Rodders Posted June 19, 2012 Posted June 19, 2012 Hi All, Forgive me if the description isn't very good. But i'm making the Italeri Panther A in 1/35 and i don't know a lot about Panthers but the have what look like metal protectors for the middle row of tyres i assume to stop the rubber from wearing. Could anyone give any advice on how to make them, I've thought about maybe filing the tyre to make it look flat or just trying to make the effect by painting. Anyone help with how to make them. Thanks, Andrew.
Panzer Vor!!! Posted June 19, 2012 Posted June 19, 2012 sounds like steel wheels chap i know some panthers carried them but not all the wheels were replaced by steel wheels some rubber were left on to cut down on vibrations
Rodders Posted June 19, 2012 Author Posted June 19, 2012 sounds like steel wheels chap i know some panthers carried them but not all the wheels were replaced by steel wheels some rubber were left on to cut down on vibrations Thanks Hood, The picture i've seen is of rubber wheels, but with as i've said some sort of ring on them. I'm no expert but didn't steel wheels come later. Thanks for the help though i'll investigate further. regards.
Andy K Posted June 19, 2012 Posted June 19, 2012 (edited) Hi All,Forgive me if the description isn't very good. But i'm making the Italeri Panther A in 1/35 and i don't know a lot about Panthers but the have what look like metal protectors for the middle row of tyres i assume to stop the rubber from wearing. Could anyone give any advice on how to make them, I've thought about maybe filing the tyre to make it look flat or just trying to make the effect by painting. Anyone help with how to make them. Thanks, Andrew. Could you get some pics of what you mean? I don't really know of anything on the Panther that matches your description Edited June 19, 2012 by Andy K
pigsty Posted June 19, 2012 Posted June 19, 2012 What you're seeing is probably the rim of the wheel showing up shiny because it's rubbing against the guide horns. The rim isn't exactly a tyre protector, though it achieves that end; it's simply that the tyre is narrower than the rim, so the rim stands out, and its edges can wear. This is a common feature of tanks where the guide horns don't just pass between the wheels. But Panther and Tiger tracks are unusual in that they have two guide horns that are arranged asymmetrically. This means that only one side of some wheels is worn, and some wheels hardly wear at all. Your best bet for replicating the effect is to hold some track against a set of assembled wheels and work out where the wear is - and where it will show, as there's no point wasting effort on something that no-one will see.
Rodders Posted June 19, 2012 Author Posted June 19, 2012 Sorry. i can't seem to copy this picture. So i hope it's ok to do it this way. What i'm trying to do is basically the shiny metal bits on the wheels just behind the crow bar. please forgive my ignorance, Thanks. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm...herlaufwerk.jpg
Andy K Posted June 19, 2012 Posted June 19, 2012 (edited) Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I SEEEEEEEEEEEEE! What you are looking at is the wheel rim that has had the paint removed due to the track guide horns rubbing against it, very common on Panthers plus other tanks that featured interleaved wheels. You are best doing this with graphite from a pencil rubbed around the rim as they did get quite polished, the graphite gives a better effect. DON'T use silver paint Edit; Just seen what Pigsty wrote above...D'OH! Edited June 19, 2012 by Andy K
pigsty Posted June 19, 2012 Posted June 19, 2012 Yup, that's what I've described. You can see the guide horn at the bottom of the wheel, just about touching the rim. The horn itself is slightly tapered, so the greatest wear is right at the outer edge of the rim, although with uneven ground and such there will be wear all the way across. You can see a similar rim on the next picture down on the Wikipedia page. This is actually the rim of the wheel, rather than a separate piece. It happens to be different from the rim of the outermost wheel that the chap on the right is trying to pull free, and while this is the first time I've looked closely enough to see it, I'm quite sure it was designed this way in the expectation that the outer face of the inner wheel would get more wear from the guide horns and so would need more protection. I shall bear it in mind when I finally get around to my Panther and Jagdpanther, so thanks for that. Incidentally, the back of the outer wheel may need similar treatment; I can't recall offhand how close it gets to the guide horns. That treatment: anything, really, between a dull metallic sheen (eg from a soft pencil) and bright silver. It depends how old the wear is and how dirty. I've seen just about everything on various armoured vehicles over the years. The guide horns will want some wear on them, too. You can just see by the left-hand bloke's shin that the inner horn is a bit brighter than the outer one - although this is the outward-facing parts only, and the other sides will be different again. (This does perhaps indicate that the inner face of the outer wheel didn't come into such intimate contact with the guide horns.)
