Prenton Posted August 1, 2012 Posted August 1, 2012 Ok then - here is what may well have been the real start of Close Air Support as we know it - the STUKA! My example will be the early version, the Ju 87A, which was tried out in combat conditions first during the Spanish Civil War. Famous/infamous for the attach on Guernica, in the Basque country, it allowed the Reich to hone its tactics and improve the type to its later variants that did so much damage in Poland, Belgum/France and elsewhere in support of the Blitzkreig. The kit is kitted out in 1/72 only, I understand, by Special Hobby. (SH also do a 1/48th kit) The usual sprue shots:- What is most interesting is the very small etch piece, which provides some cockpit details, seatbelts and the dive brakes. Some of these are VERY small....should be a challenge! (Despite what it says on the box, there is no resin in this kit.) There's a holiday weekend coming (at least here in Ireland) so this will give me some time to work on the etch and make a start on the cockpit. Cheers, Philip
Bertie McBoatface Posted August 3, 2012 Posted August 3, 2012 (edited) My example will be the early version, the Ju 87A, which was tried out in combat conditions first during the Spanish Civil War. Famous/infamous for the attach on Guernica, in the Basque country, it allowed the Reich to hone its tactics and improve the type to its later variants that did so much damage in Poland, Belgum/France and elsewhere in support of the Blitzkreig. Strange looking thing with the trousers. Good choice. Not used at Guernica BTW. JU52 He111 SM59 and Do 217 and Me109 but no stukas. but then Guernica not CAS but strategic bombibg anyway. Edited August 3, 2012 by per ardua ad ostentationem
Prenton Posted August 5, 2012 Author Posted August 5, 2012 Strange looking thing with the trousers. Good choice.Not used at Guernica BTW. JU52 He111 SM59 and Do 217 and Me109 but no stukas. but then Guernica not CAS but strategic bombibg anyway. Don Didn't know that! So many books credit/discredit the Stuka for Guernica.... Anyhow, hope you enjoy! Working on the etch at the minute, and will have some pics up tomorrow. Philip
Test Graham Posted August 5, 2012 Posted August 5, 2012 I think a look at WW1 operations will bring out lots of examples of Close Air Support, from Camels trench strafing (look for Sopwith Salamander as a dedicated CAS design) to the German CL series culminating in the all-metal armoured Junkers. Like many of these things, it rather depends upon just what you mean - but the Ju87s went out to Spain to replace the He51s carrying out the same missions. Even in WW2 the Hs123 was considered as more a CAS type than the Ju87, but it rather depends.... Anyway, if no-one has thought of anything earlier than the Ju87A, I hope I've at least provided some ideas.
Prenton Posted August 5, 2012 Author Posted August 5, 2012 I think a look at WW1 operations will bring out lots of examples of Close Air Support, from Camels trench strafing (look for Sopwith Salamander as a dedicated CAS design) to the German CL series culminating in the all-metal armoured Junkers. Like many of these things, it rather depends upon just what you mean - but the Ju87s went out to Spain to replace the He51s carrying out the same missions. Even in WW2 the Hs123 was considered as more a CAS type than the Ju87, but it rather depends....Anyway, if no-one has thought of anything earlier than the Ju87A, I hope I've at least provided some ideas. Hey Graham, I was just going along with Smits, who is the (one of the) mods on this.... see: http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.p...40&start=40 No prob if someone has a WW1 example for the GB....CAS may indeed have started with some poor unfortunate trenchies getting done by air as well as by artillery barrages.... I can even offer up a He 51 if you want (also in SCW) if there's time... (at least the '51 doesn't have too much rigging, unlike those Camels). (My rigging skills would not be up to the standard of some of the folks on this forum.....) So, if you want to put up a Great War example, I humbly bow...In the meantime, my Stuka will show the path to the latest UAV's etc. Philip
Prenton Posted August 5, 2012 Author Posted August 5, 2012 Strange really, the Ju87 is one of the key ground attackers. The proof of concept aircraft in fact. Err...I go with what Don says... the proof of concept....... Philip
smuts Posted August 11, 2012 Posted August 11, 2012 I think a look at WW1 operations will bring out lots of examples of Close Air Support, from Camels trench strafing (look for Sopwith Salamander as a dedicated CAS design) to the German CL series culminating in the all-metal armoured Junkers. Like many of these things, it rather depends upon just what you mean - but the Ju87s went out to Spain to replace the He51s carrying out the same missions. Even in WW2 the Hs123 was considered as more a CAS type than the Ju87, but it rather depends.... Anyway, if no-one has thought of anything earlier than the Ju87A, I hope I've at least provided some ideas. Hi guys, only stated that the JU 87 was the first as it was the first (along with the 123) truly designed for the CAS role,& not a fighter adapted with bomb racks... the span of the GB covers first world war types over the trenches too. Andy
