Redoing old Airfix Demon

[Learstang]

Well ladies and/or gentlemen, I've decided to well and truly step in it with this one. I intend on building as much of the Hawker Hart family as I can stand, so as a start I've decided to redo my old Airfix Demon, which I had (mis)built in my callow youth. As you can see from the following photographs, even built up, it looked like I'd already started to take it apart. Look at that wonderful wing alignment! My only defence is my extreme youth at the time I built it. As for the kit itself, comparing it to some more modern Hart-variant kits, it actually looks pretty spot-on, with the exception of the fuselage being a little short, which I'm prepared to ignore, a), because I don't think it'll be noticeable on the built-up model, and more importantly, , I'm irretrievably bone-idle lazy. It has no interior to speak of, which I intend on rectifying, but other than that, and some necessary strut reconstruction and replacement (I'd actually glued one of the "N" struts upside-down, no doubt leading to some of my alignment problems!), I'm going to rebuild it using the original parts. Now the question is - what should I rebuild it as? One of the nice things about the Hart family is that you are not starved for choices when it comes to schemes and markings so I've narrowed it down to three, which I'll post after I post some piccies pre and post-deconstruction. Any encouraging comments are of course welcome, and any disparaging remarks will be dealt with on a first-come, first-withering reply basis. Below is the first of my before photographs. Warning: the following photographs depict graphic scenes of the destruction of a perfectly innocent (if horribly built) model!

Best Regards,

Jason

Edited January 26, 2012 by Learstang

[Learstang]

Photograph Number 2:

Photograph Number 3:

[Learstang]

And now for a bit of fun, the after photographs:

Edited January 26, 2012 by Learstang

[Learstang]

Here are the candidates for reconstruction:

A South African Hartebeest (or Hartbees, or Hartebeeste, or Hartwhatever...)

A Turret Demon:

An Irish Hind:

I rather fancy this last one, having a bit of the "Old Sod" in me blood (or is it I'm a bit of an Old Sod?). At any rate, these are the Hart variants I'm thinking of redoing my Demon as. Any other recommendations will certainly be considered, but remember I do want to do a variant with the angled gunner's position, so no Audaxes, Hardies, etc.

Regards,

Jason

Edited January 26, 2012 by Learstang

[Learstang]

Here are some more piccies of the aftermath of my wanton destruction of this model. I've split the fuselage in half (with hilarious consequences to the lower wing!) so I can detail it and repaint it. I've started to strip off the paint, but the decals aren't giving up the ghost easily, as you can see. I'll have another go as soon as my arm quits throbbing.

Regards,

Jason

Edited January 26, 2012 by Learstang

[David Womby]

This is intriguing to watch. No offence intended, but I am amazed at your devotion to rebuilding your old model rather than just buying a new one. Don't misunderstand me, I am enjoying watching this a lot and it may even inspire me to try it one day.

Anyway, I vote for the Hartebeeste. I like the desert-like colours.

David

[CarLos]

Jason, I will follow this one! Interesting subject, and I can´t resist an old kit build.

Carlos

[bentwaters81tfw]

Chuck all the bits in a sealable poly bag and pour in enough brake fluid to cover the bits. This will strip the lot back and dissolve the glue so you can start afresh. Rinse with cold water and leave to air dry.

[MakingModelsAgain]

Having done something similar to a considerably more recent kit, I'm going to watch this one closely. Albion Alloys referred to my (re)build on facebook as 'upcycling' which is a good way of putting it and it represents quite a challenge to give one of those old birds a new lease of life. Well done in advance!

[Learstang]

