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hi guys. Im looking for a set of drawings, preferably 1/144th scale for the rc-135 Rivet Joint. Any ideas where i can find a set?

cheers

steve

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hi guys. Im looking for a set of drawings, preferably 1/144th scale for the rc-135 Rivet Joint. Any ideas where i can find a set?

cheers

steve

These are possibilities, not definite leads:

1. an article by Jon Lake called "US RC-135 Fleet variants" in the Aug-Sep 2008 Combat Aircraft (issue 4 of volume 9, pp.38-47)

2. relevant portion of this book by Martin Streetly:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/ELECTRONIC-WARFARE...234&sr=1-13

3. an article, probably covering the same ground he did for Jane's Defence Weekly. Sorry, don't know the date: maybe 15 years or more back now.

Doubt if any of them are to 1/144 but a few minutes with a photocopier should sort that.

Edited by Seahawk
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Is there any particular RC-135 you are looking for? Reason I ask that is there are at four major RC variants in recent times (and a plethora of other sub types going back to the 1960s). You've got Cobra Ball, Cobra Eye, Combat Sent and Rivet Joint. Rivet Joint is the one most commonly associated with RC-135s as they include the classic features such as the antenna cheeks, the big nose and a slew of antennas mounted where ever there is a good surface to stick them. But at the same time, there have been at least 10 sub-variants as the antenna configurations change periodically to accomodate new equipment and different scanning bands. So drawings (if they exist) are only going to be a start of the puzzle that is the RC-135.

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Sounds like Rivet Joint is what you are looking for then. BTW, the cheeks are not SLAR. They have sensors in them (and no, I do NOT know what is in them exactly since I don't work for the Air Force). But Rivet Joint uses passive sensors, while a radar produces an active signal. Now is there a particular time period you are looking for? As I said, constant evolution of the airframes and antenna packages still makes things a moving target.

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... Now is there a particular time period you are looking for? As I said, constant evolution of the airframes and antenna packages still makes things a moving target.

That was the merit of the Jon Lake article: IIRC it did capture various aerial configurations, either of different aircraft or evolution over time - that was the main/only reason I bought the magazine. Suspect the Martin Streetly articles did as well - Martin was punctilious in his research - but probably just one or two snapshots: they were published during the Cold War when there was a degree of official coyness about these things.

Afraid I'm away from my references at the moment and can't check any of this.

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thanks for the responses guys, i appreciate your time and input.

any era would be a starting point, i know the antenna and other lumps and bumps were a moveable feast..i had no ides of the minefield i was walking into

steve

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The fact of the matter is, there are simply no drawings out there that are remotely accurate. They just don't exist. There has been far more inaccurate information published on the RC-135 than accurate information, and much of it is *wildly* inaccurate. A good example is the old "SLAR cheeks" chestnut. There has only ever been one single RC airframe with SLAR, that being RC-135E 62-4137. As noted, the RC fleet's external appearance has changed markedly, often from year to year.

You really need to decide what time period and what specific type of RC you want to do, then go from there.

Edited by Jennings Heilig
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<deep breath>...ok heres what im looking to do (i think) bear with me as im certainly no 707/135 expert.

im looking to do do an RC-135 of some kind, with the original thin engine type, not the cfm-56(?) type. I want to use the slab sided forward fuselage bulges, i assume that they are SLAR but of course might not be..

something along these lines

http://www.airliners.net/photo/USA---Air/B...fa7349b4d5a8387

(thanks to Airliners.net)

Are all the noses elongated like this example? As i say im certainly no expert and i realise that there were a LOT of variations. The picture was taken at Mildenhall at 1988, according to the caption.

many thanks for putting up with the daft questions

steve

There has only ever been one single RC airframe with SLAR, that being RC-135E 62-4137....would this be the 'Rivet Amber' aircraft, sadly lost?

Edited by kspriss
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Koku-Fan/Burindo Famous Aircraft of the World. #43 KC & C-135 Series has some plans, but with the usual caveat about the accuracy of plans.

Best wishes,

Grant

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constant evolution of the airframes and antenna packages still makes things a moving target.

LOL! "moving target"... better words never spoken about the RC's!

You really need to decide what time period and what specific type of RC you want to do, then go from there

Better yet, a specific airframe working from a good pic(s) of it at said "time period." These birds make chameleons jealous! :rofl:

I'm amazed that AMT even did the EC/RC variants when they did their kit. They could've just as easily released a KC-135E to maximize their mold and never messed with any of the ones that had different noses.

