New Tiger Moths and Hurricanes IIc in 1/72 by AZ model

[Jan Polc]

Hi Peter,

I currently have the Pavla Tigermoth in my stash - specifically to build the RCAF version (with full canopy) - I was curious what the following statement means:

"New decals" is obvious but what does "fully remastered" mean?

Thank you,

Dave

Fully remastered means more details and better fit. So the plastic is quite another thing than old Pavla kit. But in this new issue we do not have Closed canopy and "C" type struts...

To the Cessna line - I am right now collecting references to create first boxes (instructions) and decals. If there is any personal wish and good reference on subject, send me na PM here on Britmodeller.

I also would like to express my thanks to everybody, who picked minor mistakes in instructions, everything will be corrected.

To the fit problems with older fabric wing Hurricane - it was completely another kit, AZ model will now come with new molding.

[DaveCS]

<snip>Fully remastered means more details and better fit. So the plastic is quite another thing than old Pavla kit. But in this new issue we do not have Closed canopy and "C" type struts...</snip>

This makes me happy and sad at the same time

Now the question would be, merge the two kits to get the "best kit possible" (i.e. the old Pavla with the canopy - I'm unsure if it had the struts but I am going to "assume" it did - I don't like using that word) or just suffer with the old Pavla kit as is...

The reason this is important to me is the fact I stick to RCAF subjects.. it helps limit the amount of kits I end up buying (but if you looked at the stash you'd never know it )

Cheers,

Dave

[Scott Hemsley]

This makes me happy and sad at the same time

Now the question would be, merge the two kits to get the "best kit possible" (i.e. the old Pavla with the canopy - I'm unsure if it had the struts but I am going to "assume" it did - I don't like using that word) or just suffer with the old Pavla kit as is...

The reason this is important to me is the fact I stick to RCAF subjects.. it helps limit the amount of kits I end up buying (but if you looked at the stash you'd never know it )

Cheers,

Dave

I know that feeling, oh-so-well, Dave. I also limit my kit purchases to RCAF subjects for the same reason.

Anyway, getting back to the new Tiger Moth and the lack of the 'Canadian canopy', etc. ... if AZ is reworking the Pavla kit, remember that Pavla originally issued two variants of the Tiger Moth. The first one was a DH.82A which featured an 'open' cockpit, like the Airfix kit. Then they followed that up with a DH.82C ... a RCAF version of the Tiger Moth. That one featured the enclosed cockpit.

From the discussion here, it sounds as if AZ have taken and reworked Pavla's DH-82A kit.

I'd also point out, that if one visits the Pavla web site (at least just to see the difference in the two releases...), the DH-82A Tiger Moth is now listed under the 'Sold out' kits - which I take to mean, discontinued. Their DH-82C (RCAF) Tiger Moth is still listed as part of their current catalogue, though.

Scott

Edited March 8, 2012 by Scott Hemsley

[CarLos]

I'd also point out, that if one visits the Pavla web site (at least just to see the difference in the two releases...), the DH-82A Tiger Moth is now listed under the 'Sold out' kits - which I take to mean, discontinued. Their DH-82C (RCAF) Tiger Moth is still listed as part of their current catalogue, though.

I suspect that the differences are small - apart from the canopy, tubular struts instead of wooden ones, I don't know if the "A" kit has resin skis...

The plastic is the same, much probably. They have it in stock because it didn't sold as the other, my guess.

Carlos

[DaveCS]

Yep Scott,

I have the DH.82C kit but I haven't opened it and looked at it in ages. And it's not like I don't have a decent real one nearby (Canadian Warplane Heritage in Hamilton is only about an hour down the road) that I could at least photograph and get close to in order to compare/detail etc.

Anywho.. I'm willing to wait and see what AZ brings out..

Cheers,

Dave

[John Thompson]

a) No

Past performance is a legitimate guide to furure quality

c) As someone who 1. Supplied information on the Vengeance to A-Z, 2. Retailed A-Z products 3. Deflected some of the less informed criticism of his products I reckon I have the right to comment.

Ed, please don't get me wromg - I'm not dissing you, and it seems that you have good reasons to be cautious. I do have to say, though, that I think it's very commendable for Jan and Peter to come out on an open forum like this to look for input from modelbuilders. How many times in the past have we wished that manufacturers would look for (and respond to, of course) the comments and advice of their customers? Now someone has actually taken the risk of doing it, and I think it's great!

