AnonymousDFB1 Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 All reference material in here please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 As this was found useful during the F-14 STGB, I am thinking of adding over the time a list of colours used in the various schemes worn by the F-104. Now this is a bit more difficult to do for the Starfighter than it was for the tomcat due to very different number of users, but I hope that slowly, and with the help of everyone, we'll be able to put together enough information to cover at least the basics... The same applies to a description of the various variants: I'll start myself, but any even small bit of information is welcome and will be added to the original post. Of course, any info about books, links and anything else is welcome and if you have anything, please post it here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 (edited) F-104 Variants Here's a list of the different variants of the F-104. As we are modellers here, I'm also adding some info on the availability of kits for the various versions. I'm sure that I'll forget a lot of details in this first list so feel free to add more information ! XF-104: 2 prototypes powered by J-65 engines (the US version of the Armstrong Siddeley Sapphire). They had a shorter fuselage, elliptical section intakes with no shock cone and a different exhaust area compared to the later versions. They also had a different nose gear arrangement. Not easy to build starting from existing kits, and not really represented in model form in the past YF-104: 17 pre-production aircrafts powered by the definitive J-79 engine. These have the definitive type of fuselage, intakes with shock cones, definitive nose gear and most of the features of the production starfighter. In model form there's no kit of the YF, but it can be easily made by removing the ventral fin (not present in these aircrafts) from the kit of an F-104C F-104A: the first production variant. Introduces a number of features of which the only visible ones are the ventral fins and the arresting hook under the rear fuselage. Most aircrafts had the gun faired over as this had several teething troubles and was found unreliable. Italeri has a box dedicated to the F-104A but this variant can easily be made from any box of the F-104C F-104C: more powerful and robust variant of the A, this introduced two hard points under the wings and the possibility of using an external refuelling probe. During service, 2 underfuselage sidewinder launcher rails were introduced. This version is available from several manufacturers: in 1/72 the best one is the revell/monogram kit, with the esci/italeri kit a decent second. In 1/48 hasegawa is the best but the monogram kit can still be valid (even with raised panel lines). Hasegawa is IIRC the only choice in 1/32. F-104G: the most common variant of the Starfighter, developed as a multi-role combat aircraft for NATO countries. It's completely redesigned internally and externally is characterised by the larger tail and rudder. It also introduces the upward firing ejection seat, Lockheed C2 initially then replaced in some air forces by the MB Q.7. Many aircrafts have larger wheels and bulged main wheel well doors. In model form it's been available from many manufacturers. The best around are: 1/72: hasegawa first, then revell (very close). Not bad is the old esci, no reboxed by Italeri 1/48: hasegawa. The old monogram is not bad but with raised panel lines. The esci kit is 3rd but OOP 1/32: guess what... hasegawa again ! With the revell kit not too bad. Italeri has announced a new kit for this year, but I doubt it will be released before the end of our STGB 1/144: revell (a small but great kit) Not all the kits include the larger wheels and builged doors. Many German F-104G were retrofitted with the longer F-104S exhaust. This is only included in the 1/72 and 1/48 hasegawa kits CF-104: initially externally identical to the F-104G although the gun was faired over as the aircrafts were used for nuclear strike only. In the '70s they received the gun and a set of ECM antennas (one under the nose, 2 under the exhaust area). Thin wheels and no bulges on the door. In model form it can be built from any F-104G. However the ECM antennas are not available everywhere: they appeared in the Ertl reissue of the esci 1/72 kit and are included in the 1/72 hasegawa F-104J/CF-104 box. Leading Edge includes these in some of their decal sheets. Aeroclub had a set too. F-104J: a simplified version for Japan, externally identical to the G with thin wheels and no bulges on the door. Again it can be built from any F-104G box F-104S: version designed specifically for Italy (and license built in Italy) based on the G (with wide tyres and builged doors). It uses a more powerful J-79 version and differs from the G in the following details: - longer exhaust - larger intakes with auxiliary doors - 2 extra ventral fins beside the standard one. - the central ventral fin is smaller then on the F-104G with the same length at the base but a sharper angle of the leading edge - 4 pylons under each wing - adds a few different antennas (that have changed over time) The F-104S has been built in 2 variants: - F-104S-CI: interceptor armed with the Sparrow missile. No gun (the space for the ammo is used for the Sparrow related avionics) - F-104S-CB: fighter bomber with the gun and no Sparrows To be continued.... Edited August 16, 2012 by Giorgio N 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radalt Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 It must be my destiny – last night the EBay fairy produced a 1/48 Lindberg F104C arrived and then this GB popped up. Never dun one before as I am new to the