Correcting the Hobbycraft 1/72 CF 105 Arrow

[John R]

A while ago, having almost completed an Arrow, I put up a post about the availability of decent decals and this turned into a discussion about the kit's shortcomings. I then set about working out if it was possible to produce a reasonably accurate version and what follows is a summary of my findings. If anybody can supply any additional information or comments I would be grateful.

Wing



Ailerons need to reversed L to R to get the actuator fairings on the underside
OK to use original fuselage attachment points after fuselage has been widened.
Inboard leading edge to be lengthened to give correct sweep
Trailing edge needs widening at root
Reshaping of the leading edge needed to give drooped LE
Aerofoil section is too thin at mid-chord
Gear door cutouts need some relocation

Fuselage




Nose section
About correct width but needs to be mounted much further forward.
Nose shape should be conical but otherwise about right in profile.
Intake ramps need mounting further forward. Work needed on boundary layer bleeds
Intakes not wide enough – insert spacers
Intake shape is wrong. It should be much more rounded at the bottom corner

Main fuselage needs widening. Bulge after intakes needs to be removed (how did they get that wrong?)
Cockpit to fin fairing can be used but bulges alongside cockpit need removal. Air exhaust outlet on fairing needs correction
Bottom of the fuselage is too rectangular - corners need rounding
Rear section needs lengthening and reshaping
Engine exhaust and nozzle ???? Any ideas?

New canopy needed.
The canopy is completely wrong! The glazes panels should be flat and
form a 'V' shape which blends into the rounded section above the
observers cockpit.

Fin too small (also warped)

Landing gear
Wheels too small
New main gear doors needed
I haven't even thought about the u/c legs

John

Edited February 20, 2013 by John R

[Finn]

Hope this news doesn't cause you grief:

HC1393 – Hobbycraft - 1/72 scale Avro CF-105 "Arrow" Fighter All New Tooling plastic model kit.

it looks like they are coming out with a new "improved" Arrow.

Jari

[John R]

Hope this news doesn't cause you grief:

HC1393 – Hobbycraft - 1/72 scale Avro CF-105 "Arrow" Fighter All New Tooling plastic model kit.

it looks like they are coming out with a new "improved" Arrow.

Jari

Aaaah! but the proof of the pudding is in the eating...

John

Edited May 14, 2012 by John R

[Navy Bird]

Hope this news doesn't cause you grief:

HC1393 – Hobbycraft - 1/72 scale Avro CF-105 "Arrow" Fighter All New Tooling plastic model kit.

it looks like they are coming out with a new "improved" Arrow.

Jari

Hi Jari,

Now that sounds interesting! Can you provide a link to this news? Where did you see this?

Cheers,

Bill

Edited May 14, 2012 by Navy Bird

[Finn]

Hi Bill. So far i've seen it listed at this Cdn Mail Order site:

http://www.militaryhobbies.ca/product.cfm?ProductID=9176

Jari

[John Thompson]

Something doesn't add up - a search for Hobbycraft HC1393 turns up the information (from several sites) that HC1393 is the 1/72 DeHavilland Canada DHC-2 Beaver floatplane. Furthermore, I thought the currently-available CF-105 (which I assume is the one John is working on) was already Hobbycraft's second attempt - are they going to try yet again? If so, it would be nice if all manufacturers would be so diligent in reworking their kits to improve them, but I'm doubtful...

John (T)

Edit - Checking the link in Finn's latest post, I noticed that the date at the bottom of this page is 2008, so I'm guessing that the "new improved" CF-105 is the second release, and probably the same one John R is building. But I'd be quite happy to be wrong!

Edited May 14, 2012 by John Thompson

[aerofan]

Something doesn't add up - a search for Hobbycraft HC1393 turns up the information (from several sites) that HC1393 is the 1/72 DeHavilland Canada DHC-2 Beaver floatplane. Furthermore, I thought the currently-available CF-105 (which I assume is the one John is working on) was already Hobbycraft's second attempt - are they going to try yet again? If so, it would be nice if all manufacturers would be so diligent in reworking their kits to improve them, but I'm doubtful...