Thank you gentlemen for your comments. David, the reason I decided to rebuild this one instead of doing a new one is that I've done a couple of rebuilds of old Airfix models (an Hs-123 and a Do-17F) and rather enjoyed it, and this model (not the kit, which isn't half-bad) was so awful that it begged to be redone. Carlos, I hope you enjoy the build. If past performance is any measure of future performance, this make take awhile. Bentwaters, thank you for the tip. As I've stripped the paint off with plain old paint thinner, I've noticed globs of glue remaining, especially on the poorly-built wings, so I may very well try your brake fluid advice. That certainly sounds better than trying to trim all the excess glue away with my hobby blade. MakingModelsAgain (good on you for that!) I do like the idea of the "upcycling" also. Nothing like taking a nice, old kit and bringing it up to modern standards. David, I'm kind of tending to the Hartewhatever also, because I like camouflaged Harts and it actually saw some action in East Africa during World War II against the Italians. The fact that it is still extant and I have good photographs of it also doesn't hurt (I have the Mushroom book - lovely little book and a must for anyone doing Harts). I do love those wonderfully weird Yin/Yang Irish roundels though, and the Turret Demon would be an interesting and relatively easy conversion, I think (famous last words!). We shall see - I have to get the basic kit put back together again first. I'm afraid this won't be on the level of Nobby's Magnum Opus on the Airfix Boulton-Paul Defiant, but I'll give it good try. Since the basic kit is pretty good, I won't have to go through the gyrations and contortions that poor, old Nobby is with his Defiant. By the way, does anyone know what that s****ing Hartebeeste was really called - even the Mushroom book kind of waffles on that one?

Best Regards,

Jason

Edited January 27, 2012 by Learstang

[stevehed]

Hi Jason,

I always thought is was called the Hartbees, not that I know what one is, other than the Hart is a deer. There was an article on SMAKR a few months ago concerning a similar project to your own and here's the link. There are two articles, one the means and the other the results. Hope it's of use.

http://www.fortunecity.com/meltingpot/port...cycled-kits.htm

Cheers,

Steve

PS Can't beat a bit of kit bashing. Very therapeutic.

Edited January 26, 2012 by stevehed

[Learstang]

Hi Jason,

I always thought is was called the Hartbees, not that I know what one is, other than the Hart is a deer. There was an article on SMAKR a few months ago concerning a similar project to your own and here's the link. There are two articles, one the means and the other the results. Hope it's of use.

http://www.fortunecity.com/meltingpot/port...cycled-kits.htm

Cheers,

Steve

PS Can't beat a bit of kit bashing. Very therapeutic.

Great links, Steve - thanks a mill! They should both be very helpful. I actually know what the animal is, and in proper Afrikaans I believe it's the Hartebeeste and related to the Gnu. Where I run into problems is trying to figure out where and what the Hart variant was called. I have seen Hartbees, and since it's the shortest to spell, maybe I'll stick with that. Whatever it's called, it'll look the same if I go with that particular aeroplane.

Regards,

Jason

Edited January 26, 2012 by Learstang

[David Womby]

The English language book 'The SAAF at War' written by South Africans Martin Louw and Stefan Bouwer calls it a Hartbeest. It has a few photos.

David

[perdu]

Jason you seem to be a man after me own heart

(could be enough to stop you, hope it doesnt)

I have just stripped the old paint from a Matchbox Wessex I was given, part built and fully painted.

I tried the submerged in brake fluid for a couple of days but it only wrinkled the paint

What did work was a cheap hand squeezed pump bottle of Tesco Oven Cleaner, it not only dissolved the paint but also got under the decals ad drifted them away too.(didnt dissolve them though)

I'd be mad enough to make it into a Turret Demon, partly because I love the squadron markings, but the Oirish one is cool too

(And I think I have a set of Scale Aircraft Modelling decals for the Irish Air Force somewhere)

have fun, I will enjoy it with you

[Learstang]

Thank you, David, I'll go with "Hartbeest" to describe this variant (for those who don't know, this was basically a South African Audax, the Audax being the Army co-operation version of the Hart). Perdu, I've tried the oven cleaner before on an old Shackleton I was stripping the paint off of, but the results were less than spectacular. I suppose it depends on the paints (enamels) and the age (old - 40+ years) of the model. Perdu, I might be interested in those Irish decals depending on which rabbit hole I go down on this particular model, and I shall try and have fun with this project (and maybe even finish it!).

Regards,

Jason

[Troy Smith]

Jason

you crazy fool...just get yourself on of Aeroclub's sparkly new Demon's in 1/48 and be done with it!

.... seriously though, good luck with this, I've donated a few old kits to folks here.

one suggestion, you may wish to ask what easily available paint strippers are used stateside, or check out Hyperscale, as you'll get useful hints here for UK products but I don't believe Tesco has got as far as Texas ...yet!

