New Tiger Moths and Hurricanes IIc in 1/72 by AZ model

[Ed Russell]

One problem of model Airacobras is that every 1/72 and 1/48 model looks different. There is a lot of risk attached to picking an existing one and "re-mastering" it.

For instance , don't use the Academy/Hobbyboss one

because it doesn't look much like a real one, especially the canopy, air intake, forward fuselage, wheel doors, propeller and tail.

There are a few preserved P-39's around - a decent model would require starting from scratch using one or more of them.

Edited March 10, 2012 by Ed Russell

[Jan Polc]

Well, Cobra is new tool, not remastered one... To the stencils - in the end we refused to include them on the decal sheet, as references are quite different - some states that stencils were red, some that stencils were black, the same with rectangles, as some references states these as white, some as "US Sky". The shade we used on the box is close to the color photo published in Schiffer´s book. Don´t forget, that thanks to print tolerances etc are the shades of colours really only informative.

But I will ask Petr if there is time space to add stencils to the sheet, as I recognised that it is serious question for more than one of you. Depends on the today status of decal sheet. If it is at the printer, it is too late, but I will solve it ASAP.

[feddawg]

One comment as it applies to the Aircobra, if the kit shares the drawings used to illustrate the schemes the shape of the wing tips are incorrect. Its hard to tell the shape of the elevators, they look better but still not the correct shape. 72nd scale has been poorly served for the last 30 years with clone and copies of the Heller kit, your color scheme drawings contain some of those same errors.

Edited March 11, 2012 by feddawg

[Jan Polc]

Color drawings on the box are not a technical drawings used for tooling, don´t be afraid. In fact, I used some 3-view and re-draw it in vector editor... Maybe I used the same as Heller in the past... :-)

[Nick Millman]

Well, Cobra is new tool, not remastered one... To the stencils - in the end we refused to include them on the decal sheet, as references are quite different - some states that stencils were red, some that stencils were black, the same with rectangles, as some references states these as white, some as "US Sky". The shade we used on the box is close to the color photo published in Schiffer´s book. Don´t forget, that thanks to print tolerances etc are the shades of colours really only informative.

But I will ask Petr if there is time space to add stencils to the sheet, as I recognised that it is serious question for more than one of you. Depends on the today status of decal sheet. If it is at the printer, it is too late, but I will solve it ASAP.

Bell's own factory drawing and specification make it clear that all the stencil lettering was to be applied in black. The idea of black or red lettering on white panels comes from "Camouflage & Markings No.12" and is probably based on an imperfect interpretation of monochrome photos at the time. Colour photographic slides of 601 Sqn Cobras in the possession of Getty Images show clearly that the black stencils are on panels of the original Bell paint colours, including the under surface 71-021 colour. I can appreciate that such small stencils might be best ignored in 1/72nd scale but the point I was making was about the original under surface colour and the way the high demarcation was over-painted. Not all early Cobra deliveries had the high demarcation of AH 621 and not all 601's aircraft had the stencil rectangles on the nose as a result. It just so happens the two subjects chosen for the kit did.

The shade of Sky on the box is not at all "close" to the colour photo in the Schiffer book (if you mean 'Cobra!'). That is closer to MAP Sky Blue than MAP Sky. Not that I'd recommend using printed colour images to gauge original paint colour anyway. Still at least the profile on the box doesn't show the light grey being suggested by most East European kit manufacturers.

And I agree with Ed and feddawg. The colour profiles on the box have the squashed canopy, flattened central fuselage, elongated shape and over large fin and rudder of the Heller clone kits. If the drawings used reflect that appearance the kit will be wrong. You could do worse than master from the old Frog kit which managed to get the fuselage shape almost spot on. In fact if you could find the old Frog Airacobra molds rusting away in Russia somewhere you could just re-issue that with engraved panel lines - it would probably be easier to build as well. ;-)

[Jan Polc]

Well, you are right, among my references is that Ducimus book, where they talk about red stencils with white rectangles...