Chris Jephcott Posted August 11, 2012 Posted August 11, 2012 Tackling a Special Hobby kit is always deserving of a special award for bravery. I look forward to seeing this develop
Prenton Posted August 17, 2012 Author Posted August 17, 2012 Tackling a Special Hobby kit is always deserving of a special award for bravery. I look forward to seeing this develop Well, Chris, you were right about that. Lots of etch bits to put on in the cockpit, and a fair bit of flash on the smaller bits. Here is a shot of the start of the etch (apart from the odd Eduard seatbelt, this was/will be my first attempt at using etch bits and pieces). The gunner/navigator's seat frame is on the left, with the etch seat framework above on a piece of blutack ready for the superglue (and a Euro cent coin beside it for scale comparison). To the top are two foot pedals/rests, with one folded carefully, and the other one waiting its turn. Beside it is the footpedal assembly, that goes on below the instrument panel. The two pedals have to be glued to the little arms at the bottom. The assembly had a lot of flash, and the arms in particular needed some thinning down on each side to make them more true to scale. The next shot shows the instrument panel (in plastic, thankfully), which is quite well detailed for this scale. It shoudl come up nice with a bit of silver drybrushing. The final shot for this posting is the assemblage of bits for the cockpit, including a radio (on the stick in the blutack), part of the cockpit floor with the pilot's seat, and various boxes etc for the gunner/navigator. Also there is the completed gunner/navigator's seat and the footpedal assembly, a roll-over bar (that will sit between the pilot and gunner/navigator's sections), as well as a scratch built bulkhead and some wire for the side panel (photos in my references show a prominent thick cable running between the two sections). I have also painted up the seatbelts, and some levers for the cockpit sides, while still on the etch part. Most are painted in RLM 02, which is the correct colour for these early birds. Thanks for looking. Philip
Dermo245 Posted August 18, 2012 Posted August 18, 2012 Nice start Philip, look forward to seeing this one. Dermot
Prenton Posted August 26, 2012 Author Posted August 26, 2012 More progress reported:- Work on the cockpit etch proceeds. Here are the fuselage sides before the addition of the etch, after a heavy weathering session (these birds would have got a bit of time in the Spanish sun, flying from dusty airfields, and I reckon that the erks would not have had much time to clean up after the pilots in those rough conditions.) And after it (including some wire for the prominent cable) and painting up the details. Nice (if very intricate) etch wheel fitted fine with a tiny drop of superglue. The etched navigator / gunner's seat in place, and seatbelts put on. The item on the far left appears to be a open "bin", into which presumably used ammo belts etc were put. I have tried to simulate this by painting in a dark blop in the middle, to signify the empty bin. At the scale and given that it will be well below the canopy, I imagine this effect might work.....that is, if it can even be seen. and with the roll bar, radio and a bit of weathering / scuffing. This afternoon I will put it all together onto the side of the fuselage, and paint up the instrument panel. Thanks for looking. Philip
Prenton Posted August 26, 2012 Author Posted August 26, 2012 Some more - the cockpit assemblage has been put onto the side of the fuselage, and the intrument panel has been drybrushed with silver and the dials given little drops of future. More tomorrow. Philip
Prenton Posted September 5, 2012 Author Posted September 5, 2012 After that delay....and in the knowledge that time is ticking by towards the end of the GB, and that there will be fun coming along doing the three colour camo on the upper surfaces and fuselage, I can report progress. The fuselage has been closed and the wings put on. A fair amount of fettling and a LOT of filling after, I have given it a primer coat. The wing to fuselage fit is poor - quite a gap, particularly on one side. As was said earlier - what do you expect from a Special Hobby kit? The primer has allowed me to see that a few more areas need to be filled, not least of which is around the oil cooler below the engine. I also spent an evening filling the hole in the wing for the wing light. Filler in the gaps on either side, and a shim of plasticard in the centre, then painted RLM 02, it's ready for a tiny circle of foil before putting on the transparency/cover in due course. (Sorry about the lack of focus - the thing is so small that it's at the limit of the macro on my camera!) Thanks for looking. Philip