I think the Irish one is fetching, but all are of interest. IIRC the Hind that was at Hendon years ago was in Afghan markings...

Made me check...memory has not totally gone...yet. http://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/cosford/collec...hind-afghan.cfm

cheers

T

Edited January 27, 2012 by Troy Smith

[Learstang]

Jason

you crazy fool...just get yourself on of Aeroclub's sparkly new Demon's in 1/48 and be done with it!

.... seriously though, good luck with this, I've donated a few old kits to folks here.

one suggestion, you may wish to ask what easily available paint strippers are used stateside, or check out Hyperscale, as you'll get useful hints here for UK products but I don't believe Tesco has got as far as Texas ...yet!

I think the Irish one is fetching, but all are of interest. IIRC the Hind that was at Hendon years ago was in Afghan markings...

Made me check...memory has not totally gone...yet. http://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/cosford/collec...hind-afghan.cfm

cheers

T

Crazy is correct, Troy! I saw that Demon and it made me wish John would reissue some of his Hart variants in 1/72nd scale (I just talked to him a few days ago and sadly it doesn't look like he is - I wish I could find my Aeroclub Hector and Hardy). I do like those Afghan markings; I could actually do those on my computer. That's a good point about what's available in the States, although I suppose brake fluid is brake fluid. I just checked and Hannants have decals for an Iraqi Nisr, but that's a radial-engined Audax so that's a whole different kettle of fish. As long as the AZ Swedish Harts are available (and I keep buying them), I can do radial-engined Hart variants. I have the parts to do a Hornet-engined Persian Audax, and a Panther-engined Egyptian Audax. And I plan on doing a Mercury-engined Latvian Hind (I even have the decals). Now who's crazy!

Best Regards,

Jason

[Devilfish]

Will have to watch this one. I have my infamous Demon part built on the shelf. It's only taken me 25 years to get to where it is now, and maybe when I give up the hobby I'll have finished it! lol. Well it's certainly appropriately named in my case as it really is my Demon. Maybe your post will inspire me to finish it...one day!

[perdu]

Hi Jason

I just had a look in my transfer/decal (I'm old and old fashioned ) folder and have found that sheet

I am going to scan it so

PM if or when...

I should have thought about that Texas is another place business I also remember dr_gn saying he'd had trouble removing elderly silver paint, there must be something in its composition that resists removal. So you may still need to rub gently 'til plastic again

Good luck

bill

Edited January 27, 2012 by perdu

[JamesP]

Have you tried removing the old decals with selotape?

[Learstang]

Thank you Bill for the offer on the decals (even if I don't use them on this build, I have a Hector that I might finish with those wild roundels), and James, I'll try to lift off the decals with the tape. If I can get the decals off, the paint underneath, which they're protecting, will be a lot easier to remove. I still have the problem of the glue, but I think I'll give the brake fluid a go on that. Devilfish, I'll try and inspire you to finish your Demon, but I was looking for inspiration on this site to finish mine!

Regards,

Jason

[Learstang]

Here we go, James - that tape trick worked a treat, thank you! You can see how well the decals protected the silver paint from the paint thinner I was using to strip the paint off. Now I can finish stripping the paint off, but I'm still left with the globs of glue on the wings so I'll probably give the brake fluid a go also.

Regards,

Jason

[Learstang]