(My judgement could be slightly affected by the possibility of that Yak-1b, of course... )

BR;

John

[The wooksta V2.0]

I fully agree, although the sheer volume of Spitfires over the past few years may cloud my judgement too!

Would there be any chance of a Tempest I or Martin Baker MB5?

[Procopius]

Martin Baker MB5?

Heavens, yes please.

[tonyot]

Btw the spinner of the IIc night Fighter coded LK-A should be yellow not red, the same mistake has been done on every earlier release from all other manufacturers.

How I know this?

There is a color photo of that aircraft on page 62 in Freeman's The R. A. F. of WW 2 in Color.

Its more of an orange colour really, not Yellow?

Cheers

Tony O

Sorry please ignore this post, I`ve just noticed the comments saying the same earlier on!

Edited March 8, 2012 by tonyot

[John Thompson]

Martin Baker MB5?

That sounds like a great suggestion to me - I'd think it would be a very good seller. The only ones I can remember in 1/72 are all long unavailable - Skybirds 86, Pegasus, and a Falcon vacuform. Yes <blush!>, I have them all, but I'd still be willing to buy a new release if it appeared. The MB5 was about the hottest-looking thing on wings, even in the early jet era.

John

[Peter AZmodel/Admiral]

That sounds like a great suggestion to me - I'd think it would be a very good seller. The only ones I can remember in 1/72 are all long unavailable - Skybirds 86, Pegasus, and a Falcon vacuform. Yes <blush!>, I have them all, but I'd still be willing to buy a new release if it appeared. The MB5 was about the hottest-looking thing on wings, even in the early jet era.

John

Well, Gentlemens, the Tempest I think we do not, but in MB5 1/72 two years ago we prepared together with the Spiteful. M.B.5 we do not complete. Unfortunately, while this year we do not consider the issue.

Let's see what will be interested ...

greeting

Peter AZ

[Iain Ogilvie]

To the Cessna line - I am right now collecting references to create first boxes (instructions) and decals. If there is any personal wish and good reference on subject, send me na PM here on Britmodeller.

PM sent

Iain

[woody37]

Fully remastered means more details and better fit. So the plastic is quite another thing than old Pavla kit. But in this new issue we do not have Closed canopy and "C" type struts...

To the Cessna line - I am right now collecting references to create first boxes (instructions) and decals. If there is any personal wish and good reference on subject, send me na PM here on Britmodeller.

I also would like to express my thanks to everybody, who picked minor mistakes in instructions, everything will be corrected.

To the fit problems with older fabric wing Hurricane - it was completely another kit, AZ model will now come with new molding.

Hi Jan,

It's great to see this involvement with the community, I'm sure a win/win will prevail, exciting stuff

[Jan Polc]

Hi Jan,

It's great to see this involvement with the community, I'm sure a win/win will prevail, exciting stuff

There is a lot of things now working another way in AZ model. Peter decided to discuss fully upcoming news before it is released and we have time to correct all the mistakes. The first shots are never mistakeless, that is why you have opportunity to see what is coming and discuss, correct us. The result (we hope) will be as good kit as we all wish.

So, if you find any wrong thing in cammo schemes, which is my responsibility, and maybe you have some references, don´t hesitate to contact me via PM or e-mail. We will do our the best to correct it.

Take these discussions as a little favor to you, modellers. It is easy to understand - we as a Czech company can do good kit of Czech subject, but when we are working with British subject, you have the favor with references etc... :-)

So, all your comments are carefully translated and discussed in the company.

Many thanks once again to all of you taking part in the discussion.

Jan

[Spitfire31]

There is a lot of things now working another way in AZ model. Peter decided to discuss fully upcoming news before it is released and we have time to correct all the mistakes. The first shots are never mistakeless, that is why you have opportunity to see what is coming and discuss, correct us. The result (we hope) will be as good kit as we all wish.

So, if you find any wrong thing in cammo schemes, which is my responsibility, and maybe you have some references, don´t hesitate to contact me via PM or e-mail. We will do our the best to correct it.

Take these discussions as a little favor to you, modellers. It is easy to understand - we as a Czech company can do good kit of Czech subject, but when we are working with British subject, you have the favor with references etc... :-)

So, all your comments are carefully translated and discussed in the company.

