Anatomy of a Tank

[Derek A]

As a newcomer to afv modelling, my natural habitat is with aircraft, I find I am having some trouble with the terminology. I don't know my drive sprocket from my copula! Can anyone recommend a book that may help me learn the language?

I've also placed the same post on the IPMS web site but then thought I might reach a wider audience here.

Thank you for your interest.

Derek

[Antoine]

I don't know about a book, but I'm pretty sure that you'll learn quite quickly, step by step, as it's not too difficult.

any specific words that you wonder about, for a start?

[BWP]

I can't think of any specific book, but I'd wager Wikipedia and/or Google might help you a lot with many of the basics.

[Jim Starling]

As a newcomer to afv modelling, my natural habitat is with aircraft, I find I am having some trouble with the terminology. I don't know my drive sprocket from my copula! Can anyone recommend a book that may help me learn the language?

I've also placed the same post on the IPMS web site but then thought I might reach a wider audience here.

Thank you for your interest.

Derek

Just ask for definitions of words as you need them. Anyone on any armor forum (or modelling in general) will be happy to help. Any words you need to know now?

[pigsty]

First one, just to clear up any misunderstanding: it's a cupola! A copula would be something very different. The cupola is the device by which the commander (and sometimes other crew) can see out without opening the hatch. Generally it consists of a raised hatch with vision devices arranged around it, and sometimes a gun built in (eg the M60). The best cupola concept for my money was on the Conqueror, as it could be rotated independently of the turret and allowed the commander to line up the next target while the last was still being engaged. Or would have, if the electronics had been up to it.

The term is borrowed from architecture: a cupola is a small dome on top of a bigger dome. Oddly enough, a lot of tank terminology is borrowed - must be because the tank is only just approaching its hundredth birthday.

[andym]

This should help a bit:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tank

Anything else then just ask on this site.

HTH

Andy

Edited August 13, 2012 by andym

[Wolfpack]

Just learn the basics about Tiger tanks. Everthing else is just so passe.

W

[Derek A]

Thank you all for your kind offers of help, I'm not very active at the moment as I am preparing to move to the other side of the country, but once I'm settled, I will be taking up your offers of help!

I was also quite relieved that my spelling of cupola wasn't actually rude!

Once again, very many thanks.

Derek

[Widow 65]

I am ex Armour of 22 years and have done most things with tanks than you could imagine!!!

Feel free to use and abuse me with Tank Terms...

[Graeme]

Just remember - tank drivers were known to us in REME as 'Boinks'

Why? Well when they finish basic training, they are all stamped on the forehead as 'failed' - boink!

For example, tell a tank driver to fill up the gearbox with oil when a new one had been fitted, and quite often that's what you got - a gearbox filled to the top! we also had an example with a Ferret driver who for some reason took out both bungs in the fluid flywheel, rotated it so that one was at the top and one at the bottom and then wondered why he used about 20 gallons of oil and it still hadn't filled up...

I won't embarrass the regiment involved by naming them but they were from Yorkshire and had the smallest cap badge in the Army (we always said it was to match the smallest brains...)

LOL

Graeme

[Panzer Vor!!!]

Just learn the basics about Tiger tanks. Everthing else is just so passe.

W

too true tiger rules ok!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[pigsty]

OK, then.

Tiger tank features:

• underpowered with unreliable cooling system that cooks the engine regularly because of the demands being made of it
• suspension that freezes solid when cold and muddy and requires half the wheels to be removed to repair just one of them
• too heavy for most roads and bridges of its day
• too wide for rail transport, requiring the use of special narrow tracks that have to be fitted laboriously before loading onto a train and exchanged for the proper ones after unloading

Shall I go on ... ?

[Panzer Vor!!!]

yes i know that but their is something about the tiger, like it s gun which could pick off any tank at ranges that the allied tanks could nt match . its domination of the battlefield numeroues times attacks were defeated because of tigers.

Edited August 16, 2012 by hood

[Wolfpack]

Tiger tank features:

1. BFO cannon that could kill any other tank at a good range and put the fear of God/ beelzebub/ whatever, into those having to face it.

2. Thick armour that was inpenetrable at safe ranges by any allied tank up to 1944.

3. Great suspension and a good turn of speed over all terrain.

4. BFO cannon.

5. Had a bigger brother waiting in the wings with an even bigger BFO cannon.

6. Filled US tankers pants with copious quantities of brown fluid.

7. Filled Brit tankers pants with something similar to (6).

8. Superb optics.

9. Did I mention a BFO cannon?

10. Looks like a tank should.

11. Sounds like a tank should.

12. Filled Sov tankers pants with stuff as in (6) & (7) untill 1944.

13. Is called Tiger........grrrrrrrrrrrr!

14. Has a mate called...................Panther. Even more grrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

W

[Panzer Vor!!!]

1. BFO cannon that could kill any other tank at a good range and put the fear of God/ beelzebub/ whatever, into those having to face it.