Here are some photographs of the upper and lower sides of the wings showing the paint stripped off. I used James' brake oil treatment and it worked very well for removing the paint, but you can still see silver which is the old glue mixed up with the paint. I'll probably put the pieces back into the brake fluid to see if it won't strip that glue residue off. The last photograph shows some of the bits and bobs I'm using to make this kit a little more "up-to-date". They are a floor (I realise the Harts didn't have a proper floor, but I need something to glue the resin seat onto, which I also have). I have new resin wheels and a new tailwheel to use if I do the Hartebeest or Irish Hind. I have a new propeller as the kit's one, although nicely-enough done, looks a little small. Since the fuselage is a little short to begin with, this larger propeller will make it a little longer. I also have the long exhaust tubes in resin, if I decide to do the Turret Demon. I have new radiators; two of the Potts oil radiators (I can combine the two to make the bigger cooler for the Hartebeest if needed), and a new water radiator. The exhausts on the right I may use to try and make the "Ram's Horn" exhausts for the Hartebeest. Lastly, I have a small blister I can use for the dust filter used on the starboard side of the Hartebeest. That's it for now. Hopefully tomorrow I can show some piccies of the fuselage. Hmmm, it does seem like I'm stockpiling parts to make the Hartebeest - it looks like that may be the way I go, but I've got plenty of time to change my mind. That's not just a woman's right, that's a modeller's right, by Gum! By the way, anybody know right off hand what interior paints I should be using on this bird - or does it vary with whichever variant I go with? I have photographs of restored examples, but I don't completely trust restored examples (sometimes the people restoring them, especially on the interior, just splash on whatever's handy or looks "right" - at least it's that way with some Soviet restorations I've seen). For what it's worth I think I am going to try my hand on the interior tubing so I'll need to know if that is painted differently than the fuselage sides (I fear it probably is!)

Regards,

Jason

Edited January 28, 2012 by Learstang

[Troy Smith]

By the way, anybody know right off hand what interior paints I should be using on this bird - or does it vary with whichever variant I go with? I have photographs of restored examples, but I don't completely trust restored examples (sometimes the people restoring them, especially on the interior, just splash on whatever's handy or looks "right" - at least it's that way with some Soviet restorations I've seen). For what it's worth I think I am going to try my hand on the interior tubing so I'll need to know if that is painted differently than the fuselage sides (I fear it probably is!)

Hi Jason

for the Fury....see this thread,http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=79628 but here my bit....yeah, I know, Furies, Hurricanes...but Hawker were pretty consistent..... I may be wrong but this is worth it the 'red dope bleeding through fabric' pic alone.. or ask John Adams?

To add to the interior colours questions, I was corresponding with Guy Black from HAC who were restoring K5674 and he very kindly shared his knowledge with me regarding Fury colours.

The interior of the cowls was obviously natural aluminium. The tubular structure was either black or interior grey green (dependant on year of construction), instrument panel was anodised grey aluminium and the seat painted in aluminium paint. The rear plywood bulkhead behind the pilot's seat was usually painted grey green.

I would treat the interior frame as being grey-green with caution. Either japanned black or aluminium dope I'd suggest.

I also contacted Retrotec, with this reply. It's slightly more detailed so i'll repost.

As an aside the Hurricane prototype had black enameled framework. As i was working a model of the Hurricane prototype, I got in touch with Retrotec who restore Hawker biplanes. here's what they said about the Fury, note the comment about the Hurricane.

"The interior of the Fury is as follows:

The steel tube and steel fittings are stove enamelled black.

The stainless steel fittings are bare metal.

The Duralumin parts are anodised grey.

The aluminium cowlings are polished.

The wooden parts are painted cockpit green.

The fabric appears red on the inside; this is the colour of the first coats of dope.

On many of the two seater biplanes, and possibly the early Hurricanes, the fuselage was painted as a complete assembly, this is either a greeny-grey or silver.

The props are fabric covered and painted grey. The back of the blades is often matt black to avoid reflection. Tips are often yellow."

interior woodwork, yes. Frames, early on black jappaned, later I'd suggest aluminium dope, rather than grey-green, as this was the case with Hurricanes until at least 1940.

The Finns have an unrestored and untouched since 1943 Gloster built MkI. IIRC some Typhoons had silver frames as well.

this is posted by Kari Lumppio in this thread on Hurricane inner colours, also well shows the red dope on fabric, which is why i'm quoting it.

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.p...=52968&st=0

HTH

now I must go to bed....

T

Edited January 28, 2012 by Troy Smith

[Learstang]

Thank you Troy! A bit complicated, as I feared. Maybe I'll just go with A-14 and paint it all neutral grey (you'll get the joke if no one else does!). On a similar note, I may go with RAF Interior Green, just to make my life a little easier. We shall see. I am rounding up more parts for the interior right now (which means I'm stealing them from an Amodel Osprey, not that I don't intend on doing the Osprey, but I'll worry about that when I start building that kit, whenever that is).

Regards,

Jason