 'acrylic laquers' - & they do thin well with cellulose thinners, whereas most water based acrylics will just turn into a huge gloopy mess if you try that...!!

Keef

[Sean_M]

Just to state the obvious. I know that Tamiya are acrylics and use X20A thinner. I use Humbrol or Revell enamel for small part detailing such as wheel, propellers, Spinners and small metal parts, such as aircraft legs (undercarriage). I am getting the feeling that the safest thing on aircraft is to stick to Tamiya acrylics. I have been curious about Vallejo but have not tried the range.

[Giorgio N]

Sean, vallejo paints are very good IMHO.

If you use a paintbrush, they are one of the easiest to use, dry quickly and leave no brush mark. If you use an airbrush, they might or not be easy, but with a few tricks (common to all water based arylics) they spray beautifully. There's also the model air range, thought for aibrushers, with more thinned paints.

The main problem with vallejo paints is that while the range is huge, the colours matched to standard aviation colours are not many and some searching is needed to find the best shade. The various conversion tables online are not IMHO always accurate (as I found out when looking for a decent Ocean Grey) but in the end it's possible to find a good number of decent matches.

Just keep in mind that as with most ater based acrylics, they don't like to stick to the bare plastic, a good coat of primer from a spray can solves this problem. Personally I've been using Vallejos on most of my models for the last 5-6 years (although not always for the main camouflage colours) and I'm not going back to enamels unless I need a particular shade not available in acrylic.

[Nick Millman]

FWIW Tamiya acrylics are described as "aqueous acrylic resin paints". Here are the ingredients for their XF-11 IJN Dark Green by way of a typical example:-

Water 36.8% (vehicle)

Calcium Carbonate 1.4% (an extender)

Titanium dioxide 1.9% (a white pigment but also used for opacity)

Vireous silica 1.5% (a filler and flattening agent)

Ethanol - 3.4% (pure alcohol - a solvent, the volatile part of the vehicle)

Propan-2-ol - 15% (isopropyl alcohol - as above)

Butanol - 2.5% (alcohol - as above)

Acrylic resin 12.1% (binder - non-volatile part of the vehicle)

Carbon black pigment 0.5%

Pigment Green 7 0.1%

Red, yellow and orange organic pigments 2.8%

Pigment Violet 23 0.1%

Aluminium hydroxide 5.8% (fire retardant for polymer filler)

An additive 1.0% (unknown)

Lacquers were defined chiefly by drying through rapid evaporation rather than by curing, which leaves a tough, flexible, light-weight film. Enamels usually have a drying oil as a vehicle. These definitions have become somewhat blurred by modern paint technologies and it is probably the amount of alcohol in the Tamiya paints that lead to them being described as "acrylic laquers".

The most potentially harmful ingredients (in terms of spraying particles) are the vitreous silica and carbon black. Not wishing to alarm but it should not be assumed that because the Tamiya paint is aqueous and acrylic it is not necessary to use a mask and extraction if spraying.

[pte1643]

Sean, vallejo paints are very good IMHO.

The main problem with vallejo paints is that while the range is huge, the colours matched to standard aviation colours are not many and some searching is needed to find the best shade. The various conversion tables online are not IMHO always accurate (as I found out when looking for a decent Ocean Grey) but in the end it's possible to find a good number of decent matches.

I agree with Giorgio.

Personally, I really get on well with Vallejo, and have almost completely converted (still have some Tamiya that I use here and there).

As said the colour range is huge, just don't go by the names if you want a specific shade, best to do your own colour swatches.

I've found that most of the colours are there... You just have to find them.

But they deffinitely need to go over primer, it just doesn't stick to bare plastic, or over alcad too well, I've found.

Edited August 22, 2012 by pte1643

[keefr22]

FWIW Tamiya acrylics are described as "aqueous acrylic resin paints"

Lacquers were defined chiefly by drying through rapid evaporation rather than by curing, which leaves a tough, flexible, light-weight film. Enamels usually have a drying oil as a vehicle. These definitions have become somewhat blurred by modern paint technologies and it is probably the amount of alcohol in the Tamiya paints that lead to them being described as "acrylic laquers".

The most potentially harmful ingredients (in terms of spraying particles) are the vitreous silica and carbon black. Not wishing to alarm but it should not be assumed that because the Tamiya paint is aqueous and acrylic it is not necessary to use a mask and extraction if spraying.

Thanks Nick, that's very interesting - what is it in their ingredients that cause them to behave so differently from other 'water based' acrylics then? Is it simply all that amount of alcohol in the carrier? (as well as cellulose thinners they do also thin very well with IPA, while again most other 'aqua' acrylics that I've tried that with turn lumpy & gooey). It's well acknowledged that Tamiya acrylics are pretty hopeless for brush painting (which I don't do much of so have never tried), and I've never been able to succesfully thin them with water to airbrush - to me they behave & smell totally different from most other acrylic paint (apart from the automotive basecoat paint I mentioned earlier)

Keef

PS sorry Sean if this is hijacking your thread...

[mobydog]

I am an artist and use artists acrylics on my canvasses but I also use the same paint for modelling, both airbrushing and brush painting. I dont thin them with water though. I use spray window cleaner.

I often add acrylic flow improver as well.

Andy

[JMChladek]

Since you already have some X-20A thinner in your stash, it might not be a bad idea to do a test run to see if it will thin the Humbrol acrylics for decent spraying results. I've used Tamiya thinner to thin Testors Model Master acrylics here in the states and the stuff works A LOT better than Testors own acrylic thinner. With the Testors acrylics I thinned with Testors thinner, the paint did not adhere to my primer coat well at all and tended to peel off. The Tamiya thinner by comparison seemed to give it some well needed bite, so it is pretty much all I use now for acrylic airbrushing.

As I said though, I would perhaps test it out on a scrap part with Humbrol before using it on your Spitfire, as I admit I have no experience spraying Humbrol acrylics.