Once again - to the colours (shades) - imagine that it is drawn in CMYK model for print, then changed (recalculated) to RGB model for electronical presentation and then once again recalculated to less colour depth for web optimalisation. So, take the shades as informative..., thanks to these process of recalculations is not possible to get the right shade. In the instructions is written, that at the factory they used Du Pont line of paints which were not the same as MAP equvivalents. As short runs are for experienced modellers, I hope they will check their own references for right shades. For next releases we discuss now to include FS codes in the instructions. But also this is not easy, as references vary very much in FS numbers, reference to reference.

I was checking the shapes of Cobra and well, I am not so accurate, but, imagine - my sideviews are practically identical with Eduard ones... :-) Once again, don´t be afraid, for tooling AZ model used another references, not my drawings. I understand I am a little bit incorrect in the shape, but as it is colour and marking guide only, try to live with it... I do my apologise once again :-)

Jan

[feddawg]

Thank you for checking on that Jan, I understand that markings guides are often made from different drawings than the kit. I just thought it was worth bringing to your attention.

[GrzeM]

Hi AZ-team!

Please, check also the "panel lines" on the fin and tailplanes, the arc where fabric covered surface meets the solid reinforced leading edge. In your master there is a recessed line there, both on fin and the tailplanes. In fact there was no "line" there. Just behind the leading edge reinforcement the fabric was starting to sag between the ribs. You can see that here:

[Giorgio N]

Jan, I think it's very good and potentially very exciting to have guys from a company like AZ taking part in discussions on a modelling forum like this ready to take on comments on future products under developments. This can potentially bring to even better model kits in the future. Wish you best of luck with our future kits !!!

Regarding your request for discussion on other subjects, I immediately noticed the Spitfire schemes and saw that one of the options suggested is a aircraft i recently enquired about on this very same forum: MT687 of 451 Sqn RAAF based in Italy in 1944.

Here below you can find the discussion and my opinion on the subject (that is that I believe this was not in brown and green but in the standard day fighter scheme of ocean grey/dark green over medium sea grey)

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.p...60&hl=mt687

Edited March 12, 2012 by Giorgio N

[Jan Polc]

Many thanks to Giorgio for comments on spit.

We were taking Kagero as our reference and consulted with "spitologist"... Also the now defunct company Tally Ho! released their Mk. VIII sheet with DG/DE scheme and owner of Tally Ho was very involved in Australian Spitfires, even in contact with Australian pilots - veterans.

That is why we choosed DG/DE scheme, as in references is stated clearly it was repainted after transfer from Corsica... Anyway, decals are the same for DFS or Temperate scheme..., so it is your personal choice what scheme to apply.

But of course your comment will be duscussed once again and maybe we will change trhe scheme on box.

[GrzeM]

You may also apply the 'fully scientific' attitude to the debatable painting schemes - showing both options for modeler to choose from.

I must warn you, that Wojtek Matusiak, great and really trustworthy specialist of the Spitfires, has sometimes debatable ideas about interpretation of the painting schemes based on photographs examination - but he also openly admits, what is a base of his opinions. Once he's even gave three possible schemes for one plane used in Africa (MSG/DG, MS/DE, DE/DG). If anybody is interested, I may give examples, but rather in other thread.

Edited March 12, 2012 by GrzeM

[DaveCS]

I've got quite a few of the Pavla kits in my stash (including the Miles Master, D.H. 82C Tiger Moth ) and I am just finishing off the Cessna T-50. "Remastering" these kits would be a good thing I think. The Pavla kits, while of interesting and unique subjects, have been challenging to make but I admire them because of this. I hope that the AZ remastered kits are a bit more "refined" and not merely reboxings of the old Pavla kits. Either way though, I always liked Pavla's choice of subject matter and it will be good to see what can be done with them

Cheers,

Dave

[Peter AZmodel/Admiral]

I've got quite a few of the Pavla kits in my stash (including the Miles Master, D.H. 82C Tiger Moth ) and I am just finishing off the Cessna T-50. "Remastering" these kits would be a good thing I think. The Pavla kits, while of interesting and unique subjects, have been challenging to make but I admire them because of this. I hope that the AZ remastered kits are a bit more "refined" and not merely reboxings of the old Pavla kits. Either way though, I always liked Pavla's choice of subject matter and it will be good to see what can be done with them

Cheers,

Dave

Dear Dave, all our models, which come from Pavla model are practically brand new models. None reboxing. Our company bought a complete range of plastic models of the company. Better to say .. we bought the masters for inspiration. Thus, we had several masters purchased from the company CMR.

