Jump to content

Why fit windows in airliners, given today's technology?


Graeme

Recommended Posts

I was watching the 787 on the BBC this morning and the reporter showed the electronically darkening windows, which got me to thinking...why bother fitting windows anyway? Surely the fuselage would be stronger anyway without lots of holes on each side (lol), but instead of windows they could simply fit video screens and use camera's to project the external view...you want it dark, turn the screen off?

I read somewhere that the Sultan of Brunei or somebody like that has an A380 on order and will use that technology in the floor so passengers can watch the ground they are flying over (it was on tinternet so it must be true)

Graeme

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was watching the 787 on the BBC this morning and the reporter showed the electronically darkening windows, which got me to thinking...why bother fitting windows anyway? Surely the fuselage would be stronger anyway without lots of holes on each side

Ask De Havilland about that...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

yes the fuselage would be stronger without any openings in it....

This has been looked at by airliner designers and dismissed by airlines as passengers would feel too enclosed

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Having external visual cues can reduce airsickness. The concept of being in a windowless, hermetically-sealed aluminium tube amongst 150 vomiting "closest recent acquaintances" really doesn't thrill me!

Edited by mhaselden
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi there,

Bizarely, I attended the first Cheltenham Festival of Enginering on Sunday to see two lectures, one being with the Airbus concept aircraft of 2050, given by the A380 head of areo dynamics.

Interesting stuff indeed looking at the future of civil aviation, from redesinging engines, fuels etc.

He did however, make a point over and over again during the lecture and during the Q&A, that engineers and designers totally hate puting windows in any aircraft due to the weight and renforceing the airframes around the windows, so we the humble passenger can look out.

So Airbus are indeed looking at active composite airframes to degate having windows all together with various sections of the passenger section having incredible veiwing areas.

By the way, the A350 also looks like a wonderful bird, clearly going up against the 787.

I am sure if you google Airbus Concept Plane, you may find the really cool video we saw plus various images, although he asured us the model is a design concept only.

The sad thing that came over is that neither Airbus or Boeing are not even near looking at an SST again.

The second lecture we went to was by Ardman Studios with Wallce and Gromit sitting on the coffe table. Which was nice.

Interesting days ahead indeed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why put windows in passenger aircraft?

Firstly spatial orientation and circadian rhythms are important, particularly on long haul flights. I'm about to head off on a 10 hour trip from LHR to IAH and I resent crews who think the best way of dealing with pax on a long haul flight is to serve the meal, darken the cabin, even at midday in the height of summer, and head to the galley to read newspapers and gossip. I'm afraid as a fare paying passenger they get short shrift from me.

Another reason for having windows is, if you have a window seat, some of the cloudscapes can be amazing, cities at night from altitude are one of the wonders of the modern world, seeing the vastness of the Amazon jungle, the mountains of Eastern Turkey or the Sahara from the air should be on everyone's bucket list. On this trip I'm looking forward to seeing icebergs - as I regularly do at this time of year and even the road and river systems of the USA can be fascinating to see, even though I've flown over most of the US many times.

Boeing, by putting in bigger windows on the 787, obviously realise there is more to windows than just annoying the design and structural engineers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, windows are something the engineers would happily do without ! A lot of weight and design complications would be avoided without the windows.

However the psychological effect of an aircraft with no windows on the passengers would be terrible.

Personally I'm only happy to have a window to look out from. Having a screen would not be the same.

This reminds me of another issue that was discussed years ago: the seat direction. Some researches have shown that having the seats facing backward would be better from a safety point of view. However when passengers were interviewed about this, nobody wanted this kind of arrangement. Rear facing seats are installed on some military transports... but of course in that case the passengers are not allowed to complain much.. :lol:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Many military transports have few or no windows yet are designed to carry, in some cases, hundreds of troops. The C135, C141, Il76 come to mind, not to mention the C130. I've spoken to some members of various armed forces who have found such aircraft claustrophobic whilst others haven't taken too much notice (perhaps being too focussed on the job in hand). I've been up the back in a C5 where there is a 90 seat windowless passenger compartment in what is the most turbulence affected part of the airframe and wouldn't care to travel very far in it. The RAF, on the other hand, have - C130s apart - kept windows even when converting aircraft from airliners.