John (T)

Edit - Checking the link in Finn's latest post, I noticed that the date at the bottom of this page is 2008, so I'm guessing that the "new improved" CF-105 is the second release, and probably the same one John R is building. But I'd be quite happy to be wrong!

I confirmed with John T's finding by looking thru my 1992 Hobbycraft catalog and code HC1393 is assigned to the 1/72 DHC Beaver with pontoons. It wouldn't make sense for Hobbycraft to use this code as it would bring out alot of confusion. When they released their new tooled 1/48 scale Avro Arrow, they used the code HC1659 that wasn't used for anythingelse in their catalog. Note the old tooled 1/48 Arrow used the code HC1651 and then HC1658 for re-release with new revised decals.

I emailed NMH about this new tooled Arrow and await a reply. Also, I tried to goto Hobbycraft but their website is down for maintenance and their email isn't active.

Update: I checked on another modelling forum and it seems that there will be a all new tooled 1/72 Avro Arrow. But my guess is that it's going to be a scaled down version of the Hobbycraft 1/48 scale Avro Arrow which is not that accurate but much better in shape than the current HC1392 1/72 Arrow. Hopefully I'm wrong and it'll be just as good or better than the 1/72 scale diecast Avro Arrow.

Edited May 15, 2012 by aerofan

[aerofan]

Aaaah! but the proof of the pudding is in the eating...

John

Keep working on your Arrow. Until you see the new tool one at your LHS, consider it the Lochness' Nessie for now.

[upnorth]

Last I'd heard, Hobbycraft went bankrupt within the last year or two.

[John R]

Just to clear things up, the Arrow that I am starting from is the original HC 1392 with 'whitish' box and the actuators on the topside of the wings.

When I saw Finn's post I googled the details he gave and ended up at the website he gave in the next post and failed to notice the '2008'. Maybe this refers to the version with actuators on the underside in the 'brownish' box. A friend of mine has one of these in his stash (which is why he gave me his original to rip apart) so I will try to get a look at it and report further.

As to 'new tooling' my cynical attitude to these has been formed by several recent releases from Eastern European and Chinese manufacturers which never should have been allowed to see the light of day if they had any pride in their work.

John

I

[aerofan]

Last I'd heard, Hobbycraft went bankrupt within the last year or two.

After some investigative snooping, I've found out that Hobbycraft is still alive and that there is indeed a new tooled 1/72 CF-105. I hope to get more info on it and update here later.

[aerofan]

Aaaah! but the proof of the pudding is in the eating...

John

Here's the link to Hobbycraft's facebook page with images of the new tooled 1/72 scale CF-105 Arrow HC1393. I've already noticed the nose gear door is on the wrong side (left when it should be right). It also looks very much like the 1/48 one scaled down to 1/72 with missing panel lines between the airbrakes. Others may notice more and can add comments here.

Edited May 17, 2012 by aerofan

[viscount806x]

Something doesn't add up - a search for Hobbycraft HC1393 turns up the information (from several sites) that HC1393 is the 1/72 DeHavilland Canada DHC-2 Beaver floatplane. Furthermore, I thought the currently-available CF-105 (which I assume is the one John is working on) was already Hobbycraft's second attempt - are they going to try yet again? If so, it would be nice if all manufacturers would be so diligent in reworking their kits to improve them, but I'm doubtful...

John (T)

Edit - Checking the link in Finn's latest post, I noticed that the date at the bottom of this page is 2008, so I'm guessing that the "new improved" CF-105 is the second release, and probably the same one John R is building. But I'd be quite happy to be wrong!

Pretty sure that they have re made the 1/48th one but the 1/72 kit currently around is their one and only effort so far...

[aerofan]

Pretty sure that they have re made the 1/48th one but the 1/72 kit currently around is their one and only effort so far...

