John Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Oxford and Cambridge? I remember them, built by Morris IIRC... John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spence Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 So the question is - if there are so many online builds that would seem to be "printable quality" why do so few submit them to print mags? Ergo - editors go ask them.Cheers Jonners its not your fault that you went to the wrong place too. Jon - we do. They are then promised, but never arrive... Seriously though, this is not as easy as it sounds. Creating a build thread on a website is one thing, turning it into an article that can be printed, something entirely different. The thread often involves the posting of short bites of material over a few months, whereas the article will involve far more work to produce something of reasonable length. Just count the number of words in an average thread; there maybe a few hundred. Then consider an article where the word-count needs to be several thousand. It isn't easy convincing modellers to go that extra step to convert one into the other - even when you tell them that for that extra day's work, they may be paid almost £200... Spence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Bryon Posted July 26, 2012 Author Share Posted July 26, 2012 Hi Jon - I wasn't meaning to denigrate anyone who does what you do, far from it. Oops. Just read what I wrote and I realised the tone was all wrong. (At least I'm not a magazine editor, eh?) I didn't read any criticism into your post; just giving an alternative viewpoint. To be fair to some editors, I know they they *do* approach people they come across online. Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Kunac-Tabinor Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Jon - we do. They are then promised, but never arrive... Spence Guilty as charged M'lud. You never mentioned £200 notes though Jonners, contrite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junco Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 I only buy mags when there is enough in one to be either 1. of interest or 2. to be really good value. SAM is the one I buy the most now and others not at all! So he is doing something right in my eyes! Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Bryon Posted July 26, 2012 Author Share Posted July 26, 2012 contrite Interesting you use that word, given the topic of this thread (see second paragraph of said editorial). The question is, do you know what it means? (lots of smiley faces) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abacus Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Oxford and Cambridge? I remember them, built by Morris IIRC...John ................and Austin. Christ, we are old! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 (edited) Talk about measure twice cut once. I was just up in the newsagents and to see what all this cofuffle is about I bought the said magazine. Only to find its the august edition not july So thats why it was written to get every nosey dosey non subscriber to go and buy it and boost this months sales...simples Someone owes me £4.50 Edited July 26, 2012 by eagle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Someone owes me £4.50 Belay that .....its got an article about Navy lynx......................Bargain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ptmvarsityfan Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 I still miss the old SAM format. In fact I get more pleasure re-reading the old ones, with their fuzzy black & white photos, than the new format, however successful it is. The old format felt like modelling amongst old friends, warts and all, and I still refer to them. The new format feels like celebrity and angst and can be alienating in what is written. The issues I received before not renewing my subscription sit in a pile and might as well be in the bin. Simple as that.Some may love the new format. Good for them. To me the real SAM is as dead and buried as Scale Models and Frog. It's like the pub on the corner that still has the same name on the sign but has changed beyond all recognition and attracts a completely different clientele. I can remember when I first discovered it, several thousand miles from England, and how much I liked the format. When the new format magazines came along with their increasing emphasis on big colour photos and large scale, museum quality, celebrity modelling SAM remained for a while like an old friend. Slightly old-fashioned by comparison but familiar and comforting. In its revamp to compete with the new wave that followed it somehow lost its soul together with its original USP. Editorials are supposed to reflect the collective viewpoint of the magazine towards aspects of its subject matter, either generally or in respect of a specific topic, often related to that issue's contents or current news, or sometimes to pose questions about them, even controversially. Since the writing in a magazine is essentially the "glue" that holds all the visuals together and the editorial kicks it all off I think good writing is important. Poorly written articles in a magazine dedicated to a special interest seem a contradiction in terms. But let's face it the prevailing concept that all change must perforce be good and always result in something better is not limited to modelling magazines. Absolutely agree with everything Nick says Cheers, Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigsty Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 I was just up in the newsagents and to see what all this cofuffle is about I bought the said magazine. You mean, you didn't just stand there and read it without paying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 I still miss the old SAM format. In fact I get more pleasure re-reading the old ones, with their fuzzy black & white photos, than the new format, however successful it is. The old format felt like modelling amongst old friends, warts and all, and I still refer to them. The new format feels like celebrity