Neal Posted September 6, 2012 Posted September 6, 2012 That's a great build, thanks for sharing your experience with photoetch
Prenton Posted September 20, 2012 Author Posted September 20, 2012 After a short break of a week or two (preparing models and other stuff for the Irish Nationals, held last weekend), I had a chance this week to do a bit more. The lower surfaces were sprayed with Tamiya RLM 65. No problems. Then I decided to use the Xtracrylic brand of paints, which had RLM 61, 62 and 63, since there are no corresponding shades in the Tamiya range, and I didn't relish the idea of mixing paints. Bad mistake! The first spray, of RLM 63 on the upper surfaces went fine, and the paint looked great. It's slightly satiny in finish. However, it showed a couple of imperfections that I had not seen when I put on the primer, so it was necessary to do a bit of sanding and do another coat. So much so good. I then decided, as the camo pattern is a little complex, to try for the paper and bluetack method for masking purposes. I managed this in some places, and used Tamiya tape elsewhere. The experiment didn't quite work out..... While the tamiya tape masking worked fine (just the odd touch up needed, which is no problem), I will not use the paper and bluetack method again with this paint. As you can see, the patterns didn't full match up (my fault - perhaps the photocopier magnification wasn't spot on). However, what is worse is that I discovered that the Xtracrylic paints and blutack do not work well together. When I peeled off the paper pieces and the blue tack underneath, bits of the paint came off with the bluetack! (I know it wasn't because one coat was wet or anything, as the bits that came off were from different colours, done a day apart). Ho Hum.... Lesson learnt - mixing up dependable Tamiya paints is a better idea. So last night I decided that a re-paint is going to be necessary. First thing was to Future what is already on the upper surfaces, then, once this was dry, mask in order to paint the white wingtips - using (you guessed it) Tamiya! This is where I am now. I will post more when I have the mixes done, and the painting re-done.... Thanks for looking.... Philip
CliffB Posted September 20, 2012 Posted September 20, 2012 Looking very nice Philip, despite the paint problems you've had . I must admit that I regularly use Xtracrylic paints (and Tamiya for that matter), and have never had any problems. Fingers crossed for the future! Cheers Cliff
Adam Maas Posted September 23, 2012 Posted September 23, 2012 One tip if using blutack and more fragile paints is to use a primer coat of some sort, I use Tamiya XF19 extensively for this when shooting Vallejo or Italieri paints, or you can use a dedicated primer. The primer helps the colour coats adhere better and prevents paint lifting.
Prenton Posted September 27, 2012 Author Posted September 27, 2012 (edited) One tip if using blutack and more fragile paints is to use a primer coat of some sort, I use Tamiya XF19 extensively for this when shooting Vallejo or Italieri paints, or you can use a dedicated primer. The primer helps the colour coats adhere better and prevents paint lifting. Thanks Adam I had indeed used primer, but the primer was Xtracrylic's version of RLM 65 on the whole thing. Bad mistake, cause it lifted. Should have gone for the Tamiya, as you suggest. Seems to work better. Even coats of Future didn't prevent the bluetack from lifting off the paint. Tamiya paints for future builds is the lesson. Thanks! Anyhow, I have to bow out from the GB at this stage, as time has caught me out and there is really no way I can finish it at this stage.....too much time getting models finished for the IPMS Ireland Nationals over the past number of weeks (I did win a bronze medal for an OOB Eduard Hellcat in the competition), plus preparing for family holiday to the US starting next week. I will be back for the Interwar Group Build tho', when I get back from "New England in the Fall". Best of luck to those who have actually finished this GB! Cheers, Philip Edited September 27, 2012 by Prenton
Adam Maas Posted September 30, 2012 Posted September 30, 2012 Note you just need the Tamiya paint for the primer, the other paints work well as long as they have something to stick to, and plastic won't do, so they will lift if they don't have a primer underneath (as what happened with the Xtracrylic RLM 65 you used as an undercoat here). Tamiya's formulation seems to be something of a coloured acrylic primer rather than a pure colour coat so it sticks wonderfully to plastic and is a great base for other brands and prevents them from lifting (or at least lifting easily).
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