Why fit windows in airliners, given today's technology?

[GrahamS]

One thing that always amazed me is, why do they have opaque glass in the windows of the toilet on airliners, who is going to see you.

Robin.

And can you flush the loo while still at the airport?

Graham

[Julien]

I've been on several flights where the in-flight movie screens etc malfunctioned.

I've been on flights where the film has been so bad I wish the screens had malfunctioned!

Julien

[pigsty]

And can you flush the loo while still at the airport?

Graham

Yes. And when you urgently need to use the thing before take-off, I imagine having a clear window might be a bit of a problem for anyone still in the terminal. Of course, no window at all is equally useful for a toilet, especially as they never align the seat so that you can look out to while away the time.

[Gajman]

Plane spotters would have something to say when landing somewhere exotic lol

Plus views like this are great to see!!

ATR by Rainbow 1984, on Flickr

You're right, that is a fantastic view. Always reassuring when the propellers are turning

[GordonD]

We need some of that transparent aluminium from Star Trek IV...

[Vulcanicity]

I definitely agree about really experiencing the views. Here are a few of my own from a few years of flying. Not great pics but you get the point.

Oil palm plantations, Malaysian Borneo

Pack Ice, Canadian Arctic

Brecon Beacons (approach to Bristol International)

New York

Alps

Air France!

I've been on a flight with downward and forward-looking cameras accessible via the seat-back, and it really was quite unispiring compared with simply looking out of the window...

[Iain Ogilvie]

Gimme windows please! (although I'd much prefer view from cockpit! )

The thought of sitting in a tube with no windows and just a video screen sounds utterly appalling - I'll pass...

Iain

[jimbuna]

Windows for me.

Flying over northern Canada enroute to Houston:

[Graeme]

Just to extend the discussion, one other thing that occurs to me that might ease people's fear of flying, and reduce drunkeness and so on...fill the metal/composite tube (which has no windows in it) with sleeping gas and knock the passengers out, lol - no need for cabin crew, food, drinks, windows, movies, screaming brats...and so on, ad infinitum!

I really should work for an airline's marketing department!!!

Graeme

[Basosz]

Just to extend the discussion, one other thing that occurs to me that might ease people's fear of flying, and reduce drunkeness and so on...fill the metal/composite tube (which has no windows in it) with sleeping gas and knock the passengers out, lol - no need for cabin crew, food, drinks, windows, movies, screaming brats...and so on, ad infinitum!

I really should work for an airline's marketing department!!!

Graeme

I think there's a patent for that at the US patent office. There are some really freaky things at the USPO

Some examples: http://www.patentlysilly.com/archives.php?...p;subcatID=3420

The second and fourth are in the same ballpark as your idea Graeme and a bit further down there's even a system to stun and then drop would be terrorists actually IN the floor

[Richard M]

Just to extend the discussion, one other thing that occurs to me that might ease people's fear of flying, and reduce drunkeness and so on...fill the metal/composite tube (which has no windows in it) with sleeping gas and knock the passengers out, lol - no need for cabin crew, food, drinks, windows, movies, screaming brats...and so on, ad infinitum!

I really should work for an airline's marketing department!!!

Graeme

I think Michael O'Leary would like to introduce that for RyanAir......

[Philbky]

Problem with that is that some of FR's sectors are so short the gas would only just have taken effect before the antidote would have to be applied. No doubt MOL would be only too happy to charge £50 per sector for gas masks for those who wanted to remain conscious and would sign a good behaviour pledge - with an "administration fee", of course.

[halcyonjet]

I've been on flights where the film has been so bad I wish the screens had malfunctioned!

Julien

An Airtours flight I was on one time, tried to show a Jackie Chan movie (not my cup of tea at all) but it kept failing after 10 minutes. They gave up after 3 attempts

Anyway, if airliners didn't have windows, we couldn't have the decals or open windows debate/arguament

Dave

[Kev1n]

One thing that always amazed me is, why do they have opaque glass in the windows of the toilet on airliners, who is going to see you.