Furthermore, I want to apologize to all those present for a little time here. I now have a lot of work

starting with the forms for new models Spitfire VIII,VII and Hurricane IIc.

Perhaps next week we will introduce the first testshots.

Cheers

Petr AZ Muzikant

[DaveCS]

Thanks Petr !!!

It is appreciated. Thank you for the explanation. I look forward to the new kits!

Cheers,

Dave

[Jan Polc]

Hi all,

let me give you some updates with Hurricanes Mk. IIc:

Boxart for Night fighters:

And, as we were wrong with Keith Park´s Hurricane, it was not Mk. IIc, we changed cammo schemes in the box:

Leroy Du Vivier changed Keith Park.

First Hurricanes will be available in mid April, we hope.

Jan

[XV571]

Hi Jan,

A couple of points on the 43 Sqn markings: nice to see you got Sqn Ldr du Vivier's emblem underneath the canopy on both sides - this was missed by Airfix! However the codes on BN230 were white during the Dieppe raid. These are correctly depicted on the Hurricane in the museum at RAF Manston who used Jimmy Beedle (author of the official squadron history and ground crew from 1939-1947) as technical advisor. There's also a white 'A' on the lower nose. Here's a link to some pictures of the Manston museum Hurricane:

http://www.abpic.co.uk/search.php?q=BN230%...p;u=code_number

Really looking forward to seeing your Hurricanes!

Jonathan

[Test Graham]

This thread seems to have bogged down on the Hurricane. No bad thing in itself, but has the Tiger Moth proceeded to the stage where the artwork is being produced? Just curious, and not wishing to apply any pressure, let it come when it does, but that aspect of the original posting seems to have gone quiet.

[Jan Polc]

OOps, I am atfaid it is late with Hurricane, but I will try to correct. My references are talking about sky codes... I am sorry for that. I will do my the best.

Tiger Moths - it is subject of second half of the year. In progress. I have no detail info at the moment, but I will ask and inform you.

[CzechKits.com]

Something more to discuss... :-)

Na tu kobru se těším Honzo jak malej.-))

[Test Graham]

I would argue, based on long discussions elsewhere (notably Hyperscale) and particularly Nick Millman's researches, that the underside colour on AH521 was not true Sky but a greyer Du Pont colour called "Sky Type S Grey". This colour appears as pale blue or pale grey or Sky in photos taken under different conditions. Nick does have a jpeg with a close match to it.

[olda homola]

test shots of Hurri IIc...

http://www.modelarovo.cz/hurricane-mk-iic-...tovaci-vylisky/

[occa]

test shots of Hurri IIc...

http://www.modelarovo.cz/hurricane-mk-iic-...tovaci-vylisky/

Allow me a bit of critics, the fabric effect on the fuselage does not exactly look right + the canopy frames appear much too broad.

Shapewise it looks very good IMO

[Seahawk]

... the canopy frames appear much too broad.

That's my only beef (so far!) with the otherwise very nice AZ Hurricane IVs: it's especially marked with the frame along the bottom of the canopy. I have yet to find out whether any of the aftermarket alternatives would fit or how well the canopies respond to sanding the frames off and reglossing. If the canopies are the same in the Hurricane IIc, it would put me off a bit, to be honest, because the canopy is usually the focus of the model. I hope there is time/inclination to correct.

Edited April 1, 2012 by Seahawk

[CarLos]

Allow me a bit of critics, the fabric effect on the fuselage does not exactly look right

I second this. Its so noticeable and so easy to do mainly in places without double curvature... Just place stringers (preferably metal) and putty between them, sand and that's all... The fabric only sags in flight, and not the amount usually depicted.

[atvd1020]

The Hurricane IICs, labelled "AZ Legato Quick-build Series 1/72", have gone up as Future Releases on Hannants.