phat trev Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Thanks to Paul J on here I have purchased the 1/72 Fujimi Phantom with A&AEE markings. Looking at building a USAF 1980's type machine I am left wondering what type of American F-4 model this is nearest to? reading various sources state the F-4J which looks to have been used buy the USN and Marines. So the question is really, with a bit of TLC and the removal of the British Spey engines to be replaced by US engines?? what USAF versions could I make? I am particually interested in making a 'European Lizard scheme' 1980's Phantom as these are the types I remember seeing at RAF Weathersfield in the 80's, was there a Squadron based there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Converting it back to a U.S. one!!!!! Heresy!!!! Off with his head!!! Only joking Andy, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Thanks to Paul J on here I have purchased the 1/72 Fujimi Phantom with A&AEE markings. Looking at building a USAF 1980's type machine I am left wondering what type of American F-4 model this is nearest to?reading various sources state the F-4J which looks to have been used buy the USN and Marines. So the question is really, with a bit of TLC and the removal of the British Spey engines to be replaced by US engines?? what USAF versions could I make? I am particually interested in making a 'European Lizard scheme' 1980's Phantom as these are the types I remember seeing at RAF Weathersfield in the 80's, was there a Squadron based there? I'll tell you what, I'll take it off of your hands and send you an F4C/D/J... ...it'd be a shame to waste a Spey engined 'Toom by converting it into a J79 engined jet. Wez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotthldr Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I'm not familiar with the Fujimi kit as it's not in my scale but I would imagine it will be impossible to realistically convert to an American example. The whole rear fuselage is different due to Spey engines being larger, the intakes are larger due to the Spey needing more air through it, the undercarriage is different as well as the aerial fit and the exhausts as you already mentioned. I would take Wez's offer up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Yes!!!! Please do Andy!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 As others have said, it's too hard to convert the fujimi british phantom kit. Trade it for a hasegawa F-4 kit of the right version ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phat trev Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 wez PM sent all things F-4 Paul J no worries I have re-considered my (obviously ludicrous) idea of converting a perfectly good Spey Phantom... "i hearby appologise to all Brits who worship the Phantom and its Speys..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kspriss Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 In a word....don't! The rear fuselage is a lot different on a Spey beast than on one equipped with Messrs Pratt and Whitney's finest. The Spey is a much fatter beast in the area forward of the jet pipes. The nose is short for an -E and the wrong shape for a -C/D Build it as Fujimi intended or failing that I'm sure I could find room for her ( just joking in case Mrs Steve is watching) Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennings Heilig Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Actually the radome on all short nosed Phantoms is exactly the same shape. The C and most Ds had a "donkey dick" fairing underneath, but the radome itself is the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 In a word....don't! The rear fuselage is a lot different on a Spey beast than on one equipped with Messrs Pratt and Whitney's finest. Actually not P&W but General Electric's finest. As the J-79 was one of the best military jet engines ever, the word finest here is fully justified ! The only PW powered F-4 was the IAI Super Phantom /Kurnass 2000 prototype that had a couple of PW1120 engines. The project was then abandoned and the Israeli Phantoms retained the original engines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kspriss Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Actually not P&W but General Electric's finest. As the J-79 was one of the best military jet engines ever, the word finest here is fully justified ! The only PW powered F-4 was the IAI Super Phantom /Kurnass 2000 prototype that had a couple of PW1120 engines. The project was then abandoned and the Israeli Phantoms retained the original engines. ahh, senior moment...of course they were GE ones..late night last night. still fatter rear fuselage though steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfpack Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Converting it back to a U.S. one!!!!! Heresy!!!! Off with his head!!! Of course it's heresy. You should bin the lot and build F-14s a proper aircraft! W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ursa_major Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Actually the radome on all short nosed Phantoms is exactly the same shape. The C and most Ds had a "donkey dick" fairing underneath, but the radome itself is the same. Jennings - that's generally true, apart from XT597 which the Fujimi A&AEE kit depicts - that had a non-standard radome shape with a distinct 'lip' and a flattened area underneath - it can just be seen in this shot: http://www.airliners.net/photo/UK---Air/Mc...f50c98d4245109f G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kspriss Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Jennings - that's generally true, apart from XT597 which the Fujimi A&AEE kit depicts - that had a non-standard radome shape with a distinct 'lip' and a flattened area underneath - it can just be seen in this shot: http://www.airliners.net/photo/UK---Air/Mc...f50c98d4245109fG. very true, and thats what i meant when i said different nose shape...HOWEVER that was a trials radome, and she did spend time with a more normal nose too..A&AEE machines eh, dont'cha just love em? steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ursa_major Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 very true, and thats what i meant when i said different nose shape...HOWEVER that was a trials radome, and she did spend time with a more normal nose too..A&AEE machines eh, dont'cha just love em?steve Yep! I'm getting more & more tempted to earmark one of the stash as 597 in