davidelvy Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 That we've arrived at HM Armed Forces being described as "brands" is just farcical and far from protecting the high standards they aspire to and the people who wear and die in the uniform, it cheapens them in the name of a fast buck. I wonder if the farce will continue with sponsorship deals - e.g. "This military intervention has been brought to you in association with AXA Insurance." "Humanitarian aid supplied in association with Burger King." Basically it seems this company have sold to the MOD their own Identity!! And the smooth talking that goes with it sound typical gobbledegook even sucked in MPs!! To sell an identity you have to define it. Previously we all knew what the RAF was and did, though we all might have understood it in slightly different ways. That is why you end up with companies like Jarvis using language most of us would probably view as ridiculous, but obviously means something in the world of marketing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thx6667 Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Future wars may require both parties to agree to licensing and image rights, apparently a disagreement over the split of monies is what's stopping the US and North Korea from kicking off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heloman1 Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Maybe if we just ignore it, it will go away! Then we can get on with the very serious matter of modelling. Colin on the Africa Station Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyraider3D Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Maybe if we just ignore it, it will go away! Sadly it didn't go away. Quite the contrary! Last year the Australian armed forces had a fit and all my RAAF-related products were pulled from my Zazzle web shop. Now, last week, the USAF(!) are at it! Since USAF materials are public domain, they were nice and nothing got pulled. Instead I was given the generous opportunity to sign up with the USAF Fan Merch program. Great, except this reduces royalty rates to 10% by default. So on every $10 t-shirt I sell I make a whopping dollar (and the webshop no doubt makes five times as much). In other words: totally not worth the effort anymore. Nice how us independent artist lot always get screwed over with these things... and from our own tax money as well. So, anyone who wants stuff from my store (link in my signature), get it now as chances are I'll close it before the month is out. First the RAF, then the RAAF, now the USAF. I'm sick and tired of this nonsense... I'm going to do Messerschmitts from now on, see if anyone has the filthy guts to claim trademark on swastikas! Those trademark nazis... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Bird Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 I'm going to do Messerschmitts from now on, see if anyone has the filthy guts to claim trademark on swastikas! The swastika was trademarked in 1881 by our friends at the Carlsberg brewery. http://www.carlsberggroup.com/Company/heritage/Pages/CarlJacobsenstrademark1881.aspx Cheers, Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyraider3D Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Ha, nice find! I doubt they'll be enforcing their trademark though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingo Degenhardt Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Just found this thread and it's unbelievable. I wonder if this kind of thing goes for the german 'Eiserne Kreuz' (Lufwaffe national insignia) too? By the way do not try to sell your Messerschmitts to Germany - at least not with a swastika on them. It's forbidden (althout for other reasons) over here. You can't even have one on your model at a model show. If there is one on it, you have to cover it. The police patrols model shows frequently for this. This strangely does not go for the movie people - they may have them in their movies by the score - for authenticism and because it's art. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goose Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Just found this thread and it's unbelievable. I wonder if this kind of thing goes for the german 'Eiserne Kreuz' (Lufwaffe national insignia) too? By the way do not try to sell your Messerschmitts to Germany - at least not with a swastika on them. It's forbidden (althout for other reasons) over here. You can't even have one on your model at a model show. If there is one on it, you have to cover it. The police patrols model shows frequently for this. This strangely does not go for the movie people - they may have them in their movies by the score - for authenticism and because it's art. What? didn't know this good grief? what is going on next thing any kits on display will have to have roundels covered too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyraider3D Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 What? didn't know this good grief? what is going on next thing any kits on display will have to have roundels covered too In Germany the swastika is forbidden, which is why you don't see swastikas on box art or on decal sheets and kit instructions (although some manufacturers put a split version on there, so non-German modellers still have the option to add them). It's a different discussion really, so no worries, you can keep putting roundels on your Spitfire kits (for the time being ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyot Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Are all types of RAF roundel covered by copyright? What about the wartime A1, B, C, C1 Types? Surely it only covers the current D Type,...which is oddly enough the one that they hardly ever use anymore as they use red and blue tactical markings on aircraft which should have a proper roundel. The low viz red and blue or pink and light blue roundels are the most common. RAF roundels are a minefield and surely they would need a copyright on each particular type? I did worry about this when the RAF began to speak `Business English' during the 90`s, did anybody else notice how the RAF Yearbook suddenly became full of gobbaldygook `brown nose' speak? Cheers Tony 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spitfire31 Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 What worries me is, what will happen to Spitfire beer? Do they have to rename it 'Schpitzfeuer' and change the roundel to a red/white/blue square? Money is the root of… most evil. Kind regards, Joachim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew March Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 (edited) They can kiss my Artistic bottom if they think I am going to stop doing art! I will continue to create what I want, when I want. Dassault Systems contacted me four years ago and told me to stop doing images of thier Rafale, I told them to Foxtrot Oscar! Edited March 8, 2015 by Andrew March 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyraider3D Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 They can kiss my Artistic bottom if they think I am going to stop doing art! I will continue to create what I want, when I want. Dassault Systems contacted me four years ago and told me to stop doing images of thier Rafale, I told them to Foxtrot Oscar! Usually cease & desist letters can be ignored if you live in a different country than the company who's product you portray. It's no guarantee you get away with it though... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avro683 Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 The now defunct(sadly) Aviation Workshop had to label their decal sheets "UK Air Arm" for similar reasons. They were permitted to call all the other nation's air forces by their recognized titles but not our own! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procopius Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 The now defunct(sadly) Aviation Workshop had to label their decal sheets "UK Air Arm" for similar reasons. They were permitted to call all the other nation's air forces by their recognized titles but not our own! This strikes me as improbable, given that the aircraft the sheet was depicting would still have retained RAF markings and titles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robvulcan Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Is this rubbish still going on now where decals may have to be no longer produced etc. I remember this from a few years ago with Privatized rail companies denying models being made of their liveries saying it was a copyright infringement (missing the point of it being free advertising) . If it is still happening I think its utterly pathetic and a pedantic interpretation of the law over common sense ( Well thats what the law is often anyways ) By people so obsessed with order and the interpretation of the written word that how it affects people lives does not matter. The Headline "Man arrested for huge RAF model collection" sounds utterly ridiculous. Imagine the news article that would follow: "The man, 43 from dunney on the wold was arrested in the early hours of yesterday morning after suspicion he was hording a huge supply of RAF model kits, Police found he was in possession of hundreds of models featuring RAF insignia. Neighbors where interviewed and are said to be utterly shocked at the findings saying they had no idea of the monster they where living next to. Jean 50, said "I can't believe whats going on in your own street these days none of us are safe someone should do something about it". The local MP for Dunney on the Wold, RT Honorable Merryn Righteousness said "MPs are working hard to bring about new harder legislation that will tackle to issues of RAF modelling making a safer Britain no one should be subject to living next to these monsters who insist on painting Red white Blue circles, Its a hazard to society and we must protect our children from this madness" The Court Case is due next month if you have concerns or worry's of a model maker near you we have set up a 24 hour hotline that can help you, Your identity will be kept strictly confidential....." See its a mad world... 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hacker Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 (edited) Reading through this l come to this conclusion and this applies it seems to all western countries that they do this to prevent miss use of said logos. But using a wide brush to everything seems to me of a case of the employees running amok! To clarify as to who l mean as employees l am speaking of governments in general. As far as l am concern the government works for us the voting tax payers,hence this extents to all departments both civilian and military. We as the public owns the country we reside in including the government. We vote to hire these people in to run, maintain it and generally look after it. We as the voting tax payer as the employer of these people have been negligence in our duties as we seem to have let the inmates believe the own these institutions. We some how become so complasantand that we fail to fire those who fail to do their jobs properly and show the new up and coming their fate if they do the same. The above problem with this logo thing is the result of our iinattention to our employees This is my two cents Edited March 9, 2015 by hacker 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 This strikes me as improbable, given that the aircraft the sheet was depicting would still have retained RAF markings and titles. Nope, think that was indeed the case - SAM magazine did a similar thing with one of their regular feaures IIRC - & blamed threats from MoD lawyers.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew March Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Usually cease & desist letters can be ignored if you live in a different country than the company who's product you portray. It's no guarantee you get away with it though... I told them to do thier best or worst Ronnie, at which point in typical French style they promptly surrendered 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head in the clouds. Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Has anyone contacted the MOD on this? Is life worth living anymore, soon we will be pulled out of our life support pod, packed off to work to never smile,do anything artistic or original and then shoved back in our pods to do it all again tomorrow, oh what a wonderful life. I feel like my very essance is being sucked out of me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selwyn Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 As a taxpayer, and consequently a joint owner of the RAF how can I be in breach of a copyright I own? Selwyn 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 As a taxpayer, and consequently a joint owner of the RAF how can I be in breach of a copyright I own? Selwyn A question asked in the past Selwyn, & which the MoD (or their lawyers) seem disinclined to answer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truro Model Builder Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 But it is everywhere. Has anyone noticed that Revell's HMS Victory is now listed as 'British Sailing Warship' in the catalogue? I stock a line of small wooden ship models, and the manufacturer had listed a HMS Victory in their catalogue, was all ready to issue it and the owners of the ship stepped in and told they needed a licence. Presumably so do Revell, and presumably the licence to use the name is expensive enough to make even a company of their size decline. This all seems to have happened since the National Museum of the Royal Navy umbrella organisation was set up. In addition, Revell's Land Rover reissue is classified as a 'British 4x4 Off Road Vehicle' and seems to be missing the Land Rover logo on the box art. Another licensing issue, I imagine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 In addition, Revell's Land Rover reissue is classified as a 'British 4x4 Off Road Vehicle' and seems to be missing the Land Rover logo on the box art. Another licensing issue, I imagine. Land Rover is a different matter though - fair enough with private companies protecting their 'income stream' (not that I necessarily agree with it!), but it's a different matter as Selwyn points out, when 'we' own the copyright as 'we've' paid for the flaming things in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The James Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 (edited) If I'm not mistaken, RAF insignia are covered by 'Crown Copyright'. While I agree in theory that as taxpaying owners of the armed forces, we should have permission to use the roundels and insignia as we see fit, it is my understanding that the crown/gov't legally has the power here. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/48/section/163 P.S. I do however relish the possibility of a copyright case over the use of RAF insignia making it to court. I imagine the press and popular opinion would be on the defendants side, and I for one would happily make a donation towards legal costs. There is of course a difference between reproducing material for financial gain and doing so just as a hobby. Imagine a world in which, as alluded to in posts above, the only insignia that could be reproduced without fear of copyright infringement was the Nazi swastika! I despair... Edited March 16, 2015 by The James 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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