Some Fleet Air Arm photographs...

[Test Graham]

I've no problem with the high contrast appearance of the Seafox, this is consistent with other views of FAA aircraft taken on ortho film, the Ark Royal Skua being perhaps the most famous in modelling circles. I would agree that if this was a finflash, then the colours are reversed! But I'm not sure it is what we are seeing. The fin flash was introduced in early May 1940, whereas yellow surrounds had been seen prewar.

The light colour of the "spaghetti" scheme was initially represented in profiles as Mid Stone - which has since been repeated ever after as if carved on stone. However, as more pictures come to light it became clear that the paint normally used was considerably lighter, especially as it was seen on aircraft already painted in the Desert Scheme. I've long thought light blue (presumably MAP Sky Blue? As opposed to the darker prewar BS Sky Blue) much more likely. Given that observers can actually see a colour this seems entirely consistent with both the evidence and the logic - sometimes anecdote, evidence and logic don't even give two out of three in agreement, so let's be happy with that.

There were a lot of interesting activities by the Alexandria MU(s), what a shame the records were lost postwar.

[Procopius]

A disaster? Perhaps you would like to elaborate, I always thought the Barracuda performed pretty well in both European and Pacific theatres?

Mick

It suffered from a spate of mysterious crashes (apparently something to do with hydraulic fluid -- which contained either -- spurting out of the gauges at face level, necessitating oxygen masks to be worn below 10,000 feet) and its low-altitude-rated Merlin 32 gave it some trouble during its time with the Eastern Fleet, where it needed to fly over Javanese mountain ranges. I've heard as well that it was unable to carry a full payload in Far Eastern waters and that its range suffered greatly.

[Selwyn]

One problem is that the people who were there may not have actually known the true reason for the painting, and what we are getting from them is "scuttlebutt". People are very good at inventing reasonable-sounding explanations for things they encounter. However, like others, I haven't seen many, if any, examples of camouflage netting being widely used to cover aircraft in the desert war.

I'd also suggest that the Macchi C.202 wasn't very prominent, if around at all, at the time this camouflage was introduced. We know that it (edit: not the Macchi!) was in use during the German attack on Greece, with at least one replacement fighter flying out in that scheme, and at least one left behind (the same one?). The Italian fighters of the time were radial engined, and not particularly like the Hurricane. The main Italian fighter at this time was the CR42, and disguising a Hurricane to look like a CR42 would require rather more imagination than a nose paint.

I agree that this particular example - and also others in the RN FF - do look metallic, but that would counter ALL the reasons put forward for the scheme, which are at least consistent in offering lowered visibility under some conditions.

One point has occurred to me, and that is the British Army was employing stage illusionist Maskelyne in the desert for what the Russions call "maskirovannye" (apologies for the failings of my Russian), so I wonder it this is one idea from his team?

Graham

I have seen a few pictures in an old Aircam(?) book on the Hurricane, of ME aircraft under scrim nets. I was searching around last night trying to find the book (no luck yet!)

Selwyn

[Test Graham]

Selwyn: I have that, so I'll take a look tonight.

re Barracuda: It had a few handling quirks, but many of the experienced pilots were coming from the Swordfish, a real old lady of an aircraft that wouldn't bite if you took liberties. Like most monoplanes of the period, the Barracuda would, so generated a dislike. Younger pilots were less unimpressed, shall we say, carefully phrasing it. Terence Ridley (sp?) wrote a good book on his career flying the Barracuda. He felt that the so-called killer dive was caused by weaving when attacking, causing one tailplane to come out of the propwash generating uncontrolled roll (I need to look at his text again to perhaps explain it better). This was something ingrained in Swordfish pilots, and very suitable for a slow aircraft dodging flak, but less appropriate for the faster modern types. But it was certainly underpowered for tropical work, and so after Leyte the FAA abandoned training for dive bombing and torpedo attacks on capital vessels (no targets left) leaving the Barra without a role. Until then the Avenger was largely limited to ASW work because it couldn't carry the British torpedo and the US one was considered pretty poor, plus it couldn't dive bomb. But if only conventional and glide bombing were needed, and you were to be operating alongside the USN, then the Avenger made a lot more sense.

Personally, I think they should have scrapped the Firefly and put their Griffons in the Barracuda sooner, but hindsight is a wonderful thing.

[merlin3945]

Love seeing old photos like these.

Have found a few in the past myself. Always amazing.

[keefr22]

The outline of the Hurricane was very similar to the Macchi C202 and the two aircraft would have been hard to tell apart when viewed from the front. A similar camouflage scheme may have given the Hurricane a few extra seconds in which to approach an Axis bomber without being challenged and this could be vital. Whether this really worked is hard to say without testimony from Axis aircrew. But perhaps the important question is whether the pilots flying the Hurricanes believed it worked.

Personally speaking, if I were flying one of those Hurri's I'd be more worried about getting shot down by the gunners manning the airfield defence guns when I returned home after a mission, than any perceived benefit in creeping up on an axis bomber.....

[brewerjerry]

HI

old thread on mottling

cheers

Jerry

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=29149

[Seahawk]

A disaster? Perhaps you would like to elaborate, I always thought the Barracuda performed pretty well in both European and Pacific theatres?