Rodders Posted June 19, 2012 Author Posted June 19, 2012 Thanks guys for the help. I really thought it was a separate piece not a result of wear. Cheers.
Andy K Posted June 19, 2012 Posted June 19, 2012 Well looking at this pic I would say yes; Link to Panzer II pic Any tank that has the track guide horns level with the wheel rim would feature this, the 38t is a prime example.
Andy K Posted June 19, 2012 Posted June 19, 2012 By the way don't forget to include the rear idler and teeth on the drive sprockets if you are polishing up with graphite
pigsty Posted June 19, 2012 Posted June 19, 2012 (edited) Absolutely any tracked vehicle will do the same if it has guide horns that press against wheels. Not all do. In some the horns generally don't quite touch the wheels except in turns - this is common for vehicles with double wheels and a single horn that passes between them, especially where the track is appreciably wider than the wheels. Vehicles with single wheels have two sets of guide horns - one to either side - and both sides of the wheels will show wear. Obviously, only the sides of the horns that face the wheels will be worn. Examples include the Pz Kpfw II and the Sherman. (Some earth-moving equipment has no horns at all, although the wheels generally straddle a deep central portion of the track that has the same effect and takes similar wear.) I did once see a Warrior with wear on the outer faces of the road wheels. This should have been impossible, as the guide horns run past the inner faces. I've never yet worked out why. It was a crappy old driver training thing, so it can't have been because it had been polished for a parade. By the way don't forget to include the rear idler and teeth on the drive sprockets if you are polishing up with graphite And the return rollers, especially if they have no tyres - they'll wear all round the rim, not just on the outer faces. Edited June 19, 2012 by pigsty
Paul1958 Posted June 28, 2012 Posted June 28, 2012 Good picture you have found there Nerazzurri, shows the wheel construction real clear.. Thanks Paul
Rodders Posted June 28, 2012 Author Posted June 28, 2012 Thank you Nerazzurri that's really helpful. Cheers.
alanmac Posted June 28, 2012 Posted June 28, 2012 Hi The Wiki picture seems to show the Panther A which underwent extensive restoration and rebuild at the Military Vehicle Technology Foundation. To see further images you can look at what Chris has on his web site of this vehicle. His site, and CD's are great for obtaining detailed images. Here is a link to his site Toadman Pictures Here is the Axis site page with page links to the Panther A shown. Axis Photogallery and here is a link to the MVTF site, a place I'd dearly love to visit, see the examples and certainly pay my respects to the late Mr. Jacques Littlefield who's dedication, and financial backing founded the collection and subsequent Foundation. MVTF site Hope its of interest and help. All worth bookmarking in my opinion. Alan
Rodders Posted July 2, 2012 Author Posted July 2, 2012 Hi Alan, Thank you for the links and help. They will be really helpful, Cheers. HiThe Wiki picture seems to show the Panther A which underwent extensive restoration and rebuild at the Military Vehicle Technology Foundation. To see further images you can look at what Chris has on his web site of this vehicle. His site, and CD's are great for obtaining detailed images. Here is a link to his site Toadman Pictures Here is the Axis site page with page links to the Panther A shown. Axis Photogallery and here is a link to the MVTF site, a place I'd dearly love to visit, see the examples and certainly pay my respects to the late Mr. Jacques Littlefield who's dedication, and financial backing founded the collection and subsequent Foundation. MVTF site Hope its of interest and help. All worth bookmarking in my opinion. Alan
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