Robin.

An un-named Swiss airline was asked if it wanted toilet windows and if the windows should have a curtain or blind installed.

The reply was "We have no 35,000 foot tall perverts in Swizerland"

[little-cars]

We need some of that transparent aluminium from Star Trek IV...

Sorted: Transparent Aluminium !

Paul

[AV O]

Problem with that is that some of FR's sectors are so short the gas would only just have taken effect before the antidote would have to be applied. No doubt MOL would be only too happy to charge £50 per sector for gas masks for those who wanted to remain conscious and would sign a good behaviour pledge - with an "administration fee", of course.

Plus food, drink, and table use !!! Not to forget electronically monitored window blind sliding fee!

Edited April 25, 2012 by AV O

[AV O]

It surprises me, whenever I fly long distances, how few people actually are concerned about looking out of the window. To be fair, it may be that some of them are looking out when I'm looking down, and I can't see everyone, let alone monitor their activity throughout! When we are passing over land, I spend most of my time looking out of the window, if I can, though I would appreciate a screen view from fixed cameras, too.

How many people actually have access to a window ?

Considering that (on a wide body airplane) only 20°/° of seats are by the windows, and out of those, almost half of them are above the wings.

Not to forget, the passengers who have battled to get a window seat, falling asleep on their pillow against the open window, preventing thieir neighbour to close the bind, or properly watching a movie because of the light.

About windows in the toilet, have you thought about a frustrated passenger with a no window seat, looking and enjoying the beautiful sight of Himalaya or Sahara, while others are queuing ?

Edited April 25, 2012 by AV O

[Philbky]

How many people actually have access to a window ?

Considering that (on a wide body airplane) only 20°/° of seats are by the windows, and out of those, almost half of them are above the wings.

Whilst the views can be stunning, far more important is is the amount of daylight let into the cabin and the effect on circadian rhythms. For instance, travelling westbound across the Atlantic, there is less chance of jet lag (which should already be less than on an eastbound sector) if passengers are exposed to the daylight for the whole journey and work with the clock by staying up until normal bedtime on the local time on arrival. The circadian rhythm adjusts far better and quicker that way then the seemingly recent fad for darkening ship as soon as possible and people sleeping for most of the trip.

When films were projected from the aisle on narrow bodies then the blinds needed to be down for the film, modern seat back screens are far better at coping with all but the brightest sun.

There were always some people who closed their blinds and slept but I can't quite put my finger on when the era of the day time long haul flying dormitory was ushered in - certainly with most airlines during the last 10 or 12 years. For the previous 40 years I can't remember a single daytime long haul trip when the blinds were closed by the crew without a by your leave.

[Giorgio N]

How many people actually have access to a window ?

Considering that (on a wide body airplane) only 20°/° of seats are by the windows, and out of those, almost half of them are above the wings.

Not to forget, the passengers who have battled to get a window seat, falling asleep on their pillow against the open window, preventing thieir neighbour to close the bind, or properly watching a movie because of the light.

On continental flights with low cost arlines I'm one of those who gets the window seat (usually purchasing the priority boarding) and then is happy to sleep. The window seat is way better for this, as you can lean on the window. Sleeping on one of those fixed seats on RyanAir flights is very hard for me ! Now you might ask why sleep when there's a lot to see outside... well, apart from the fact that on the average italy-uk flight once passed the alps there's rarely anything to see because of the clouds, the main reason is that when the aircraft takes off at 6.30 AM and the return leaves at 10 PM the same day, some sleep is needed !

About windows in the toilet, have you thought about a frustrated passenger with a no window seat, looking and enjoying the beautiful sight of Himalaya or Sahara, while others are queuing ?

Been there done that ! Not usually from the toilet window (some airlines have windows in the toilet) but from the windows on the emergency doors. Must say that I I have to take a very long flight, I prefer an aisle seat... at least I can have a walk without having to jump over a couple of asleep fellow passengers.

