Couple Of Tiger Tank Questions.

[Aziraphael]

As the Dragon project moves on, all be it at a snails pace, i've another couple of questions i'd like to throw out there.

Firstly, regarding tools, towing cables, the jack etc. Were these items commonly sprayed in the tank's base coat at the factory? I've seen pictures of other peoples kits where they are and other's were they're not.

The kit's always call out for them to be painted in their "natural" state rather than, say, Dunkelgelb.

Actually, while i'm on the pioneer tool subject do you prefer to paint them on or off the vehicle? On my Pz.Kpfw. IV i chose to paint them separately then attach them with super glue before the weathering stage.

Secondly,steel road wheels. Any advice on the best way to depict these? Straight base coat with some silverish weathering on the rolling faces applied by drybrush or pencil? Or was the face more markedly metallic after a while?

Any thoughts gratefully received!

Nick.

[Andy K]

Well after many years of painting on-vehicle equipment such as jacks, crow bars, track tensioning tools etc as shiny metal things I'm beginning to go the other way and paint them in the base colour of the vehicle, albeit chipped and scratched. Anything with wooden handles (axes, shovels etc) I'll still paint with a sandy base colour then wash them over with a brown oil paint. By the way I paint them ON the model, unless of course you have working tool clamps (Tried that and gave up...FAR too fiddly).

Regarding steel roadwheels I'd rub the outer edge with graphite rather than use silver paint.

Hope this helps!

[Wayne rc]

Well after many years of painting on-vehicle equipment such as jacks, crow bars, track tensioning tools etc as shiny metal things I'm beginning to go the other way and paint them in the base colour of the vehicle, albeit chipped and scratched. Anything with wooden handles (axes, shovels etc) I'll still paint with a sandy base colour then wash them over with a brown oil paint. By the way I paint them ON the model, unless of course you have working tool clamps (Tried that and gave up...FAR too fiddly).

Regarding steel roadwheels I'd rub the outer edge with graphite rather than use silver paint.

Hope this helps!

I agree with Andy on the graphite, you can buff it and it will shine like polished steel.

I disagree with painting the tools dunklegelb but in the pre factory scheme period ie

feb 43 to sept 44 the green and brown that was applied at unit level would have been

sprayed over everything inc tow ropes,

When the tanks were painted in the factory with 2 or 3 colour camo again the tools

and cables should be in the natural state, fire extinguiser jack were painted dark yellow

by thier factories anyway, as were tow hooks. Wooden items ie jack block should be

natural wood I believe.

Some modellers inc myself will try a few what ifs.

Im building a late panther G its going to have a dark green base coat but to break up

the green which is going to have the MNH diagonal stripe camo, I will assume that the

jack and fire exting, would have been made earlier and be painted in the dark yellow.

[Aziraphael]

Thanks for the information guys. I am erring towards painting everything on the tank this time despite planning on using workable PE clamps, simply to see how it pans out.

The vehicle i'm depicting is from 1SS PZ.Abt. 101 based in Normandy in 1944 with a tri-tonal scheme. This would, if i understand correctly, put it in field applied camo period and would, therefore, had oversprayed accoutrements.

As to the road wheels, when you say "graphite" do you mean as in pencil lead? I have acquired several shades of buff-able paint from the Mr Metalliser range that are very close to pencil graphite or should i be looking at using the real stuff for a better looking finish?

Nick.

[Andy K]

Yep, graphite as in pencil lead. You can buy a graphite pencil from art shops, all I do is use a pencil sharpener to make a little pile of dust then rub it on whatever needs a metallic sheen either with a brush or my little finger

[Graeme]

this is a really difficult question to answer with any accuracy - the tools almost certainly would not be on the vehicle when it was painted at the factory - they would have been manufactured somewhere else and painted in some sort of approximation to the vehicle's base colour...and as for them being painted when the vehicle is in service, well, having been there and done that on my Chieftain ARRV many years ago, we removed the kit from the vehicle; this means that the tools etc didn't get painted so would probably not match the vehicles' new colour.

BUT...soldiers - especially those in combat situations - have the primary aim of getting as much sleep as possible, and so would try to minimise the amount of work to be done, and so they may well have just left the vehicle tools in situ and painted over (or even around) them. I can certainly remember that when we did have to paint big lumps like tanks, even for the Queens Jubilee in 77, there wasn't a great deal of care taken, as HM would be viewing them from a distance - rather than masking headlights, we'd just cover the lenses in grease, paint them, and then wipe the grease off.