As for rearward facing seats, when BEA and later BA had the Trident 3 in service they had rearward facing seats at the front of the cabin backing onto the bulkhead and I always tried to get one as they were comfortable, had more leg room and there was little difference, as far as I was concerned, in flying backwards.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It surprises me, whenever I fly long distances, how few people actually are concerned about looking out of the window. To be fair, it may be that some of them are looking out when I'm looking down, and I can't see everyone, let alone monitor their activity throughout! When we are passing over land, I spend most of my time looking out of the window, if I can, though I would appreciate a screen view from fixed cameras, too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I love looking out of the window on a flight. When I last went to Kenya it was a day flight and we passed the westen end of the Alps and flew down the west coast of Italy. Spectacular and looking down on Genoa from 35,000 feet was like looking at google earth with everything laid out below. The only problem was a lack of a zoom option. :lol:

Richard

It surprises me, whenever I fly long distances, how few people actually are concerned about looking out of the window. To be fair, it may be that some of them are looking out when I'm looking down, and I can't see everyone, let alone monitor their activity throughout! When we are passing over land, I spend most of my time looking out of the window, if I can, though I would appreciate a screen view from fixed cameras, too.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You all seem to be missing my main point - if you have video screens, you don't need the windows because the external view is displayed on the video screens - which will mean your brain forgets it's in an enclosed metal/composite tube

Graeme

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You all seem to be missing my main point - if you have video screens, you don't need the windows because the external view is displayed on the video screens - which will mean your brain forgets it's in an enclosed metal/composite tube

Graeme

Psychological - you know it's not real, there's always the doubt that what is on the screen is actually what is outside. Plus a window is always there, I've been on several flights where the in-flight movie screens etc malfunctioned.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not missing the point at all. A video screen is a selective view, does not have the same impact on the viewer as a real world view and is not in the control of the viewer. Last year coming back over night from the USA I watched a fantastic light show off the eastern seaboard of the USA for over 400 miles caused by an electrical storm with CBs up to 40,000 feet around 100 miles off our track. I was right down the back and my blind being up didn't disturb anyone.

It was one of the most spectacular displays I've seen outside of the Far East. No doubt had the aircraft been devoid of windows the crew would have turned off any outside display "for passenger comfort" and anyway aircraft that are fitted with cameras have them facing forward and slightly down, so I would have missed everything.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This reminds me of another issue that was discussed years ago: the seat direction. Some researches have shown that having the seats facing backward would be better from a safety point of view. However when passengers were interviewed about this, nobody wanted this kind of arrangement. Rear facing seats are installed on some military transports... but of course in that case the passengers are not allowed to complain much.. :lol:

They are allowed to complain. It just doesn't do 'em any good! :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why put windows in passenger aircraft?

Firstly spatial orientation and circadian rhythms are important, particularly on long haul flights. I'm about to head off on a 10 hour trip from LHR to IAH and I resent crews who think the best way of dealing with pax on a long haul flight is to serve the meal, darken the cabin, even at midday in the height of summer, and head to the galley to read newspapers and gossip. I'm afraid as a fare paying passenger they get short shrift from me.

Another reason for having windows is, if you have a window seat, some of the cloudscapes can be amazing, cities at night from altitude are one of the wonders of the modern world, seeing the vastness of the Amazon jungle, the mountains of Eastern Turkey or the Sahara from the air should be on everyone's bucket list. On this trip I'm looking forward to seeing icebergs - as I regularly do at this time of year and even the road and river systems of the USA can be fascinating to see, even though I've flown over most of the US many times.

Boeing, by putting in bigger windows on the 787, obviously realise there is more to windows than just annoying the design and structural engineers.

re the morons that lean across you at midday and pull your blind down without a by your leave, "get stuffed" is my natural response but that tends to upset them, to avoid a row just say"claustrophobic," that frightens them off

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I like to look out of the windows - However when I flew to San Francisco last year on a flight taking off at around lunchtime - a couple of hours into the flight the flight attendants almost insisted that I closed the blinds on the windows so that others could sleep - It was in First so I had about three windows..

Whats that all about? Apparently, I was told that, on new aircraft the electronic blinds are operated by the flight attendants so you are not going to have a choice..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...