[AV O]

Whilst the views can be stunning, far more important is is the amount of daylight let into the cabin and the effect on circadian rhythms. For instance, travelling westbound across the Atlantic, there is less chance of jet lag (which should already be less than on an eastbound sector) if passengers are exposed to the daylight for the whole journey and work with the clock by staying up until normal bedtime on the local time on arrival. The circadian rhythm adjusts far better and quicker that way then the seemingly recent fad for darkening ship as soon as possible and people sleeping for most of the trip.

This works for people boarding at the starting point of the airplane. Not for transfer passengers having already travelled 10/12 hours on their incoming flight.

For example, boarding in Delhi for LHR, connecting to JFK or IAH (imagine LAX or SFO).

Not to mention changing terminals with large families with babies/children/old people through increasing size Airports.

These people want to be fit upon arrival.

The largest number of passengers are transfer passengers on any airline.

Edited April 25, 2012 by AV O

[Test Graham]

This works for people boarding at the starting point of the airplane. Not for transfer passengers having already travelled 10/12 hours on their incoming flight.

For example, boarding in Delhi for LHR, connecting to JFK or IAH (imagine LAX or SFO).

Not to mention changing terminals with large families with babies/children/old people through increasing size Airports.

These people want to be fit upon arrival.

The largest number of passengers are transfer passengers on any airline.

The last statement is logically impossible, even (I suspect) omitting all the flights such as the Manchester-London shuttle which are predominantly commuters. How about all the charter flights? RyanAir? Monarch? Are you saying that it is true for trans-Atlantic flights? That seems likelier.

However, the comment about circadian rythms is equally true for long-distance transfer passengers as for point-to-point.

Yes, only a few passengers can get to see out of a window. As I pointed out, many don't want to. That's not a reason to spoil the event for those who do. However, if there really was only a small minority who want windows, if only ocassionally, they would have disappeared long ago.

[Jennings Heilig]

One thing that always amazed me is, why do they have opaque glass in the windows of the toilet on airliners, who is going to see you.

Robin.

The only airliner I've ever flown that had a window in the toilet was a commuter a/c (ATR-42? Possibly a Saab 340? I can't recall), but it wasn't frosted glass. The Tu-134 is the only other a/c later than a DC-3 that I can think of with a toilet window, but both of those have the window in the overhead.

[garryrussell]

If I fly, I want a widow seat to look out

That is why I fly for the total experience.

If there were no windows just videos, I may as well stay at home and watch a film.

There were rearward facing seat in some positions on Viscounts and Vanguards in BEA service as well as BUA/BIA Heralds

I never liked the rearward facing seats.

I like to look forward and watch the view

If on a screen you are not really seeing it.

[Philbky]

This works for people boarding at the starting point of the airplane. Not for transfer passengers having already travelled 10/12 hours on their incoming flight.

For example, boarding in Delhi for LHR, connecting to JFK or IAH (imagine LAX or SFO).

Given the regular timings for Delhi t/f at LHR to a USA destination, there is even more reason for the pax to stay awake on the transatlantic sector. With a late evening/early hours departure ex Delhi the time to sleep is on the sector to London at a time when the pax would normally sleep, spending the transfer time and daylight hours awake. On arrival in the US they can then have an evening meal, go to bed at bedtime local time and get up next morning in tune with their surroundings.

These people want to be fit upon arrival.

The largest number of passengers are transfer passengers on any airline.

To be fit upon arrival you need to be totally in tune with the time at the destination. I've been far more tired after an LHR - Rio 12 hour with the blinds closed for most of the trip,with 7 hours or so daylight available and a 2 or 4 hour time difference, depending on season, than after an LHR- LAX 11 hour with daylight all the way and an 8 hour difference.

As for transfer pax, most are transfer from short/medium sectors to long haul rather than long haul to long haul.

[GordonD]

Sorted: Transparent Aluminium !

Paul

Score another one for the Trekkies!