PaulR Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Evening all, have been reading up about the potential Omani Typhoon order, and the indications seem to be new build rather than refurbished Tranche 1. This being the case, does anyone know if the 12 Omani airframes will be additional to the RAF Tranche 3A order, or taken from it? If so, is the RAF going to get them replaced? It is more than a little worrying that the RAF's entire fighter force could be less than 100 airframes by 2019, assuming Tornado is gone by then. On a similar theme, is the Tranche 1 retirement a definite thing, and does it include all of them? Over what time frame is this proposed to happen? I was thinking about the two seaters in particular - surely it would be better to keep at least these for OCU training, as they won't have to be the latest standard, and it frees up Tranche 3 in particular for frontline single seaters. Perhaps that's just too much like common sense. Anyway, would be grateful for any info or informed comment. Regards, Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hacker Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 sounds to me that the Omani might be nervous about the Iranian's intentions and going to boost their air defenses which would mean that they may be getting aircraft meant for the RAF to quicken the deliveries and hasten their arrival in the region . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4scourge7 Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 (edited) AFM reckons it will be from RAF Tranche 3 but does not say if there will be RAF replacements. There`s even a nice mock-pic of an Omani typhoon with CFTs. As the MoD/Govt axis is aiming for just over 100 Typhoons for the RAF it`s highly probable they won`t be replaced, but the AFM piece does not say. Although tranche 3 was split into 2 parts for economic reasons, it`s often reported that both the last and current govt wanted/want to bale on part of tranche 3, preferably through a foreign sale, thereby honouring commitments to Eurofighter to take the aircraft but not having to put them into RAF service. Cheers, Ian Edited February 4, 2012 by ian buick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magwitch Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 The SDSR made it pretty clear that the plan is for 95 RAF Typhoons provisioning 5 squadrons (3,6,11 + 2 x TBA), OCU, OEU and 1435. The UK has currently received or ordered 160. Assuming we scrap the 53 x Tranche 1s and cancel Tranche 3b that leaves 107 minus 12 for Oman equals 95! Coincidence? I think not... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExRAF Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Wherever they come from, I bet they'll be painted in the dullest dull grey money can buy, thereby adding to the world's population of dull grey jets. A bit of colour wouldn't hurt now and again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 The SDSR made it pretty clear that the plan is for 95 RAF Typhoons provisioning 5 squadrons (3,6,11 + 2 x TBA), OCU, OEU and 1435. The UK has currently received or ordered 160. Assuming we scrap the 53 x Tranche 1s and cancel Tranche 3b that leaves 107 minus 12 for Oman equals 95! Coincidence? I think not... Fairly sure I read a top RAF neddy saying that he regarded Tranche 1 Typhoons as obsolete and wasn't interested in upgrading them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Are the tranche one aircraft really that deficient compared to the newer ones? What's the difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandwagon 106 Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Very strange how a 7 year old, top -of- the -line, multi-million pound aircraft is so suddenly obsolete and considered a throw away. Maybe we don't need them right now but think of what they could be used for... Joel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magwitch Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Are the tranche one aircraft really that deficient compared to the newer ones? What's the difference? A tranche is really just a commercial instrument; it's the blocks that identify the different levels of technical capability. All of the RAF tranche 1 Typhoons are Block 5. Unfotunately and typically the RAF forked the software for Block 5 (Change Proposal 193) to get austere A2G capability ahead of the other Eurofighter partners - who didn't care about that capability at the time. There is no feasible or cost effective upgrade path from the RAF Block 5 back into the main software development effort which is at Block 8. The RAF obivously can't afford to maintain and test its own seperate version of the software for 53 aircraft so these aircraft are now at a developmental dead end and the RAF has no other option but to scrap them. Luckily, they only cost 4.5bn quid! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulR Posted February 5, 2012 Author Share Posted February 5, 2012 Ref. the 'developmental dead end' of the Block 5 jets. . . surely it can't be beyond the wit of man to deinstall the block 5 software and install the block 8? Obviously, I am grossly oversimplifying here, but even if it can't be done, why not keep the tranche 1 jets as air defence UK, for which they are vastly superior to anything bar an F-22, and use the tranche 2/3 jets as the deployable, multirole jets? It is just staggering that nearly a 1/3 of the RAF's jets will be scrapped/considered 'obsolete' after barely 10 years service. No wonder they are having a tough time selling it abroad. It hardly engenders much confidence in the market place if the original four customers are looking to retire/sell off early airframes already. Is there any chance that the decision to retire the Tranche 1 jets could be reversed in the next SDSR in 2015? Cheers for the points of view expressed so far. P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hacker Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 A tranche is really just a commercial instrument; it's the blocks that identify the different levels of technical capability. All of the RAF tranche 1 Typhoons are Block 5. Unfotunately and typically the RAF forked the software for Block 5 (Change Proposal 193) to get austere A2G capability ahead of the other Eurofighter partners - who didn't care about that capability at the time. There is no feasible or cost effective upgrade path from the RAF Block 5 back into the main software development effort which is at Block 8. The RAF obivously can't afford to maintain and test its own seperate version of the software for 53 aircraft so these aircraft are now at a developmental dead end and the RAF has no other option but to scrap them. Luckily, they only cost 4.5bn quid! a wise man once said the truth is a 3 edged sword, your truth, their truth and the real truth. question is what is the real truth as I find these days your military under your current government is totting the government line which has been far from truthful e.g. the harriers dam stupid decision you ask me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magwitch Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Ref. the 'developmental dead end' of the Block 5 jets. . . surely it can't be beyond the wit of man to deinstall the block 5 software and install the block 8? Obviously, I am grossly oversimplifying here, but even if it can't be done, why not keep the tranche 1 jets as air defence UK, for which they are vastly superior to anything bar an F-22, and use the tranche 2/3 jets as the deployable, multirole jets? I suppose it's not beyond the wit of man in that it would probably be physically possible to do it. It would just take a lot of money and we don't have any of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobski Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) Wherever they come from, I bet they'll be painted in the dullest dull grey money can buy, thereby adding to the world's population of dull grey jets.A bit of colour wouldn't hurt now and again! This is going to sound ridiculous, but you'd need to clear the new paint to paint them a different colour. Currently the only approved colours that you can use on the jet are the four that are used by the core nations (or a combination of two of them, as the Saudis have). Are the tranche one aircraft really that deficient compared to the newer ones? What's the difference? They won't have the same level of capability as the later jets and less scope for growth. The MOD say that they need to get rid of them because of obsolescence, but that's rubbish in my (personal) opinion as they would be perfectly good jets to use for training and air defence tasks in the UK. It's all about the £ - the MOD think that scrapping 53 £70m jets by 2018 after just 15 years in service in order to save a few £ in the future is an effective use of taxpayers' money. (Just to clarify, this is all my personal opinion and not the view of my employers) Edited February 7, 2012 by Bobski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julien Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 This is going to sound ridiculous, but you'd need to clear the new paint to paint them a different colour. Currently the only approved colours that you can use on the jet are the four that are used by the core nations (or a combination of two of them, as the Saudis have).They won't have the same level of capability as the later jets and less scope for growth. The MOD say that they need to get rid of them because of obsolescence, but that's rubbish in my (personal) opinion as they would be perfectly good jets to use for training and air defence tasks in the UK. It's all about the £ - the MOD think that scrapping 53 £70m jets by 2018 after just 15 years in service in order to save a few £ in the future is an effective use of taxpayers' money. Did you realise you used the words MOD & think in the same sentence. Thats just not right!! Julien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4scourge7 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Did you realise you used the words MOD & think in the same sentence. Thats just not right!!Julien My vote for incisive quote of the day! I`ve tried to formulate a reasonable response but I always lose it and foam at the mouth..... so what Julien said Yours incensed etc....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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