Mick

There are usually two sides to a story but in this case there's a lot more on one side than the other. Dunstan Hadley was a Barracuda pilot with 822 Sq. He and most of the rest of his squadron were mightily disappointed when the squadron was withdrawn from the front line after the 18 Sep 1944 raid on Sigli. He might be expected to (and did) have a soft spot for the aircraft. Nevertheless here's his description of taking off in a Barracuda (Barracuda Pilot, p.80-81): "Take-off was unique. As the Barra clawed its way unwillingly into the air under the fantastic power of its overblown engine going flat out, it gave an unnerving lurch to the left and right as first one wheel clicked up then the other. Vastly relieved of this burden, it started slowly to climb. The pilot then shut the canopy to reduce drag a little more, urging it on with care and prayer until what was casually called 'a safe height' was reached. Once actually flying it shrugged off its initial lethargy and behaved in a manner more befitting the Navy's number one hunter killer." (He later describes giving a Spitfire pilot who bounced him pause for thought by turning inside him using the flaps.)

Then there's the account of Donald Judd, an Avenger pilot, who wanted "to see for myself just what this disreputable plane was like": "I've never had such a hairy flight and was really relieved to get down again in one piece.....I needed full power to get it even moving....It was sluggish, heavy and cumbersome; there was no feeling of power. Halfway down the runway, by which time the Avenger would already have left the runway, we were nowhere near becoming unstuck. We took the whole length of the runway and then I had to yank her into the air. .... By now I was determined not to try any fancy business with it but to get back on the ground as soon as possible. It was like flying a tank. Any resemblance to an aircraft was coincidental. It had no reaction on the throttle and and the answer I got from the controls was like trying to move a dead weight. I gave myself plenty of room on the run in to land and by force of habit with the Avenger I cut the throttle to a minimum short of the runway specially as I had kept my speed on the high side. The plane started to fall out of the sky and I got the willies.... I jammed the throttle to full power and the Barracuda only just cleared the end of the runway. I told Wings - the station's [Katukurunda's] Commander Flying - when I got out: "Don't ever make me fly that b*****d again. He just grinned and said, "You didn't have to, did you?" but I didn't see the joke." (Avenger From The Sky, pp.120-121).

The "blame it on ex-Swordfish drivers" line has something in it but Eric Brown says of the losses affflicting 827 Sq, the first squadron to work up with the Barracuda II (Wings of The Navy, p.103): "As the frequency of such accidents increased, it became progressively more difficult to simply attribute such disasters to the unfamiliarity of ex-biplane crews with monoplane perfromance , as was the initial tendency."

The reason for the Barracuda's withdrawal from the front-line carriers of the British Pacific Fleet was lack of the range to avoid unduly jeopardising the parent carriers (Hobbs: The British Pacific Fleet, p.57). Nevertheless, one feels it might have saved the lives of many young aircrew.

Of course as the Tirpitz and Sigli raids showed, it was an effective dive-bomber. I suppose any aircraft that falls out of the sky when you take the foot off the gas ought to be.

I understand that the Barracuda will be a forthcoming subject in the From The Cockpit series: it ought to be a good read!

[Tom R]

There are usually two sides to a story but in this case there's a lot more on one side than the other.

Some more on the negative side.

John Godley (later Lord Kilbracken) was a highly experienced senior pilot.

He writes about the effect of commanding a Barracuda squadron late in the war ....

with the war over, I could at last do what I'd long known I'd

have to do in the end. Go to the Surgeon-Commander.

He was so very sympathetic. As though he'd been expecting

me. So I hadn't flown at all since that very unpleasant incident

two months ago? Well, you know, it isn't really surprising. And

only seven hours since April. We're always getting cases like

this, it's nothing out of the ordinary. Tell me more about your

flying. Well, over three years in front-line squadrons, Doc. Yes

goddammit and sixty-seven operations. And 132 deck landings.

And flying more than 1000 hours in every kind of God-awful

weather. And four total engine failures and being hauled frozen

from the Atlantic and flying through the Newcastle balloons

and Bluebell disappearing. And the Albacore sinking under me

and the Chesapeake overturning and the bloody flak coming up

at me time and again and the ship pitching like crazy for Arctic

landings. But worst of all, Doc, these fuckin~ Barras. I was a

Stringbag boy, Doc, bring back my Stringbag and I'll fly it,

but not these gremlin-filled Barracudas which will spin as soon

as look at you, their wings folding in mid-air, and now they

fuckin' anaesthetize you for God's sake. And if I don't kill

myself l'll kill someone else, Doc. Maybe one of these kids and,

Jesus, I can't take it any more, I'm just twitched to hell, I've

had it.

[ClaudioN]

The camouflage scheme is interesting, agreed. It seems not to have a fin flash, but does have the yellow concentric to the fuselage roundel. These marking changes were both introduced simultaneously and I can't recall other examples where only one was applied (though perhaps these are more common than I have registered)?

Did you notice the picture of the port side of the other Seafox (that on the catapult, with the engine exposed) shows a 'B' letter code on what appears to be the white centre part of a fin flash?

Very interesting photos.

Claudio