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Posted
To be honest I've started painting my German armour in a more mushroom-y colour base coat as someone on Missing-Lynx produced a periscope sight from a StuG that was still in it's box. That was enough evidence for me :)

Also it makes me laff about people obsessing over exact paint shades cos the weathing process tones down colours anyway....a bit like forking out £30 for highly detailed metal tracks then covering them in mud :D

Hi Andy, I think you misunderstood me, you quoted me in part and then went

on to make the point that I had already made.

I said that there was at least 3 shades of dk yellow, and I didnt bother to

mention fading or scale as I assume that most modellers are aware of these factors.

I know the mushroom colour you refer to and that is not included in the 3 or so dk yellow

varieties I mentioned,these had a definate yellow hue and even a slight green tint.

So Andy I have already said it.

It is up to the individual and what pleases them.

And NOT to get anal about it because when you take all the factors, ie changing specs,shortages,

duff paint,(yes paint firms do turn out dodgy batches) also substitution like buff and mushroom.

There was so much variation that almost anything within reason is possible.

Even the people who were there could not tell you the WHOLE story

To sum it up I will repeat myself and say I all for people doing what please them,

and or a bit of creative speculation based on a little or as much research as they want.

As for well documented panzers you still could never a 100% accurate model, there is always

a pic or two that you would need, and with B&W it is still down to supposition and speculation.

Posted
You HAVE to take into account that the German tank factories were getting hammered day and night by the Allied bombing, the priority was to get the tanks out to the field so it's a safe bet that anything could have been slapped on to at least cover the metal.

Picture taken of the factory when captured at wars end producing Jagdpanzer 38's.

tumblr_le5omnvBZt1qfviqbo1_400.jpg

Seems like they had plenty of paint and the time to apply the intricate pattern so often seen on the Jagdpanzer 38. :D

Posted

Ok fair enough, Wayne I understand you and I was'nt trying to cause offence. Alan good pic, you made your point. I get it you don't buy the theory about paint shortages.

Posted
Ok fair enough, Wayne I understand you and I was'nt trying to cause offence. Alan good pic, you made your point. I get it you don't buy the theory about paint shortages.

Hi Andy no offence taken.

I dont think Alanmac was saying that paint shortages had no effect, that pic of the

Hetzers shows a standard factory scheme being used at that period and AFAIK used pre war

Czech paint, I mentioned this in an earlier post in this thread, this camo is what I and many

other panzer modellers believe it to be, ie Czech paint.

This is even more evidence of paint shortages.

Shortages of official panzer paints have been mentioned by many respected authors and

researchers. Orders were given to be sparing in applying camo, and as you can imagine

confusion and misunderstandings led to much variation, there is much debate about the use

of primer.

Some believe that when the orders went out to stop base coating panzers dk yellow in mid/late

44 (it was ordered that camo paint to be done at the factory directly on to the red primer)

that some tanks were sent out with green and yellow and red primer,

eg it is possible that some Tiger II with the ambush camo had primer as a third colour instead of

the official red brown. It seems that some of these KT had a buff mushroom? paint instead of dk yellow.

Hetzer built in late 44 ambush may have had the buff colour,

the Czech paint in the may 45 pic is also a buff type paint.

Posted (edited)
Hi Andy no offence taken.

I dont think Alanmac was saying that paint shortages had no effect, that pic of the

Hetzers shows a standard factory scheme being used at that period and AFAIK used pre war

Czech paint, I mentioned this in an earlier post in this thread, this camo is what I and many

other panzer modellers believe it to be, ie Czech paint.

This is even more evidence of paint shortages.

Shortages of official panzer paints have been mentioned by many respected authors and

researchers. Orders were given to be sparing in applying camo, and as you can imagine

confusion and misunderstandings led to much variation, there is much debate about the use

of primer.

