Kallisti Posted July 28, 2012 Author Share Posted July 28, 2012 You aren't wrong there! This is the result of two evenings work so far: I'm happy with the two on the left but the one on the right is going in the junk pile! The most difficult thing about these builds is getting the holes aligned. Just a fraction of a mm out and it mucks up the alignment. I'm thinking I'm going to have build a different jog to drill the holes AFTER I've assembled the bars as drilling before seems to produce just too much variation and this rate of progress is only barely deserving the name "progress"!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deacon Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 Let's face it mate,what you are attempting is just unbelievable and with every small step you get closer to finishing this build so is definately progress. This is looking stunning mate. Deacon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kallisti Posted July 29, 2012 Author Share Posted July 29, 2012 Thanks Deacon The Jig is Up!!! New construction jig after an idea came to me last night... Instead of drilling all the strips before assembly - assemble the frame and then drill each vertical using the jig!! The frame to the right is the first made this way and it was much easier, however there is a bit of wonkiness in the verticallity (cor I'm good at this lingo!) which I need to try to even out in the next one. Thats 3 of the 4 hull side plates built which is a good thing. The others are a bit smaller, although the turret ones have an extra bar for which I'll need to add another slot in my jig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousDFB1 Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 That's neat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kallisti Posted July 31, 2012 Author Share Posted July 31, 2012 (edited) Two days on and some more to report. First off, sadly that jig didn't work anything like as well as I expected. It was very diffciult to get the vertical bars truly vertical as can be seen from the two on the right here: At this point I was on the very of calling it a day and giving up, however I had one more idea on how to drill the bars so the holes lined up better and so created another, smaller - in fact tiny jig that supports the bar pieces and lets me measure the space between two holes and then gives me a good alignment to drill the next hole. This does mean that I've given up on trying to drill whole sequences of holes and switched back to one at a time. IT may take a bit longer but it is more accurate and in the long run faster as I make fewer mistakes and don't have to keep rebuilding pieces .As it stands, the two on the right in the above photo are not fit for anything except the spares/scrap box. The good news is that since I started using the new jigs, progress has accelerated so that now I have these pieces all done... The two pieces in lower left and lower right are in the process of having their holes drilled for the brass rod, but its nice to have finally got some good, even looking pieces so it has given me much encouragement to continue and return to the larger pieces. Now in the meantime I've been checking more photos of the bar armour in situ. Checking the Concord "British Army Battle Group" and the Tankograd Task Force Helmand, has made me realise that the plans I had before are still wrong... the front and rear plates are too narrow and also the wrong configuration. On the hull rear, there are three sets of 2 "column" bar armour, plus single columns either side, to make a total of 8 columns width. The hull front and turret rear has a single 6 column panel flanked by 2 singles. In my earlier drawing I had them all 6 columns wide in total. Thankfully, that doesn't make a difference to me yet as I haven't built that far. Its off I feel like I make a bit of progress, then get bogged down and stuck for a while, then make another small sprint forward! This time I feel much more positive and am enthused about moving forward! Edited July 31, 2012 by Kallisti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard E Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Watching this with some interest, you do realise that someone out there is working on an etched brass set which will be released the day after you call your model finished. Have you seen Concord's "British Armoured Battle Group" book, it's got some good pictures of the bar armour on the Scimitar and a 1/35th scale side profile drawing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kallisti Posted July 31, 2012 Author Share Posted July 31, 2012 Yes I've got that book but the profile is wrong - its missing the back of the hull and other inaccuracies - it seems there is at least 2 "standard" ways of arranging the bar armour on a Scimtar! I know of at least one company who are trying to produce an etch set, I've been comparing notes with them and we've learned a lot from each other, but they are not likely to have things ready for a few more weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousDFB1 Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Keep persevering you'll get there. Nice work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintsPhil Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 (edited) Wow you're in for the long haul here! It'll look awesone when you're done though so keep it up! Edited August 1, 2012 by SaintsPhil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 (edited) Another interesting thing is the Scimitar at Bovington in the Afghan section isn't actually a Scimitar - the top hull looks like a Scorpion - ie it has bolted engine covers rather than