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I'm amazed that AMT even did the EC/RC variants when they did their kit. They could've just as easily released a KC-135E to maximize their mold and never messed with any of the ones that had different noses.

They could have, had Alan Griffith and myself not been involved in the development of the kit. We insisted on it :)

Koku-Fan/Burindo Famous Aircraft of the World. #43 KC & C-135 Series has some plans, but with the usual caveat about the accuracy of plans.

They're firmly and well into the "wildly inaccurate" category. Good bird cage liner material.

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There has only ever been one single RC airframe with SLAR, that being RC-135E 62-4137....would this be the 'Rivet Amber' aircraft, sadly lost?

Yep... The cheeks on other RC variants are the AEELS system, which is a receiver array, not a SLAR antenna. They don't go around emitting signals to advertise their whereabouts. Their job is to act as a vacuum cleaner, not to send out electrons to the bad guys.

So it sounds like you're looking for an RC-135V or W Rivet Joint circa 1980s. Fortunately there are GOBS of photos of them to be had on the web. You just have to look at the date. A give away (sort of) is the American flag on the tail. That was added to the Rivet Joint fleet starting in 1987. The tail number prior to 1991 (when SAC went away and the fighter mafia won the war) was five digits of equal height, with no "AF" in it.

Contrary to popular belief, the Rivet Joint fleet from the early 1980s on has been remarkably uniform from airframe to airframe. They've gone through many equipment upgrades, and antennas changed with regularity. But the RJ fleet *generally* looked very much alike across the V and W variants at any given moment in time. That's because the RJ fleet was interchangeable. The same airframe could fly from Offutt to Helinikon, Greece one week, then to Eielson AFB, Alaska the next, with totally different crews, and it accomplished exactly the same mission.

At that time, the V's still had the original taller, somewhat shorter (horizontal length) Martin cheeks on them. The W's always had the shorter (vertically), longer (horizontally) and somewhat more streamlined E-Systems cheeks. The latter have now been retrofitted to the V fleet.

The V's were built from the original RC-135C fleet, and as such had TF33s with turbocompressor hoods on #1, 2, and 4 engines. The W's were all modified C-135B transports, and had no t/c hoods on any engine pylons.

I could go on for days, but that should get you started...

J

PS: At the risk of blowing my own horn, this is the only reasonably accurate KC-135 drawing that's ever been done outside of Renton, Washington. I've been working on it for years (along with many variants). It's far from perfect, but the dimensions, shapes, and proportions are as accurate down to three decimal places as I can get them.

KC-135A.jpg

Edited by Jennings Heilig
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Don't buy the Historie & Collections book on the Boeing 707 & C-135 or you are liable to end up like me with 43 1/72 C-135s and 13 707s in your collection.

Like Jennings says, there are many errors in all of the references I have on the subject and it is important to research your specific aircraft.

Airliners.net is a terrific source for outstanding photos on many of the later 135s.

Now, Jennings - what is the radome diameter on the Big Crow II? I have begun fabricating one and it would help to have a definitive measurement as a starting point.

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Now, Jennings - what is the radome diameter on the Big Crow II? I have begun fabricating one and it would help to have a definitive measurement as a starting point.

Without structural drawings from the depot or the contractor who built the radome (don't hold your breath), it will be a good guess. What tail number are we talking about??

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right, decision made. Im going for one of the RC-135U models, before they were re-engined. This removes the need for scratchbuilding a hog nose, but i reckon i can do the tail mod.

Over to Jennings for any further pitfalls :)

Steve

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I am doing one in 72nd. I've got the cheek bits and will probably scratch the tail extension.....but I'm listening, what's in the conversion I might not have?

Steve

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You need the chin radome, wing tip radomes, tail radome, refueling pod mods, Martin cheeks, +/- towel rail antennas above the cheeks. Bullet fairing on the vertical fin, and lots of small antennas here and there.

For starters ;)

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Hi Steve the set comprises:-new nose,cheek fairings,radome,engine pylon fairings,rear fairing,wingtip fairing,tail fairing and fin fairing.all in resin cheers chris

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They could have, had Alan Griffith and myself not been involved in the development of the kit. We insisted on it :)

Mucho thanks to you and Alan! :speak_cool:

Is that the old Maintrack conversion?

If it is, the cheeks need to be replaced with the Spectre resin ones.

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