alex Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 It would be interesting to learn what the crash investigation report states. Are military crash investigations published freely... or do we have to wait until it shows up on wikileaks? Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbuna Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 It'll all come out in the wash/report me thinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smeds Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 (edited) How can you possibly say that? This sort of off the cuff, ill informed, amateur armchair analysis really gets on my wick. He may well have not been authorised for the initial flyby but who's to say the cause of the accident wasn't technical malfunction, control restriction, pilot incapacitation? It could be all manor of things. Have you examined the wreckage, interviewed the crew, sought technical advice from SME's (subject matter experts), looked at all the other video/camera footage, investigated sabotage/SAFIRE, gathered evidence from the squadron and chain of command? Thought not. Every military accident is thoroughly investigated and everything is considered until ruled out by EVIDENCE.Having been involved in military aviation for over 20 years I know these things are rarely as simple as the conclusion you have come to by watching some footage on a little screen. Please desist from jumping to conclusions however feel free to comment once you have read the full DoD aircraft mishap report when released. Absolutely bang on mate This sort of arrogant post gets on my wick. Most people on this forum are neither pilots nor in the military however it would be a dull place if we were not permitted to talk freely about military aviation. Perhaps we should all ask your permission before posting? Oh wait we don't have to because you are not in charge of us.Darius Erm, its a discussion forum Exactly we are all entitled to an opinion. some might not like it but thats life.Julien Agreed Julien, as you said ALL entitled to an opinion Edited March 24, 2012 by smeds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtd350 Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Are military crash investigations published freely... or do we have to wait until it shows up on wikileaks? Alex I'm sure some of the Aircraft mags publish crash reports................eventually Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haggis Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 (edited) Cheers Smeds. OK, I'm a helo ignoramus, but my initial question would be if the pilot was experiencing problems, were there not other places in his immediate vicinity he could have aimed his Apache rather than a building and/or people on the ground? Maybe, maybe not. Maybe he didn't have a choice. Being a Lynx pilot, there are some nasty possible malfunctions which leave you minimal time where the aircraft is heading down and you have limited time and manoeuverability to effect a safe as possible touchdown. All this man-vegetables you here of stricken pilots avoiding the local abandoned kitten sanctuary are just that, man-vegetables. It never enters your head; with jets (I've done 2 tours) you make that last decision at the appropriate time to save your life and whatever is in front of you is irrelevant (unless it's a pre-meditated ejection where there is usually a pre-determined point on the coast). Are military crash investigations published freely... In the UK, yes. Since the Haddon-Cave report a couple of years ago the MoD has changed it's policy and all accident reports will be freely available. In fact, very soon you'll be able to look at each and every minor incident on line, everything, right down to a light bulb failure. The theory being that the MoD has nothing to hide. For obvious reasons though, there will be sometimes some operational security issues from time to time but these will be rare. The MAA was set up to oversee all this sort of thing. Military Aviation Authority Edited March 24, 2012 by Haggis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynx7 Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Cheers Smeds.Maybe, maybe not. Maybe he didn't have a choice. Being a Lynx pilot, there are some nasty possible malfunctions which leave you minimal time where the aircraft is heading down and you have limited time and manoeuverability to effect a safe as possible touchdown. All this man-vegetables you here of stricken pilots avoiding the local abandoned kitten sanctuary are just that, man-vegetables. It never enters your head; with jets (I've done 2 tours) you make that last decision at the appropriate time to save your life and whatever is in front of you is irrelevant (unless it's a pre-meditated ejection where there is usually a pre-determined point on the coast). In the UK, yes. Since the Haddon-Cave report a couple of years ago the MoD has changed it's policy and all accident reports will be freely available. In fact, very soon you'll be able to look at each and every minor incident on line, everything, right down to a light bulb failure. The theory being that the MoD has nothing to hide. For obvious reasons though, there will be sometimes some operational security issues from time to time but these will be rare. The MAA was set up to oversee all this sort of thing. Military Aviation Authority Chill, mate. This isn't Pprune... I agree with your stance regarding speculation but this is a modelling forum and I'm sure the chaps here are merely remarking on what they are seeing in the video. And I doubt anything said here will prejudice a US Army BoI. My pennies worth... Heavy cab, high DA, zero wind, impromptu whazz = ran out of sky. V lucky not to kill anyone one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhoenixII Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Chill, mate. This isn't Pprune...My pennies worth... Heavy cab, high DA, zero wind, impromptu whazz = ran out of sky. V lucky not to kill anyone one. And we're back to speculation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynx7 Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 And we're back to speculation! I'm sorry...you should have let me know we had formed a BoI and any post made here had to be based on fact, evidence etc just in case the US Army decided to do a search on the internet to find out what happened. I thought we were on a little modelling forum discussing a video clip? As I said previously, I too dislike the speculation you usually find on Prune from armchair pundits but would you agree this is a little different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExRAF Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 I like to read what people think about incidents such as this, and then form my own opinion. Now whether I choose to air it or not is another matter, but I have no problem with those who do as long as it appears to be done with appropriate sensitivity (such as the Red Arrows posts of recent months). One of the strengths of this site is that it is very different to Pprune - and I hope it always will be. And after that, my opinion of the incident? Jammy bu**ers! (Both on the ground and in the cab). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darius at Home Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 (edited) Erm, its a discussion forum Indeed, and I believe that we were discussing what gets on our respective wicks. Darius Edited March 24, 2012 by Darius at Home Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julien Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 And we're back to speculation! I would hazardous a guess but its a lot more informed from that poster than say me! I personally am happy to hear all sides, I just dont like people telling me that I sohould not specualte and that we cant have an open discussion about these things. I think we are genrally all adult enough for that. Julien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Point one. None of us were there and it is wrong to speculate. Point two. None of us were there and it is human nature to speculate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skids Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Well speculating I think that the pilot was doing a low fly by when the copilot said "Holy Sh*t they got an outside jacuzzi AND a mini bar" At which point the pilot said "Hold on to yours boots we got a party to crash" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oggy4624 Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Well I'm all for a bit of good ole' speculation until the boi publishes and dig that cool swirly bit at the end - new ride at alton towers anyone? ALL american mil a/c should have at least 5 cameras - they do have the most spectacular crashes and you could recoup the cost of the crash in DVD sales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julien Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 ALL american mil a/c should have at least 5 cameras - they do have the most spectacular crashes and you could recoup the cost of the crash in DVD sales. Nice one! The Lastest from DoD DVD "Apache carwheel" Julien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynx7 Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Well I'm all for a bit of good ole' speculation until the boi publishes and dig that cool swirly bit at the end - new ride at alton towers anyone?ALL american mil a/c should have at least 5 cameras - they do have the most spectacular crashes and you could recoup the cost of the crash in DVD sales. S'funny you should say that. The USAF used to have a travelling Flight Safety Roadshow and they had a very comprehensive crash vid. Lots of gun cam footage and range footage of accidents all to the tune of Elvis's Viva Las Vegas. I think the vid was actually called Viva Las Vegas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now