the covers with handles that appeared on later Scimitars, see here: I recall that it was originally a Sabre. And the bar armour was mocked up (accurately) by the museum itself using scrap! HTH Andy Edited August 2, 2012 by andym Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kallisti Posted August 4, 2012 Author Share Posted August 4, 2012 Well another few days go by and I am very happy to report some good progress, but rather than blather on, let me show you a photo: Its been a bit of a marathon effort to get these done - each hole for the vertical bars has been measured and drilled individually as it was the only way I could get anything like consistency in the spacing. Even with that, there is some variation, but within acceptable tolerances - well I think they are acceptable These are the successful pieces - there are a few more that got rejected and built again. Even some of the relatively simple single column pieces got ditched and done again as they were either too small or askew. All that is left is to make the corner pieces. These are a bit tricky as they are 14" wide on the outside but 11" wide on the inside, so I'll have to cut the ends at a 45 degree angle! That will be a job for tomorrow though as all this concentrated delicate work has given me a headache - well the CY and poly cement fumes might have contributed as well My god I might even get around to doing some painting! Gasp! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMC_Sherpa Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Look'n good my man. It's build like this that let me know, that while I may be insane, at least I'm not the only one Sherpa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kallisti Posted August 5, 2012 Author Share Posted August 5, 2012 Thanks Sherpa, this does make one a little crazy at times... thankfully there is the Olympics going on at the same time so there is always an interesting distraction when the insanity gets too much! 6 Gold medals for GB yesterday - best day we've had in over a Century woot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellzy Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Its looking a top job well done keep it up Les Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousDFB1 Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Hey, they look great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kallisti Posted August 6, 2012 Author Share Posted August 6, 2012 Thanks guys, its good to make progress and see a light at the end of the tunnel that isn't the oncoming train! I've redrawn the plans a couple of times since I last posted so here is the latest and I reckon probably the final version. (Click here for the full size version) I've been making the corner pieces and found that the 45 degree angle made assembly a lot more complicated! One thing I found of course is that the sides are thicker since they are on the angle and the 1.5 mm plastic strip didn't fit, so it was a quick dash into Reading yesterday to visit Modelzone and pick up some 2mm wide strips. These worked well but when I tried to assemble them the same way I had done the others I got into a right mess! Up to now I was joining a side, top and bottom together and sticking this down into the plan which has been coated with spray mount to hold them in place and then attached the internal bars one at a time butting them up against the fixed side before finally trimming to fit and adding the second side as the last step. However this didn't work witht he 45 degree angle as there was just too much "play" trying to fix the internal bars to the sloping side. In the end I built the frames first yesterday evening and left them to dry overnight, then this evening I started chopping the bars up to fit into the frames. I could then drop these into the frame and glue the sloping ends. I'll post a photo tomorrow, I've had enough for this evening Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kallisti Posted August 7, 2012 Author Share Posted August 7, 2012 Wooo hoo!! Guess what? Yup we have a complete set of bar armour!!! Bloody hell that was hard work! Now to resume work on the vehicle itself and look at the figures I've got. I went overboard on the figures a bit - getting two Blackdog British Modern Tanker figures plus the Accurate Armour Modern UK AFV Crew (Desert/Gulf) crew set, so it'll be a case of mixing and matching - the AA set has some nice heads with goggles and scarves, but the Blackdog figures have the correct body armour for the modern crews ( see here http://www.fireflymodels.co.uk/f35030-british-modern-tank-crew-p-349.html ) but the arms may need some work to get good poses appropriate for being in the vehicle. Onwards and upwards! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousDFB1 Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 They look smart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deacon Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Absolutely awesome mate. Deacon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christof Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 That looks amazing. I think you have captured the look of the slat armour perfectly. Christof Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kallisti Posted August 9, 2012 Author Share Posted August 9, 2012 Its been nice getting back to "normal" building having got the bar armour out of the way, well if you can call fiddling around with tiny bits of PE and resin "normal"!! Terry from CastOff models came up trumps and sent me the pieces that were missing from the original package so the plasan armour has been added and the turret has had most of its fittings