the camo with dayglo panels scheme she wore for a while... G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phat trev Posted February 24, 2012 Author Share Posted February 24, 2012 (edited) The newer 1/72 Revell F-4F, this could be 'back dated' to an American F-4E prehaps? How about the RF-4F too and RF-4C? Edited February 24, 2012 by phat trev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 The newer 1/72 Revell F-4F, this could be 'back dated' to an American F-4E prehaps? How about the RF-4F too and RF-4C? To convert the Revell RF-4E into an RF-4C you mainly need a pair of shorter exhaust nozzles (F-4C/D style). These can be easy enough to find as several RF-4 kits come with both types of exhaust, an ad in the "buy" section should sort some result Some RF-4Cs had the rounded camera nose and not the squared one used on the German RF-4Es The conversion of the F-4F has been discussed before and IIRC you need a pair of slotted stabilators to build any E. Other modifications might be required depending on the particular aircraft you want to build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phat trev Posted February 24, 2012 Author Share Posted February 24, 2012 Thanks Giorgio N I now have the new mould 1/72 Revell F-4F and it does look great. Odd but the mouldings are in two grades of plastic? some silver and some light grey with loads of flash! well it was cheap.. To convert the Revell RF-4E into an RF-4C you mainly need a pair of shorter exhaust nozzles (F-4C/D style). These can be easy enough to find as several RF-4 kits come with both types of exhaust, an ad in the "buy" section should sort some resultSome RF-4Cs had the rounded camera nose and not the squared one used on the German RF-4Es The conversion of the F-4F has been discussed before and IIRC you need a pair of slotted stabilators to build any E. Other modifications might be required depending on the particular aircraft you want to build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandwagon 106 Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 (edited) A few "Short nose " pics for a comparision. F-4D, J and N - Phamily Photo! First off- the F-4N. A re-manufactured version of the F-4B, this model shared the slim(ish) radome (which itself was larger than the F4H-1 / A) with the B The D model-updating the first USAF version-the F-4C, this model had the APQ-109 radar, based on the AN/APQ-100 from the C, which had a larger diameter radome than the B The F-4J, and it's British relatives the K and, shared the more bulbous nose of the C and D. The radar for the J was the AN/APG-59 pulse-doppler with the AWG-10 fire control system Lots more differences such as engines, landing gear, wing thickness, cockpits, abound between versions. Some are obvious and some are subtle. It' s all fun though! Joel Edited February 24, 2012 by Bandwagon 106 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMChladek Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 (edited) A Spey Phantom is sort of like a custom version of a muscle car where some bloke has pulled the already big motor out and had to make a new front end to fit an even BIGGER motor up front. At a glance they look similar, but they are not as up close you see that something is not quite right. The center fuselage section of a Spey Phantom is like that compared to a GE powered one. So "you can't get there from here". To do a USAF Phantom, you need an F-4C/D or an F-4E (or the RF-4C) recon bird. As for RF-4 camera noses, USAF RF-4Cs could either be seen with the rounded or squared off camera nose (you pretty much have to find a picture of a specific airframe to identify the nose it had). RF-4Es of Germany could be seen mostly with the squared off nose while everyone else who ordered new build RF-4Es got the rounded nose. Now Turkey inherited some of the ex-German RF-4Es with the squared off noses as well. In 1/72, slotted stabs should be pretty much all you need to turn an F-4F kit into an F-4E. There might be some tiny antenna differences, but that is it as while German Phantoms couldn't carry Sparrows when originally delivered, the Sparrow slots were left and I believe ended up being used with the AMRAAMs. Only other difference I am aware of is German Phantom ejection seats used the British harness instead of the American one. Other than that, I started a nice little quick and dirty Phantom guide a few years ago over at ARC which you are welcome to take a glance at. Other posters have contributed additional data since then, but the core list is pretty much all you need if you don't want to dive too deep into Phantom minutia: Aircraft Resource Center- "F-4 Phantom Guide for the Masses" Edited February 24, 2012 by JMChladek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phat trev Posted February 24, 2012 Author Share Posted February 24, 2012 (edited) good knowledge, thanks. I am going to use the Revell one to create a 1990's USAF European camo (green/grey) F-4E now to choose a Fighter Squadron and locate some decals as I want to plaster the entire aircraft with small white stencils..... (the Fujimi one will be shelved) Edited February 25, 2012 by phat trev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabba Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I am going to use the Revell one to create a 1890's USAF European camo (green/grey) F-4E Wow the USAF has been around a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phat trev Posted February 25, 2012 Author Share Posted February 25, 2012 Wow the USAF has been around a long time. haha. ammended thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMChladek Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 (edited) Wow the USAF has been around a long time. Yeah, it was a little known Air Force sequel to "The Final Countdown". Just remember if you use the Revell of Germany F-4F, it will need slotted stabs to make it an F-4E. But it should work just fine. Those tiny white stencils can be a pain to apply, but the jet looks cool when done. Edited February 25, 2012 by JMChladek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike M Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I am going to use the Revell one to create a 1990's USAF European camo (green/grey) F-4E I think by the 1990s most if not all USAF Phantoms were to be found in grey schemes rather than the earlier green/grey Euro 1 scheme. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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