This probably doesn't help, but what I'm getting at is there's no right or wrong - do it the way you believe would be best!

Graeme

[Wayne rc]

this is a really difficult question to answer with any accuracy - the tools almost certainly would not be on the vehicle when it was painted at the factory - they would have been manufactured somewhere else and painted in some sort of approximation to the vehicle's base colour...and as for them being painted when the vehicle is in service, well, having been there and done that on my Chieftain ARRV many years ago, we removed the kit from the vehicle; this means that the tools etc didn't get painted so would probably not match the vehicles' new colour.

BUT...soldiers - especially those in combat situations - have the primary aim of getting as much sleep as possible, and so would try to minimise the amount of work to be done, and so they may well have just left the vehicle tools in situ and painted over (or even around) them. I can certainly remember that when we did have to paint big lumps like tanks, even for the Queens Jubilee in 77, there wasn't a great deal of care taken, as HM would be viewing them from a distance - rather than masking headlights, we'd just cover the lenses in grease, paint them, and then wipe the grease off.

This probably doesn't help, but what I'm getting at is there's no right or wrong - do it the way you believe would be best!

Graeme

[/quote

Yes Graeme

I think that your British army experience probably reflects AFV repainting in any army at any time in history.

Yes Azir the Tiger you are building would have been painted by the unit the last Tiger I's were built in Aug 44

after this time vehicles were given factory camo, this was also the time that zimmerit was discontinued.

101 abt Tiger Is seemed to have a simular 3 colour camo throughout the unit, not very much base colour yellow

was visible.

Just in case you dont know, the turret numbers are a different colour for each Kompanie, 1st Kp was white outline with dk yellow centre,

2nd Kp had white with red centre, and 3rd had a meduim blue with yellow outline.

The command tanks 007,008,009 had solid white

[pigsty]

When I asked this a while ago the consensus (on Armorama) was that if the tools weren't painted in situ, they'd be essentially black with a metallic sheen, and the handles would be dark wood except for the bolt cutters, which were a sort of Bakelite finish.

As for painting on the vehicle ... I really don't think anyone would have been doing that in a combat situation. It's the sort of job that's done (and rarely) when equipment comes back from the front for overhaul, or in rear areas in preparation for combat - not overnight between engagements. So I reckon you'd be at least as likely to find tools that had been carefully removed before a tank was repainted. The clamps, though, would have been left behind.

[Andy K]

I'm in the process of finishing the Hobbyboss VK1602 and I've been studying pictures of German armour as it struck me that what I was doing previously (painting metal tools in metallic colours) just did'nt look right. From what I've seen the tools are generally the same colour as the vehicle, with the exception of wooden handles and jack blocks as mentioned before. Even spare track links have been painted over so really the choice is yours.

I'm also guessing that the tools would have been supplied by different manufacturers and be in different shades of the base colour. Another thing to consider is the change over from Dark Grey to Dark Yellow as a base colour in 1943 as this would (possibly) result in a mix of different coloured tools too.

Personally I'll be painting the on-vehicle equipment a diffferent way from now on

[Aziraphael]

Just in case you dont know, the turret numbers are a different colour for each Kompanie, 1st Kp was white outline with dk yellow centre,

2nd Kp had white with red centre, and 3rd had a meduim blue with yellow outline.

The command tanks 007,008,009 had solid white

I certainly didn't know this. Worryingly the supplied kit decals are for tank 112, Green centre, white outline?

[Wayne rc]

I certainly didn't know this. Worryingly the supplied kit decals are for tank 112, Green centre, white outline?

That sounds ok, the green centre for 1 kp, As far as remember it was one of the camo colours

I may have been wrong to say dk yellow.

Also each kp had its own way of placing the cross keys 1st SS Pz Korps insignia, one of the kompanies,

I cant remember which one, applied it on an area where the zimmerit was cut away especially.

Yes I agree that most 'field camo' was applied by field workshops but often spare tracks tools ropes etc

were overpainted, I have definate evidence, but a very particular nco or officer may have ordered tools to be

removed.

A lot of trouble for nothing when there was always more important maintainance issues to deal with.

Black finish on shovels yes I agree like hammerite.