Many thanks once again to all of you taking part in the discussion.

Jan

It is very gratifying to see this new approach from AZ Models. As I remarked earlier in this thread, the past record of the AZ brand has been somewhat, er… mixed. Inviting modellers for comments like this is very welcome indeed and I'm sure that we all appreciate it.

Of course it will be beneficial, not only to us modellers but to AZ Models, since short run kits tend to cater to the more experienced and discerning modeller who reads reviews and takes active parts in online fora. ;-)

Best,

Joachim

[John Aero]

Whilst I would love to be involved in a discussion about Tiger Moths, an aeroplane of which I have a great deal of data. This is a company of who's ethics I'm am very wary of. For me to add any technical data would be a "Don't tell 'em Pike" moment". How do you take another companies kit and re-master it?

John

[occa]

Whilst I would love to be involved in a discussion about Tiger Moths, an aeroplane of which I have a great deal of data. This is a company of who's ethics I'm am very wary of. For me to add any technical data would be a "Don't tell 'em Pike" moment". How do you take another companies kit and re-master it?

John

I am sure they have an agreement with Pavla same as they did when they remade the Sword models ... nothing is stolen here lol.

Edited March 10, 2012 by occa

[upnorth]

I am sure they have an agreement with Pavla same as they did when they remade the Sword models ... nothing is stolen here lol.

I tend to agree.

The Czech model making industry is full of agreements and so forth between one company and another, very complex.

[Jan Polc]

Don´t be afraid, nothing was stolen, AZ model bought previous Pavla production, as it was with Admiral in the past. And yes, there are some agreement with Sword.

[occa]

I tend to agree.

The Czech model making industry is full of agreements and so forth between one company and another, very complex.

Yes, I just spoke with Peter Muzikant (on the Go modelling fair in Vienna) an hour ago and like Jan too said above AZ Models bought all the molds from Pavla, many will re-released by them in the future after major overworks and corrections.

Also he told me he recently visited a museum where they have a Tiger Moth and it was quite a revelation to him lol.

So I think we can expect something very good.

He is very open to criticism and suggestions and it was a pleasure to talk with him.

Edited March 10, 2012 by occa

[Jan Polc]

Something more to discuss... :-)

[upnorth]

Will that Airacobra be a new tool?

[Nick Millman]

Re AH 621, Bell painted the undersurfaces of RAF-destined Airacobras using Du Pont 71-021 paint which was not the same colour as MAP Sky. It was closer in appearance to FS 35622. When the high demarcation of the early deliveries was over-painted in the UK the original stencils on those sections, masked off, remained visible on rectangles of the original 71-021 paint and the camouflage pattern of the over-painted sections sometimes differed from the standard pattern. "Sky Lark" and 'L' both had these stencil rectangles - see photos.

Edited March 10, 2012 by Nick Millman

[Troy Smith]

Re AH 621, Bell painted the undersurfaces of RAF-destined Airacobras using Du Pont 71-021 paint which was not the same colour as MAP Sky. It was closer in appearance to FS 35622. When the high demarcation of the early deliveries was over-painted in the UK the original stencils on those sections, masked off, remained visible on rectangles of the original 71-021 paint and the camouflage pattern of the over-painted sections sometimes differed from the standard pattern. "Sky Lark" and 'L' both had these stencil rectangles - see photos.

Nick's has covered this in his excellent blog, but perhaps is too modest to link, so here the relevant pages.

http://amair4raf.blogspot.com/search?q=airacobra

cheers

T

[John Thompson]

Re AH 621, Bell painted the undersurfaces of RAF-destined Airacobras using Du Pont 71-021 paint which was not the same colour as MAP Sky. It was closer in appearance to FS 35622. When the high demarcation of the early deliveries was over-painted in the UK the original stencils on those sections, masked off, remained visible on rectangles of the original 71-021 paint and the camouflage pattern of the over-painted sections sometimes differed from the standard pattern. "Sky Lark" and 'L' both had these stencil rectangles - see photos.

One solution (at the risk of overstating the obvious) would be to print the stencil markings on a background of 71-021/FS35822, rather than expect the modelbuilder to mask off tiny rectangles to paint the background colour himself. Or print separate background patches of 71-021 that could be put in place before adding the stencils; that way, there would be the options of pre- and post-repainting schemes.

John