JackG Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 The OP might have answered his own question, not being able to find much, if any, very weathered photos of the Spitfire Lf IXe - because such an example was rare to be seen? Does seem that he has his mind set on doing some 'over the top" weathering, which is fine since model building for many is a form of art. What might irk some is when an individual goes to the trouble of purchasing a very accurate kit, AM products, does research for the precise colours, aircraft markings and then applies very heavy weathering techniques that just goes beyond realistic even from what photos show. Yes, I know, in the end it's the individual choice of what he wants to do - but he is asking advice albeit in photo form. Period photos are great when you can find them, but keep in mind they can belie what is really there. Some old photos, or even reproductions made from negatives, can be scratched and damaged. I've some experience in the b/w darkroom, and am aware of some processes a lab technician uses to create better contrast in photos. These can result in a grainy appearance, blowing them up will also do this - all of which can amplify the weathered look of an aircraft. regards, Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tank152 Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 What I find strange is the thread title. Does the OP think that just because its a Spitfire it would weather different to say a Typhoon or even a 109? Dirt and grime will attach its self to anything regardless of what type of aircraft and what ever side its on! Apart from each aircraft's characteristic exhaust and oil leak staining that is. Its safe to say though that if the question had been about the Typhoon we wouldn't have been onto page 4. I think that at times people lose sight at what the Spitfire actually was used for and that at the time it wouldn't have got any more special treatment that any other aircraft. Its been entertaining though and I knew it would only be a matter of time before the :handbag:s came out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve in Ottawa Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 What I find strange is the thread title. Does the OP think that just because its a Spitfire it would weather different to say a Typhoon or even a 109? Dirt and grime will attach its self to anything regardless of what type of aircraft and what ever side its on! Apart from each aircraft's characteristic exhaust and oil leak staining that is. Its safe to say though that if the question had been about the Typhoon we wouldn't have been onto page 4. I think that at times people lose sight at what the Spitfire actually was used for and that at the time it wouldn't have got any more special treatment that any other aircraft. Its been entertaining though and I knew it would only be a matter of time before the :handbag:s came out! I don't quite know what you're trying to infer about the OP. He asked a simple question about a Spitfire he wants to model, and he was simply looking for reference images to help him with his project. Pretty straightforward request from him, as far as I can tell. But he did get the ball rolling that led us to the current weathering philosophy discussion, and for that I thank him, and also apologize for jumping in on how the thread developed. I hope he found it useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatgonzo Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 It is hard to take a side, especially as it is hard to imagine why there should be any sides here at all. Even more when you take a look at the problem from modellers perspective. Then all thing would be mostly academic, as authors trying to replicate the original looks of the plane are almost impossible to find. The ideas like 'pictures show it differently - you may do whatever you want', or 'the picture says it all' are gladly followed and then in practice reduced to popular 'in fashion' techniques. These being done with no reflection what for. How many modellers do all the best to find out what their target looked like? It wouldn't matter at all if Spitfires got dirty or not as a rule. There is one aircraft being built and you need her story. How many look for methods to reproduce this story on a model choosing their techniques with knowledge or at list hope of getting specific effect of the real frame instead of the popular models of the moment. For those who try to walk this path the informations shared by people like Edgar are priceless. Historical pictures usually (always when it is 'your' aircraft) bring nothing more but few suggestions over the obvious things. Bringing the looks of the WWII plane to life is a puzzle. Documents, first hand memories are very important elements of it. Essential when you want to avoid 'do whatever you want idea'. I am not going to add anything to supposed subject of the thread. Probably everything has been said already. I would rather say Thank You to Edgar and other members sharing their not so easy to get knowledge and experiences in this place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellsprop Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 The topic title I wrote may have been a bit too specific. I was just curious and it has sparked some pretty interesting conversation as well. I'm absolutely certain that one or two Spitfires got pretty grimey This Spit looks fairly filthy and the paint along the fuselage is not one solid colour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilneBay Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 There's an 'ell of an echoooooooooo in here. I could have sworn someone said that in post #59..... K They did? Well then at least there are two of us with the correct interpretation of those pics. I have seen those pics many times on forums, and over the years in print form and often cited as BoB, there is no harm in pointing out the features in them that indicate the period they are from. It is being able to understand those features that allows people to date images they may come across. