Jon Kunac-Tabinor Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 What ho chaps, kicked off building the Aeroclub model today ( it will be in WIP later). However there doesnet seem to be any seat in the back for the gunner-johnny. Did I miss something? Cheers Jonners Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham T Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 What ho chaps, kicked off building the Aeroclub model today ( it will be in WIP later). However there doesnet seem to be any seat in the back for the gunner-johnny. Did I miss something?Cheers Jonners Having read your post I had a quick look at my Demon & nothing leapt out at me. However I had a look at my Silver Wings Hart & the instructions are handily available on their website. Presumably they are similer in this respect & the gunners seat appears to be a let down affair. Have a look here: http://www.silverwings.pl/edc_media/Struct...-instrukcja.pdf If you're tackling the Aeroclub Demon, see if you can get hold of the Mushroom book on the Hart Series which should prive useful. Looking forward to your WIP!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Kunac-Tabinor Posted April 21, 2012 Author Share Posted April 21, 2012 Having read your post I had a quick look at my Demon & nothing leapt out at me. However I had a look at my Silver Wings Hart & the instructions are handily available on their website. Presumably they are similer in this respect & the gunners seat appears to be a let down affair. Have a look here: http://www.silverwings.pl/edc_media/Struct...-instrukcja.pdfIf you're tackling the Aeroclub Demon, see if you can get hold of the Mushroom book on the Hart Series which should prive useful. Looking forward to your WIP!! Cheers Graham - as soon as i get paid it will be ordered!! PS did you manage to contact Rowan at Pheon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Aero Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 (edited) Jonners It's the rusty tubes in this shot under the pilots seat. I only recently noticed this. It had I believe a canvas camp chair seat and in the Mushroom book it's wrongly discribed as a radio mount. In the photo it's half way out and the pivot of the V frames is at the bottom. The other rusty tube which is tiewrapped to the frame is the pegs for the Lewis magazine stowage. John Edited April 21, 2012 by John Aero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sten Ekedahl Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Not much comfort for the poor "GIB"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham T Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Cheers Graham - as soon as i get paid it will be ordered!!PS did you manage to contact Rowan at Pheon? No I haven't contacted Pheon yet. I may use the Aeroclub 64 squadron markings (which is a modern "warbird") but cobble together some serials from the Silver Wings decals sheets for a correctly serialed period machine. I'm using a Lindberg Fury currently underconstruction as "practice"! JonnersIt's the rusty tubes in this shot under the pilots seat. I only recently noticed this. It had I believe a canvas camp chair seat and in the Mushroom book it's wrongly discribed as a radio mount. In the photo it's half way out and the pivot of the V frames is at the bottom. The other rusty tube which is tiewrapped to the frame is the pegs for the Lewis magazine stowage. John Interesting photos John, is that an Afghan Hart undergoing restoration? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Aero Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Graham Yes it'a an ex Afghan Hind and awaiting restoration. John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Kunac-Tabinor Posted April 22, 2012 Author Share Posted April 22, 2012 Thanks John - hope you are feeling better BTW. Jonners Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Bradley Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Looking at the Mushroom book, it clearly shows the seat framing arrangement in a small photo of an Audax. However, a small photo of the Aussie Demon also shows a folding arrangement with wooden tracks on the sidewalls - have you seen that, John? Incidentally, got my Demon (and a Gauntlet) yesterday - I haven't stopped drooling....! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Aero Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 (edited) Hi Jonners and Paul I'm getting there. I think daytime TV has crushed the desire to retire. Paul, I have the photos and in my interpretation ,what appear to be "flip" up hinges on the Audax are in fact short lengths of tube and some of the V tubes seems to be missing from the frame in the Audax. An odd thing is that the wooden railed seat on page 205 is that it faces the wrong way ( took me ages to work out the frame tubes) and on inflight photos of K8203 the passenger is facing forwards. I'm happy to be proved wrong but I don't think it is an original fitting. The forwards stowing swing seat is an arch so that the Observer/Gunner can crawl through to the bomb aimers sliding panel, not required on RAF a/c, but the panel was used on RAAF Demons which were in effect "two gun Hinds". Talking of two guns, the specs for the Hartebeest (by whatever spelling) always state one forward firing gun, but photos reveal two like the Aussie Demons. These Hawker types are a real Hodge podge. John Edited April 22, 2012 by John Aero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julien Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Not much comfort for the poor "GIB"! Was probably quite comfortable I would have thought. The russians were still using something similar in WWII! Julien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Test Graham Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 John, when you retire you're far too busy to watch daytime TV. As others have said, where did the time come from to go to work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Bradley Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Fair enough, John! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Kunac-Tabinor Posted April 26, 2012 Author Share Posted April 26, 2012 Thanks for the info once again chaps. Now the next question is - where did the gunners harness attach to in that case? Cheers once again Jonners Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Aero Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 (edited) Jonners I'm not actually sure if he had one. possibly a lap strap on the retracting seat. However as the gunner he had to leap instantly into action and he could push the seat out of the way by standing and I believe he had a cable attached to the front of his chute harness which anchored him to the centre floor. Attached is a photo in my files which I don't know who to credit for, but it shows the seat retracted and the modern transit harness in the Shuttleworth Hind. Note the wooden Vee blocks with which the gunner used his body to slew the gun ring. The centre cable allowed him 360 deg travel. The cable anchor is very bottom off to the right. The silver box is I think a recent ditty box. John Edited April 26, 2012 by John Aero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Kunac-Tabinor Posted April 26, 2012 Author Share Posted April 26, 2012 Thanks John - thats a very useful pic. Nice reference for the colour of the fabric stained with dope too, Cheers Jonners Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Bradley Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 According to the Mushroom book, there was a chain attached to the floor that the gunner attached to his harness - commonly known as the Monkey Chain...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Work In Progress Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 According to the Mushroom book, there was a chain attached to the floor that the gunner attached to his harness - commonly known as the Monkey Chain...! I can't remember where, but within the last three years I've read a credibly written first-hand account of being a Demon gunner in which it was apparent that the single attachment to the floor was all you got - no actual seat harness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham T Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 I can't remember where, but within the last three years I've read a credibly written first-hand account of being a Demon gunner in which it was apparent that the single attachment to the floor was all you got - no actual seat harness. What gives me the squits is that the gunner in the WW1 Fe2 had absolutely NOTHING holding him in the kite whilst he had to man-handle the gun in combat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentM Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Quite interesting pics. I'm currently building a Hawker Hart model and was wondering what was the cockpit color. As this Hind was awaiting restoration, I guess this is original paint? does it mean all aircraft of the "Hart family" (or all Hawker birds of the time) were painted in this medium grey inside?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Aero Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 I do believe that the colouring is original but I've also come across Black frames. The colour might even be contractor specific as the Hawker biplanes were built by Hawker, Westland, Avro, Boulton Paul and Gloster. I would go with the grey for a Hart. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentM Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Thanks for this explanation, John. I think that the inside color could also be "customer specific" in some cases, couldn't it? This very a/c was previously used by Afghanistan, so couldn't this grey paint be applied to export machines?? If it's the case, that would help since my Hawker Hart is intended to be an estonian one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Aero Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 The Afghan machines were a mix of new and ex RAF machines. So I'm sure the colour was either factory or maybe time specific. It could be the Grey is a Cerrux finish. Photos seem to show a bit of a mix but having just trawled through my original Hawker photos most airframes (Tomtit's, Hornet, Fury etc) are Black and I wonder if these grey Afghan examples were Gloster built, as the Gauntlet frame I think was Grey. And to further confuse I have one photo of a typical Hawker fuselage joint and the horizontals are jappaned Black and the vertical appears to be Grey. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentM Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Thanks for this. So what I've understood so far is that the inside color depends more on the factory, than on destination (ie RAF or foreign users). I have found some interesting information in the old small Profile book about the Hart, stating that estonian Harts (8 machines) have been built by Hawker. Another useful info found in the 'Hart Family' book from Aeroguide Classics is that the whole Hind production batch was built by Hawker's mother factory. That means that all Hinds are then supposed to be the same color inside, light or medium grey. Now does this mean that all Hawker-produced a/c of the time had light-grey cockpits??? maybe it's a quick conclusion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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