forum. Bit disappointed with the general standard of the kit for a start the Vulcan cannon is missing! And the gap on the fuselage joint has to be seen to be believed. Unfortunately one half of the wing tip tank is missing oh well best look upon it as a challenge. Any help/ideas would be much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jens Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 There are a number of F-104 articles here: F-104 articles Both of models and detailed description of the real ones. I hope they will be inspirational and helpful. Jens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffreyK Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 (edited) To further those detail and spec list on the early Starfighters, I hope you don't mind me chiming in on this (when referring to models, I only speak for 1:48, I know nothing about other scales...): XF-104: 2 prototypes powered by J-65 engines (the US version of the Armstrong Siddeley Sapphire). They had a shorter fuselage, elliptical section intakes with no shock cone and a different exhaust area compared to the later versions. They also had a different nose gear arrangement. Not easy to build starting from existing kits, and not really represented in model form in the past YF-104: 17 pre-production aircrafts powered by the definitive J-79 engine. These have the definitive type of fuselage, intakes with shock cones, definitive nose gear and most of the features of the production starfighter. In model form there's no kit of the YF, but it can be easily made by removing the ventral fin (not present in these aircrafts) from the kit of an F-104C Many of those were later brought up to F-104A standard, but without the ventral fin. The lower starboard electronics bay cover had an "NACA" style air scoop, the panel looked different from the one of the "C" model and onward: (image from Primeportal) YF-104A's had the downward firing C-1 ejection seat which means the layout of the canopy fittings and ejection seat rails is very different as the canopy wasn't blown off at ejection: The gun gas vents and the shell ejector chute in the lower forward fuselage were also different from the ones found on "C" and later models: F-104A: the first production variant. Introduces a number of features of which the only visible ones are the ventral fins and the arresting hook under the rear fuselage. Most aircrafts had the gun faired over as this had several teething troubles and was found unreliable. Italeri has a box dedicated to the F-104A but this variant can easily be made from any box of the F-104C Everything above mentioned for the YF-104A also counts for the F-104A (different avionics panel, different vents, different seat and canopy layout). With the introduction of the "C" model, many "A"'s were fitted with the now more reliable Vulcan gun and the less lethal C-2 upward firing ejection seat. Hence the gun cover was removed and the cockpit and canopy internals changed. For example were the two explosive charges on the cockpit sills introduced that blew off the canopy, also the canopy air tubes changed to their "normal" layout. [b]F-104C:[/b] more powerful and robust variant of the A, this introduced two hard points under the wings and the possibility of using an external refuelling probe. During service, 2 underfuselage sidewinder launcher rails were introduced. This version is available from several manufacturers: in 1/72 the best one is the revell/monogram kit, with the esci/italeri kit a decent second. In 1/48 hasegawa is the best but the monogram kit can still be valid (even with raised panel lines). Hasegawa is IIRC the only choice in 1/32. Apparently, the F-104A also had, at least in theory, the underwing pylons. I don't think I've seen any pictures of it though. During deployment in Vietnam, F-104C's were seen with the unusual, and not recommended (for stability), loadout of two under-wing tanks and two sidewinders on the wing tips.... All F-104's except the Italian and German variants had the thin tyres, both with the early, smooth-face wheels and the later spoked type (examples for spoke type wheels and thin tyres are the Canadian and Japanese variants). That's all for now... Cheers Jeffrey Edited August 2, 2012 by JeffreyK 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Great stuff Jeffrey, thanks for posting ! This is exactly the kind of information I'm hoping we can provide in this thread. Please chime in whenever you feel !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffreyK Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 (edited) Thanks! I forgot to mention two important external difference: YF-104A and F-104A's had stiffener plates on the cockpit sides, it's very visible in the first photo above, the NMF F-104. The fuselage was strengthened internally from the "C" model onwards so the plate wasn't necessary any longer. Also, the engine hot air vents on the upper, aft, port fuselage side were different on YF-104A's and early F-104A's: Note that later model F-104A's already had the subsequent standard layout of both vent louvres directly next to each other. Edited August 3, 2012 by JeffreyK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Starling Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Very useful thread. I have 1/48 starfighter in my stash. I'll use your info when ready to build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GForceSS Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Here are some F-104D landing gear photos I took a few weeks ago at a local museum. The front gear doors were unevenly open and I saw the attaching rod on the right door was disconnected causing it to hang straight down. Hope someone finds these