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 They did? Well then at least there are two of us with the correct interpretation of those pics. I have seen those pics many times on forums, and over the years in print form and often cited as BoB, there is no harm in pointing out the features in them that indicate the period they are from. It is being able to understand those features that allows people to date images they may come across. Yep, but you didn't mention the trees....!! Keef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Number 7: The Larch. The Larch. Those two Spitfires are from 54 Squadron, and they are Mk.Vas. They received them about 25 May '41. Vbs began to trickle in from early July. They spent most of August at a training camp (exchanging aircraft in the process). I think (without being able to verify offhand) that when they got their aircraft back after returning from camp they were pretty much established on the 'b', though may have still had a handful of 'a's on hand. By then they'd be wearing the grey/green uppers, right? bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilneBay Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Yep, but you didn't mention the trees....!! Keef Trees? There were trees, I'm sorry but a Spitfire in the foreground will always attract my attention from the supporting cast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanroon Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 These two are BOB Spitfires of the 2-3 sorties a day variety IIRC <snip> <snip> My own opinion is that things just never got that dirty to start with, which would have a lot to do with the surfaces being flown from, such as grassy fields and hard surfaces. Edit: "Gaffe removed 28 Aug 2015"Everyone be looks so relaxed for "during the Battle of Britain". My say. G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonar Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Some old photos, or even reproductions made from negatives, can be scratched and damaged. regards, Jack Like the thumb/finger print to the right of Sergeant Hyde's head,between him and the dog (Dingo,who doesn't look like an Aussie to me) . Also beware of colourisation as in the photo of the bf109K in post #46. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 (edited) Wouldn't the lack of fuselage number indicate this photo was made in the 'Phoney War'? Nope. See my post next but one above yours. bob Edited February 4, 2012 by gingerbob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homerlovesbeer Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 (edited) Were they "invasion" stripes? Stripes had been applied to Typhoons long before D-Day as they were being mistaken for Fw190s. I suspect that the same would have been true for the Tempest and that the stripes would have been permanent - at least at the time Beament received his new machine. Please note that this is only a suggestion and I am not aligning myself to any "camp". As for pictures of painters weilding brooms I have not seen pictures of this, but there are some often reproduced photos of ground crew using pretty large brushes of the sort normally associated with whitewashing a fence. Painting the Invasion stripes A cracking photo Edited August 27, 2015 by Homerlovesbeer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
303sqn Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 In early 1944 HQ AEAF requested from the Air Ministry permission to remove the black and white markings from Typhoons and Tempests. On 1st February 1944 it was agreed that the markings were no longer to be carried by Typhoons from first light 7th February 1944. Gloster confirmed that they would cease to apply the markings on production Typhoons by 6th February 19944. From 14th February Tempests were also to cease carrying the markings. This lasted until June 1944 when Typhoons and Tempests were painted with black and white stripes in the same manner as other aircraft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NPL Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 Wouldn't the lack of fuselage number indicate this photo was made in the 'Phoney War'? Everyone be looks so relaxed for "during the Battle of Britain". My say. G As GingerBob writes: Nope, the sky band around the fuselage was not introduced before after the Battle of Britain, or isn't it correct. The plane has IFF equipment as well (se the black hole in tbe roundel). 'Relaxed', could it be an OTU plane from, say the summer of 1941? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 could it be an OTU plane from, say the summer of 1941? See post 83! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NPL Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 See post 83! OK, should have seen it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancbuilder219 Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 (edited) When I worked albeit for a short time at Duxford, I noted that the weathering was minimal. What was noticeable was chipped paint wherever a foot, hand or tool touched the a/c. In comparison, when I worked on Buccaneers circa 1987 they were filthy. Dried hydraulic oil, jet exhaust soot and then you get footprints where us lineys clambered about. One thing I tried recently was doing a metal undercoat with Hu56 then once the topcoat was 99% dry I sparingly chipped it away to show the 'metal' underneath. Used it on wing walkways and cockpit edges. Edited August 28, 2015 by Lancbuilder219 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now