Red Arrows toying with a new livery, fin only most likely

[thx6667]

Or we can have retro reference to the last scheme worn by the Gnats.

[thx6667]

And if the Gnat's were still flying...

[SkippyBing]

Well if you consider a union flag solidly fixed to a surface and constructed properly.

The concept of getting it upside down is not a consideration because it will be universal in orientation.

So being upside down is not a consideration.

Yes, but you do have to get it right in the first place otherwise you're permanently in distress!

[Radleigh]

Vinyl stickers! A lot of marking these days are just giant decals rather than being painted on. In fact I think the fin and rudder could be done that way as well, like vehicle wraps, which can then be removed when done.

Never done a large vinyl wrap, the biggest one I done was a 101 SQN marking on a VC-10, all markings other wise were painted on with vinyl stencils. Would be alot easier but I guess it depends how long they want to keep them on for, Vinyl fades quicker than paint, and if you get tear, say good bye, to it too lol

[Harrierpilot]

Winner.

(Although I'd suggest that either the current white "ROYAL AIR FORCE", or the quite tidy blue version, would have to remain (it's all about the brand!).

This version of the tail would be ideal and but I do think the "Royal Air Force" titles should be kept running down the fuselage in white.

After all it's OUR Team.

[eagle]

Yes, but you do have to get it right in the first place otherwise you're permanently in distress!

Spot the wrong ones

[eagle]

The cheapest option

[Harrierpilot]

One of the ways that the Boss can present these ideas is for someone to rough build a few Hawks in 1/72nd scale and apply the markings onto them.

THEN, build a "full on" model (1/48th scale?) of the selected scheme to put in front of the AOC to get approval of it before they apply them onto the jets.

This is the way that No.78 Squadron got their special Sea king HAR3 done when they were based in the Falklands.

[pte1643]

The cheapest option

How about the Car Window Flags... Ala' World Cup etc... 50p for two in Halfords... http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/...tegoryId_165574

Would look quite smart "Clamped" onto the canopies. And all for £4.50.

[eagle]

Perhaps future proof any final designs other factors may need to be considered.

That is if scotland go independant then we lose the blue.

[Flankerman]

One of the ways that the Boss can present these ideas is for someone to rough build a few Hawks in 1/72nd scale and apply the markings onto them.

THEN, build a "full on" model (1/48th scale?) of the selected scheme to put in front of the AOC to get approval of it before they apply them onto the jets.

This is the way that No.78 Squadron got their special Sea king HAR3 done when they were based in the Falklands.

Way back in 1978-ish (IIRC), my then wife's WI meeting in the village hall had a talk by a young Flt Lt from RAF Kemble - about the new Hawks they were busy working up on.........

Naturally, lots of husbands attended - and listened to a fascinating talk about the introduction of the new trainers.

One point I vividly remember being told is that they actually painted two colour schemes on one airframe - one on the port side, with another different one down the stbd side....

They then flew the Hawk in front of the AOC-in-C - first one pass left to right showing one side, followed by another pass right to left showing the other.....

I don't think they actually pretended that it was two different airframes - but the powers-that-be decided which scheme they liked best - and it was selected.

So I guess that money was tight even then.......

The Flt Lt also mentioned that they were having trouble making smoke - as the Adour turbofan ran a lot cooler that the Orpheus turbojet on the Gnat.

They eventually changed the formula of the diesel oil and dye ........... and the rest is history.

Ken

[Lothian man]

Perhaps future proof any final designs other factors may need to be considered.

That is if scotland go independant then we lose the blue.

That was my immediate reaction to the discussion of putting more of the Union Flag in the scheme, living where I do. But I didn't have the heart to say so, though I did wonder if anyone else would notice! Maybe that is why they don't want to spend too much on it - at least till October 2014 comes and we know the result. The MoD has just been given a huge rocket by MPs for not even beginning to plan for the contingency that the referendum is passed, so perhaps this is part of it!

There is a curious anomaly about the Union Flag, in that the "Scottish" bit is plain wrong - it is always dark blue whereas the blue of the Scottish Saltire is a much lighter sky blue, almost French blue. But, in any case, the Union Flag schematic (other than the simple red/white/blue tail fin) has never been a significant element in the Arrows schemes, which were primarily red and white. Certainly as Eagle says a futureproofed scheme would be sensible - like the original Hawk scheme with the little stick on Union flag, which was the best anyway, or so I think.

Edited August 4, 2012 by Lothian man

[eagle]

(the quality is not good using paint cant I keep a straight line.But it portrays the idea.)

Edited August 5, 2012 by eagle

[heloman1]

What about dropping in RAF Blue to replace the Roundel Blue? It could look quite good/interesting.