and angst and can be alienating in what is written. The issues I received before not renewing my subscription sit in a pile and might as well be in the bin. Simple as that.Some may love the new format. Good for them. To me the real SAM is as dead and buried as Scale Models and Frog. It's like the pub on the corner that still has the same name on the sign but has changed beyond all recognition and attracts a completely different clientele. I can remember when I first discovered it, several thousand miles from England, and how much I liked the format. When the new format magazines came along with their increasing emphasis on big colour photos and large scale, museum quality, celebrity modelling SAM remained for a while like an old friend. Slightly old-fashioned by comparison but familiar and comforting. In its revamp to compete with the new wave that followed it somehow lost its soul together with its original USP. Editorials are supposed to reflect the collective viewpoint of the magazine towards aspects of its subject matter, either generally or in respect of a specific topic, often related to that issue's contents or current news, or sometimes to pose questions about them, even controversially. Since the writing in a magazine is essentially the "glue" that holds all the visuals together and the editorial kicks it all off I think good writing is important. Poorly written articles in a magazine dedicated to a special interest seem a contradiction in terms. But let's face it the prevailing concept that all change must perforce be good and always result in something better is not limited to modelling magazines. Oh dear, I see the floodgates have broken. All of what Nick said above, basically. I buy magazines solely for their content, which in my definition means not big pictures of models, wide margins and dodgy profiles but information, photographic or factual, which I do not otherwise have. As an illustration I actually bought the issue in question (NB, dear editor!) because it had an excellent and quite long historical article by the Aviaology man on RCAF Beaufighters in Coastal Command and an associated superdetail of the Hasegawa kit. (I shall be mightily peeved if it should turn out to be a rehash of the reputedly superb instructions with the Aviaology transfer sheet, but I digress). So to me the editorial has always been largely irrelevant to my buying decision. Nor are moaning SAM editorials unprecedented: I remember a number from Uncle Alan Hall roughly on how the modelling community didn't deserve him, which got equally tiresome after a while despite his immense personal contribution to the hobby's development. Routinely and consciously antagonising even a sector of your potential customers in an increasingly competitive environment does seem a bold and innovative marketing strategy, though. And let's try extending the argument that those who criticise magazine articles ought to try doing it themselves to, say, eating in a restaurant to see how ridiculous it is: I am paying good money to people with a pretended expertise for a product or service which I ought to be able to expect to be a certain quality. If it is not of that quality, I am unlikely to be moved by sob stories from the restaurant owner about how difficult running a restaurant is or the chef asking me why I don't cook my own b****y food. I'm reminded of the Monty Python sketch where the man takes his clothes to a laundry/dry cleaner's and gets told it's only fair that he puts a vest in soak in exchange. Seahawk with a degree from Cambridge, not Oxford (perish the thought). And not in English (perish the thought). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radleigh Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 (edited) Hi Mark, just for fun..."And yes, having studied English at university, some of the rather basic errors in spelling and grammar that seep into some of the articles and magazines these days are inexcusable and utterly annoying." Sorry, but I couldn't resist! Spence Funny you done that, I saw the word grammar and laughed. I don't buy any mags, not got the time nor money for them though I would love to, having not the mags can someone explain what the problem is? I don't get it.. Edited July 26, 2012 by Radleigh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spence Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Guilty as charged M'lud. You never mentioned £200 notes though Jonners, contrite Hey mate - we always pay for articles, I thought that was implicit!!! Spence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 (edited) I was just up in the newsagents and to see what all this cofuffle is about I bought the said magazine. Aha, thank you for helping me understand the bold and innovative marketing strategy. Edited July 26, 2012 by Seahawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 I don't put that much weight on accuracy issues. I can't reasonably expect the author to know everything. I simply make it my practice to ask on the forums to get specialist advice on accuracy. So that largely doesn't bother me too much...until we come to models that I'm particularly interested in with well-established errors that go unmentioned (e.g. Hobbyboss F-111s, A-7s, Tornados, etc.). Then I can get quite miffed ;-) What I don't like is when people try to apologise for the manufacturers. This often happens when it comes to accuracy (the 'it looks like...' argument, or 'I am not a rivet counter...'), but also in other areas. For example, in the magazine we are discussing, the justification for Hasegawa charging £70 for a 1/48 TA-4 just sounds ridiculous. Jon Yup agree with what you say. I must admit I'm a bit more bothered by accuracy issues though. One of the problems I suspect is that the reviewers are not always experts in their fields and that's how things get missed. I can only comment on what I've been told by a fellow modeller who was asked if he would like to do some mag reviews, his field of expertise being WWII RAF aircraft in 1/48. So what do they send him? A postwar US Navy Jet in 1/72! As he told me all he could do was comment on how it actually built up. Of course there is always this nagging suspicion that mags are ignored the errors, costs etc. of kits as if they make too much fuss about them the review samples (and possibly advertising) might dry up? Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greycap Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 I think that sam has too many pictures of finished models and not enough inbuild photos otherwse its ok for me ,not as good as sami for the most part. cheers greycap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyC Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 (edited) One of the problems I suspect is that the reviewers are not always experts in their fields and that's how things get missed. The more annoying errors are simple editorial ones - I don't object so much to the grammar etc. To me wrongly captioned pictures and repeated captions (which smacks of a hurried cut and paste job) REALLY annoy me. All the magazines do it and it seems (to my eye) are doing it more often too - that's why I said earlier, I think Jay has to take a step back and look at the sub-editors employed, not so much the contributors Edited July 26, 2012 by AndyC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spence Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Of course there is always this nagging suspicion that mags are ignored the errors, costs etc. of kits as if they make too much fuss about them the review samples (and possibly advertising) might dry up?Andy Some may do - others, I can assure you, do no such thing, despite what some may think... Spence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Bryon Posted July 26, 2012 Author Share Posted July 26, 2012 Seahawk with a degree from Cambridge, not Oxford (perish the thought). And not in English (perish the thought). Blimey, all crawling out of the woodwork now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tripehound Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Haven't read it so can't comment on the specifics, but there's clearly something about putting together a model magazine that messes with it's editor's head. A few years ago, a former magazine editor asked for feedback in an editorial, which I provided by email, in what I felt was a constructive and polite way. And basically got my head ripped of for being an ignorant, whingeing ingrate. To carry the responsibility for the content in any publication is difficult, and a bit isolating. You will never be able to eradicate all errors, or please all the people all the time, and the near-constant criticism sparks understandable paranoia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard M Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Q. How do you make a small fortune writing modelling articles for magazines? A. Start with a large fortune.... Having heard the oft repeated cry of why don't you actually submit articles to the magazines then, I tried just that. Interesting experience, either you hear nothing back at all, get fobbed off month after month, or you do all the work and submit a few articles only for them to languish in the ether and never get published. I did get two published and I did enjoy the experience BUT... I appreciate editors have deadlines and standards to be met, and I can understand that they would tend to rely on people known to them or regulars, but when you do all the work and submit everything to the requested standards and for it to not get published, you have to wonder if it really is worth the hassle. It is a lot of work to do the articles, research take pictures, edit it all together, proof read, put it in the required format etc etc, all with no guarantee it will actually appear in the magazine and actually earn you a payment. For me the high possibility of a lack of any sort of return made it hard to justify investing my time in doing it - I just chalked it up to experience and moved on. I know it's understandable to have more articles than needed in case anything drops out or fails to meet a deadline, but as the writers only get paid when something appears in print, that means inevitably that some are going to do all the work and not get any money for it. I can't think of too many other occupations where this happens and people would put up with it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Kunac-Tabinor Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 (edited) Hey mate - we always pay for articles, I thought that was implicit!!!Spence LOL mate . No - I thought, truly, it was for the pride of it. I suppose it we, as humans, didnt have something to whine about, life would be that little bit duller. I mean look at the weather- glorious, and already we are getting, "it's too bleedin' hot". Ah well Jonners Edited July 26, 2012 by Jon Kunac-Tabinor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Jon - we do. They are then promised, but never arrive... Guilty as charged too I know you lot love to have a bitch and a moan about some magazines more than others, but I would suggest that you contact the editor directly firstly in order to get your views straight to the horse's mouth so to speak. It's the only way to make your feelings known with some degree of certainty that they're going to be read. Now for the bad news... I'm going to close this down, for a number of reasons - partly because Mr Laverty is a (dormant) member of Britmodeller, and we don't advocate personal attacks on other members, even though most negative comments have been polite or well veiled. The other part is that we generally discourage bitch-fests about magazines, and for that reason we also don't review magazines on here. Magazine editors are people too, and seeing someone having a go at you, your parentage or your professional life will hurt all but the most hard hearted. Final word - email the editor of whatever mag you have a problem with and tell them politely your feelings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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