Word is that the new tooled 1/72 scale Arrow has been shipped out to the distributors on Monday and the LHS show have them on the shelves in the next week or two depending where you live. The unsold HC1392's may still be on the shelves and those one will be the last Aurora-ish Hobbycraft released ones left unless some Chinese firm bought the molds and are releasing it under their own name.

[NeilZR]

I am also working on an old Hobbycraft Arrow. I started it about 10 years ago, and put in on the back shelf, until just recently. Agree with all your points on needed mods. I used the Astra plans, major work was to move the nose forward 5mm and redo the intake trunking. The new Hobbycraft kit is good news, but don't put away the razor saw yet! Looking at the cockpit, and the undercarriage, not much improvement. Intakes look better, looks a little more like an Arrow. I will definitely be picking up a couple. I always wanted to do the early prototypes, an RCAF squadron aircraft, and an RAF version. Perhaps we will see some resin upgrades for this one!

[Sten Ekedahl]

In the pics on Facebook it doesn't look like a completely new mould, but rather like certain parts have been upgraded or modified, e.g. the tailpipes. From the pics it looks like the fit of the parts, or lack of the same, is very similar to what I remember from when I had a go at this kit several years ago.

Edited May 18, 2012 by Sten Ekedahl

[Flyboy72nd]

Just to clear up one thing the '2008' at the bottom of the page is the date the website was established. Check a new kit and you will see the same date.

[Paul J]

Here you are John. The largest remaining section of the CF-105. Hope it may help on your quest for the perfect Arrow!

On the left of the picture iss/was its replacement the Bomarc. And to the right just behind the nose of the Snowbird Tutor is on eof the Aurora engines for the Arrow.

This pic I took in 2006 and is in the Canada National Aviation Museum at Rockcliffe, Ottawa.

This is the full size all metal replica in the Toronto museum. When I took the picture it was 'work in progress' also in 2006.

Edited May 18, 2012 by Paul J

[John R]

Having had a look at the later issue the only difference between it and the earlier boxing is the repositioning of the actuators and a different decal sheet. The latter is of better quality but appears to use the wrong font for the RL201 marking!

Paul - your picture of the front fuselage doesn't help as it makes the nose cone look ogival rather than conical!

Is that replica still accessible? I have not been able to find any pictures via Google

John

[Paul J]

Is that replica still accessible? I have not been able to find any pictures via Google

John

Not sure now. The museum has been kicked out of their building at Downsview so any access or their website will be closed(?) Have seen pics of the roll out in Aircraft Illustrated and in Flypast in the past but I don't have copies of the Flypast but could seek out the other.

[pigsty]

And to the right just behind the nose of the Snowbird Tutor is on eof the Aurora engines for the Arrow.

Ahem ... Orenda Iroquois engine.

[Paul J]

Ahem ... Orenda Iroquois engine.

Uhh ...yeah, thanks Sean, ...thats what I meant. Don't know why Aurora came to my head

Forgot to add, the wing tip portions still exist too and are kept in the same museums storage building . Somewhere I've got the pictures I took on my visit there. I know they still show the dayglo areas though quite worn. I'll put up the pictures when I find them.

Edited May 23, 2012 by Paul J

[NeilZR]

John, I believe the nose cone is conical in plan, and ogival in elevation.

[John R]

According to the plans, allegedly from Avro, the nose is conical. In plan the nose goes straight from straight-sided to conical whereas in elevation the fuselage has a slight curve before becoming conical giving the impression of an ogive

John

[NeilZR]

Hi John, my sources are the Astra plan's and the 'Arrow", Boston Mills Press. There are also a series of books by the Arrow Alliance. The problem is that for pictures taken from ground level, the radome looks ogival, only in overhead views does the conical shape stand out. I was surprised, when I first saw the plans, showing the conical shape in plan, but I can see it in the overhead views. A very complex shape. Can hardly wait for the new kit!