useful. Milt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jens Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 These pictures might be useful too (Danish CF-104D walk-around): http://www.amarc.dk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=91:rdaf-cf-104d-starfighter-rt-654-walk-around&catid=27:jet-aircraft-pictures&Itemid=31 I also have some RoCAF F-104 pictures here: http://www.amarc.dk/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&id=27:jet-aircraft-pictures&Itemid=31&layout=default Jens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffreyK Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 The pictures in my 1st thread above have disappeared...but in the 2nd they're there ...!? Must be the new forum, something went wrong there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 This site http://www.starfighters.nl/ is extremely useful for Starfighter stuff, hope it's of use. Wez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffreyK Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 For in-depth detail walk around pictures galore, visit http://www.aircraftwalkarounds.be/Starfighterpage_English.html . Plenty of everything you need for your 104 projects. Also, there's this wonderful site, http://www.rolfferch.de/F104G/index.html by an ex F-104G mechanic, showing lots of technical, historical and anecdotal info. Many pictures of Starfighter OP's too. It's almost all in German though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpc7676 Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Anyone got some goods pics of a CAF F-104D seat? Some photos show alot of black, some show little, and the instructions say none, so any references would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 (edited) F-104 Colours I'll try to add here as much information as possible about the colour schemes used on the F-104. As this aircraft was used by many air forces, this might not be easy, but I'm sure that we'll be able to build a decent list. I'll focus on the standard schemes, as moving into the non standard ones would mean checking a couple of hundred schemes at least... Everybody's contribution is welcome !!!! USAF: the aircrafts entered service in natural metal. However natural metal aircrafts have white upper wings and grey FS 16473 lower wings. This is true of practically every natural metal Starfighter ! The F-104C was then repainted in the SEA scheme with upper surfaces in green FS 34079, green FS 34102, tan FS 30219. Lower surfaces were in grey FS 36622. Germany: Luftwaffe: initially in natural metal with white upper/grey lower wings. Then camouflaged with top surfaces in a splinter scheme of green RAL 6014 and grey RAL 7012. Lower surfaces in RAL 9006. The final camo scheme was an overall schem in green RAL 6003, dark grey RAL 7021 and green FS 34079 Marineflieger: upper surfaces in grey RAL 7012 and lower surfaces in grey RAL 9006 For both, the radome is in grey FS 16473. Many aircrafts had bands on the wingtip tanks in orange RAL 2005 Netherlands: initially in overall grey RAL 7001. Later camouflaged in splinter scheme with uppersurfaces in green RAL 6014 and dark grey RAL 7012. Lower surfaces in RAL 7001. The antiglare panel could be black or green. The radome is always in light grey (likely FS 16473) To be continued.... Edited August 16, 2012 by Giorgio N 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 (edited) Just a pointer regarding the CF-104 ECM fairings for under the jet pipe area/ rear fuselage and on the nose, Leading Edge Decals include these as resin additions to the appropriate decal sets in 1/72nd and 1/48th. The Black/white checkerboard 441 squadron sets in these two scales are available again for example. You can order direct or from Hannants. Edited August 16, 2012 by Paul J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Thanks Paul, post edited to reflect this (and I added the aeroclub ECM fairings too, although I believe these are long OOP) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyGol Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 This may help. http://www.wingsovereurope.com/belgian_military_jets.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 (edited) What colour are the interiors of the intakes? Silver or white? Detail & Scale show silver, Lock-On is a bit vague. Wez Edited August 20, 2012 by Wez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 What colour are the interiors of the intakes? Silver or white? Detail & Scale show silver, Lock-On is a bit vague. Wez Silver, at least on the Lockheed built aircrafts... but I believe they were all silver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Silver, at least on the Lockheed built aircrafts... but I believe they were all silver Thanks Giorgio! Wez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintsPhil Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 anyone fancy suggesting a colour for the inside edges of the flaps and control surfaces? Where they meet the wing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 anyone fancy suggesting a colour for the inside edges of the flaps and control surfaces? Where they meet the wing On the pictures I have of these parts on Italian F-104s, the inside edges are in the same external surfaces colour of the flap in that area. Not sure if it's a common feature through all the user's aircrafts though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffreyK Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 YZC on natural metal planes (a fact I overlooked on my two NMF F-104 models...doh!), camouflage colour (wing underside) on painted planes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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