2. Thick armour that was inpenetrable at safe ranges by any allied tank up to 1944.

3. Great suspension and a good turn of speed over all terrain.

4. BFO cannon.

5. Had a bigger brother waiting in the wings with an even bigger BFO cannon.

6. Filled US tankers pants with copious quantities of brown fluid.

7. Filled Brit tankers pants with something similar to (6).

8. Superb optics.

9. Did I mention a BFO cannon?

10. Looks like a tank should.

11. Sounds like a tank should.

12. Filled Sov tankers pants with stuff as in (6) & (7) untill 1944.

13. Is called Tiger........grrrrrrrrrrrr!

14. Has a mate called...................Panther. Even more grrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

W

and the defence rests its case my lord

Edited August 16, 2012 by hood

[pigsty]

^^ All that and more, plus none of the problems I pointed out, adds up to the Leopard 2, especially the later variants. Now that is a proper tank.

[Panzer Vor!!!]

^^ All that and more, plus none of the problems I pointed out, adds up to the Leopard 2, especially the later variants. Now that is a proper tank.

oh come on you know the challenger 2 is THE tank to have leopard 2 only enjoys good export sales becuse the german goverment back their defence industry s better then we do ps are we ever going to agree on summat chap !!!!!!!

[pigsty]

Well, not this, perhaps ...

Every country says its tanks are the best - of course they do. The Leopard 2 has scored well in exports for two reasons: (i) Germany built several thousand (compared with a few hundred Challengers) and so had plenty to sell on when the CFE Treaty took effect; and (ii) in the new-build market, objective assessments have concluded many times that eight of ten cat purchasers prefer Leopards. I can't understand what you mean about the Government not backing the UK defence industry, not when it falls over itself to flog arms abroad (which is why Britain's is something like the third biggest arms industry in the world) and even promises to pay manufacturers if buyers welsh out. The simple truth is that the few countries that have chosen the Challenger series over anything else are ones that have a long tradition of buying British tanks (and even for one of those, they were second-hand at a good price). And two countries closed down their own tank building capability and bought the Leopard 2, because they knew it was better than anything they could design.

[Panzer Vor!!!]

i take your points on board chap and agree with some but not all i still rate the chally over the leo ,its daddy was the cheiftain and centurion two of the greatest tanks ever built my point about the gov and defence industry is that the gov seem to tie them in knots ref exporting i was told that the leo was the armys choice over the chally but the gov didn,t want the furore if we were seen to buy a german tank

[SleeperService]

I know I'm new here an' all but I feel I must comment . The Army's preference for the Leopard was due to plans to start the development of a new tank from scratch, TPTB knew this would mean nothing for at least ten years and the Chieftain was getting to be a maintenance nightmare. As a result the Shir hull with excellent RR engine was mated with a Vickers turret to make Chally 1 while the 'full fat' Chally 2 turret was developed.

Chieftain was a good tank for Northern Europe but was always crippled by it's engine (usually literally). As it was coming out of service some parts were being used at 10 times the projected rate, fuel pumps spring to mind. My landlord was a REME engine fitter and has some truly great tales including one where a freshly minted Rupert was conned into betting some Germans that a Chieftain engine change was quicker than a Leopard. Kev (my landlord) was in charge of the REME crew and the Gemans had finished before they'd lifted their engine out. He wasn't stupid as it's a bitch to align when dropping back in. They all got seriously bladdered on the proceeds.

Centurion was a very good tank no argument there, the Israeli's seem to agree.

Like so much at that time the Chieftain could have been a world beater but it wasn't finished properly. Remember that the German and British design criteria are rather different so we're comparing cows and sheep really.

[Panzer Vor!!!]

I remember reading that the Israeli;s wanted to buy the cheiftain after trailing it , but we refused due to one of the wars breaking out(not sure which one )i think we missed a chance to see what the chieftain was like in combat, having said that any country that used the cheif seem to be well pleased with it after its engine was sorted . i still rate the centurion and cheiftain highly

[SleeperService]

You're quite right hood according to Zaloga (New Vanguard 21 The Merkava) two Chieftains arrived in Israel in October 1966, despite high hopes the deal fell through as the 1967 war erupted. I have never found any photos to prove it but I believe they were Mark 1 02EB48 and 02EB44 which had been in Aden for hot weather trials from 28/7/66 with 1 RTR (source Forty Modern Combat Vehicles No1: Chieftain). The trials were probabily completed to allow the movement to Israel as the first production vehicles (Mark 2) arrived with 11 Hussars in November 1966 in the UK.

As the deal involved the Israelis helping with final development of Chieftain and, eventually British assistance to set up a production line in Israel, the hot weather trials vehicles would seem a logical choice. Would make an interesting What If

Security was pretty tight for the UK participants but I'm still surprised that nothing has shown up. Well maybe one day.....

[Panzer Vor!!!]

i was told by a israeli tankie at bovington tank museum that the merkava was influeced by the cheiftian but of course the next logical step for the cheif was the khalid which is at bovington ,a mix of chally and the cheif in my eyes a good looking vehicle .I think the israelis would have done better with the cheiftain then the M60. i keep thinking about an israeli cheiftain wonder what that will look like ?????

[SleeperService]

i keep thinking about an israeli cheiftain wonder what that will look like ?????

Great minds are thinking alike. Possibly an escape hatch down the side of the engine like the T55 based APC? Hmmm......

[Panzer Vor!!!]

searchlight over/next to the main gun extra mgs fitted no side skirts im thinking externally , mortar at vrear of turret and sinai grey colour scheme sounds ok to me wheres my tammy chief !!!!