Colin on the Africa Station

[jenko]

That's a hell of a big "remove before flight" tag !!!

[Max Headroom]

One point I vividly remember being told is that they actually painted two colour schemes on one airframe - one on the port side, with another different one down the stbd side....

They then flew the Hawk in front of the AOC-in-C - first one pass left to right showing one side, followed by another pass right to left showing the other.....

Ken

This begs the question.......pics please and who will model if first?

As to the flag, pity the Welsh. We aren't on it at all. I did once consider what what the UNION flag look like with the bottom half blue replaced by green.

Trevor

[Kallisti]

Well since Wales was a principality and not a kingdom it didn't really get a look in to represent the flag of the United Kingdom.

However a Welsh flag incorporation could look something like this:

As for the Red Arrows I liked Jonathan Mock's first idea...

[Max Headroom]

Well since Wales was a principality and not a kingdom it didn't really get a look in to represent the flag of the United Kingdom.

However a Welsh flag incorporation could look something like this:

You could argue that Henry Tudor (a Welshman) conquered the English and annexed them.

Anyway.....

I like the idea of imagineering a prototype for their Airships to ponder.

Trefor

[Harrierpilot]

Come on Gents - we're starting to go "off - topic".

The brief was to suggest colour schemes for the Team's Hawks fo their 50th Anniversry not indepenance for parts of the UNITED KINGDOM

[Vickers McFunbus]

This version of the tail would be ideal and but I do think the "Royal Air Force" titles should be kept running down the fuselage in white.

After all it's OUR Team.

Quite. The Royal Air Force titles would have to be kept - otherwise they wouldn't have gone on in the first place - I quite like the idea of them being blue on the continued white stripe.

Re the point made by others about the partial union flag: it has to work that way, as after all the fin is currently an full surface RAF fin flash, so it would be a tinkering on that theme.

[Paul.Brown]

I've been asked to start a thread on behalf of the Reds, as the boss has been toying with the idea of applying a new livery to the jets. If it happens, then it will almost certainly be limited to the tail fin, but possibly onto the fuselage sides a little too. Obviously they don't have the time or budget to re-paint all the aircraft all over, but apparently a fin re-paint is pretty cheap and simple. They also don't have the budget to employ a design agency, so if anyone has any thoughts or ideas and is able to scribble them onto some paper then please feel free. You can post anything here if you wish or PM me personally. The boss loves the 2012 Hawk and Tucano display jets if that helps, but I know any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

How about adapting an early 4FTS scheme (tail only) with the white on the fusalage blending into the centre of the flag?

Hawk early scheme

Regards

Paul

[4scourge7]

I think the Reds already do a pretty good job of flag-waving and showing GB in it`s best light, improving on that is a big ask.

Maybe, as it`s THEIR anniversary, the scheme should be a reflection of their heritage, for example a pictorial roll-call of all the nations they`ve displayed in over the years.

And of course, some red, white and blue (accent on the red).

Cheers, Ian

[JosephLalor]

Well if you consider a union flag solidly fixed to a surface and constructed properly.

The concept of getting it upside down is not a consideration because it will be universal in orientation.

So being upside down is not a consideration.

I'm given to understand that there is a right way up for the Union Flag. In this orientation the broad white diagonal bars are above the red diagonal bars in the upper and lower cantons of the hoist.

Joseph

[pigsty]

I'm given to understand that there is a right way up for the Union Flag. In this orientation the broad white diagonal bars are above the red diagonal bars in the upper and lower cantons of the hoist.

This is true. But you do have to wonder at the sense of (i) adopting a flag that's very nearly symmetrical, but not quite, then (ii) demanding that it be flown "the right way up" when only pedants and vexillologists will write to the Daily Telegraph to complain in tones of smug satisfaction. On an aerobatic aircraft, whatever you do, it will be the wrong way up some of the time.

The cheapest option

True ... apart from the expense of building and certifying a dozen Gnats.

I still think nothing needs changing. But someone has just inspired this thought - why not return to the original training colours of red, white, and light aircraft grey? Nothing flies like that nowadays and I've always thought it was one of the nicer schemes wrapped round a Hawk.

Edited August 6, 2012 by pigsty

[eagle]

Come on Gents - we're starting to go "off - topic".

The brief was to suggest colour schemes for the Team's Hawks fo their 50th Anniversry not indepenance for parts of the UNITED KINGDOM

I strenuously disagree, its as important if not the most important aspect of all.

If Scotland are going to leg it ,then perhaps we should reward Wales with being integrated into the colours of our national flag.Which represents all of us in a union.