added, including the replacement barrel trough which means you need to cut the metal barrel down to 37mm which is a very tricky thing to do without bending it... ask me how I know this... go on I dare you... :| As Terry says in the instructions: "I know tit looks odd but this is what it looks like, the only time you see a Scimitar, Sabre or Fox without this on is when the gun is being cleaned, it protects the trunion bearings from all the much that is thrown up. So I do not what to see any more Scimitars without the cover or someone will be on a charge." Yessir! Wheels have been primed and will get a coat of green before overpainting with sand - leaving a few patches of green of course where the paint has chipped off. So at this point I decided to try a test and see how well the bar armour fitted, since this is the first time I've had a chance since I did the paper version all those weeks ago. Well it was good news and um, bad news... So whats the bad news I hear you ask? Well its too flipping big innit! The turret looks okay but thats because I've left one of the single column pieces out - the back should the the 6 column piece with a single column either side, but if I do that its so wide it looks ridiculous and outsized. From various photos I've seen from the front, the bar armour sizes where the corner comes round should be in line with the side of the plasan armour as you see here. Put another single column in and its waaay out! So what about the hull? well this doesn't look wuite so bar but its still too big, but there is precious little I can do about it - I can't do the same as I did with the turret as the front and rear panels would look totally wrong. Oh and speakign of the back, I've found some more photos that seem to show just the three 2 column panels at the back but the width is enough to cover the whole of the back of the vehicle. This leads me to suspect that the 3 panels at the back are wider than the rest. What this confirms is that my trip down to Bovington was a total waste of time - at least as far as measuring this bugger is concerned. I still had a fun trip, but the mock up in the Afghan section is just that, a mock up and that has lead me down a garden path. I really need to get my tape measure onto an example of the real thing... anyone got one available? Anyway, I'm pressing on as I can't bear the thought of building the bar armour all over again - at least at this time. I have a feeling I will be doing it again sometime in the future... Here's another photo showing the bar armour mocked up This WILL get built!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousDFB1 Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 Daft question, could it be that the kit is out of scale? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintsPhil Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 Man this kits making you work for it! Keep it up though it'll look awesome when it's done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kallisti Posted August 10, 2012 Author Share Posted August 10, 2012 I doubt it Mish. Don't forget my measurements were taken off the mocked up vehicle at Bovington and I've been told that it was made by the museum staff from scrap, so it doesn't necessarily match what is out there in the field, it just LOOKS like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kallisti Posted August 11, 2012 Author Share Posted August 11, 2012 So after that minor psychological setback I started designing the ECM add-ons such as the "pods" at the front and the turret "spoiler". I had one really nice discovery when I chopped the supports from the back of the smoke dischargers to attach to the photo-etch brackets. The ejector pin mark on the back of the bracket is perfetly shaped and sized for the concave despression you see on the pods that are attached to the front of the hull So that was a fortunate discovery! Swings and roudabouts I guess! However, on further consideration I've decided to back away from the ECM additions to the most modern versions of the Scimitar - I just don't have enough detailed photos of the "spoiler"at the rear of the turret to be abel to accurately model it, especailly since it also appears the the stowage box on the rear of the trurret in these examples is taller than the non-ECM equipped ones. As a result, I don't have any confidence I could get it looking right so what would be the point of doing it wrong? As a consequence I will be happy with the earlier bar-armoured Scimitar from a couple of years back which isn't ECM equipped, like the photo I included in the very first post of this thread. So this morning I've been working on the brackets to attach the turret bar armour and I think I will be putting ALL the bar armour that I built on it rather than using the slimmed down version. Look at this photo: Notice how the ends of the bar armour are just outside the plassan armour plates - I mocked up my bar rmour in the same way and with the 6 column panel and 2 single column panels, it matched! If I removed one of the single panels, it wasn't very different so my concerns about it being too big are not as great as before. Yes it is a little too big, but not badly enough to warrant ditiching panels. As an aside, look at how the sand coloured camo has worn and peeled off this vehicle, that would be a fanstatic effect to achieve! Also interesting how they've wrapped hessian around the red fire extinguishers... Shame I won't be doing the ECM now, was looking forward to adding the wire cutters Maybe another time (omg what am I saying!!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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