Some believe that when the orders went out to stop base coating panzers dk yellow in mid/late

44 (it was ordered that camo paint to be done at the factory directly on to the red primer)

that some tanks were sent out with green and yellow and red primer,

eg it is possible that some Tiger II with the ambush camo had primer as a third colour instead of

the official red brown. It seems that some of these KT had a buff mushroom? paint instead of dk yellow.

Hetzer built in late 44 ambush may have had the buff colour,

the Czech paint in the may 45 pic is also a buff type paint.

Now another modeller reading this passes the contents of the post on, leaving out the contextual words I've highlighted in bold, and it goes from debate and possibility to "that's how it was ". :winkgrin:

I believe I answered the original posters question accurately and correctly, which was................

"I have seen many different camo schemes on the Brummbar but never a panzer gray scheme. Has anyone seen one?"

My reply

"No, never seen one. "

Thus far nobody has said yes they have, plenty of..... could be's, maybe's , possibles, but none saying "Yes, and here it is with inserted image or link" :P

Happy Modelling

Alan :D

Edited by alanmac
Posted

You have made a very good point Alan,

I have been into German armour since 1970, and every few years there is a new wave of

thought on the subject.

Up until the late 80s I went with the idea that post 43 most panzers were leaving the factory

in dk yellow and had the camo applied by the unit.

I noticed that the schemes were mostly soft edge and I tried to achieve this with brush until

I could afford an airbrush.

At that time is was current thinking that some vehicles were back to pz grey in 1945.

These ideas were perpetuated by colour plates in books by sqn signal etc.

It was only when my reference library grew did I start to notice hardedge and other factory

camo schemes.

There are so many books and so much more detailed research available now,

but I refuse to take anything as gospel.

As you said earlier Alan, its a hobby and there is very little point in getting too stressed

about whether your Das Reich Tiger is 100% accurate or not.

I enjoy doing a little research, but then Im happy to make a model that seems to me

to be typical, probable, or possible.

Often with a little artistic licence thrown in, eg the Hetzers in your very nice pic, as you said

have had time and trouble with the paintwork, I noticed some have been painted and minus

the main armament,

Based on your pic I may make a Hetzer with the full Czech paintjob, and leave the gun and mantlet

etc in another colour, ie dk yellow, or one of the primer colours.

And in my mind it would be one of the last ones sent out before the factory was overrun.

Posted

Hi Wayne

If you are considering a Jagdpanzer 38 (the turtle with attitude) and you haven't one in your collection of un-built kits then maybe give the new Academy one a try. I've the Tamiya one, which is more a mid production, very nice, good detail, but if you can't get it cheap on ebay etc. I don't think its worth the retail price asked for it. Mind you I think that about most kits these days.............

It's a late variant, fitting into your time frame and it certainly looks okay before building as these show.

In Box Review

In Box Review 2

I'm very tempted but spent well in excess of my "pocket money" this month already so it'll have to wait..........

Alan

Posted

Thanks Alan,

I agree Tamiya are overpriced and Dragon get most of my pocket money these days.

The Academy kit looks good and yes late war is my thing mostly.

I find it interesting because there is a lack of info compared with the

early period.

And thanks for the Russian Ferdinand site, very good pics.

  • 1 month later...
Posted
Why not paint it blue with red spots. Who's to say because there isn't photographic evidence it never happened ....... :lol:

Alternatively you could paint it red and white and use decals from a Tamiya F1 car? That would be funky!

However, and speaking realistically Germans changed their idea of camo once in Feb 1943, saying all vehicles should be Dark yellow and then red brown and or green, and then again in November 1944 saying that all vehicles should just be done in Olive Green. Again with the use of artistic licence you could do a brumbar with just bare metal or just red oxide having just been made, factory fresh so to speak! I have never seen a panzer grey vehicle made at the end of the war, but with the end of the war being chaotic as it was it is quite possible the Germans did have a few running around. You need to look at the dates of when brumbars were made to get an accurate paint idea. What about whitewashing one?

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