lufbramatt Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Quick question; Do we know yet what variants are in the first (will there be more?) boxing? Is it RAF HC.3/HC.3A ? Is a RN version coming later?Cheers, Ed It will be a HC3. Once you start looking at a Merlin, even though the shapes are similar, even going from a HC3 to a HC3a, virtually the only common parts are the rotors and engine nacelles/decking. And thats not an exageration! Literally everything else is different, even if only subtly so. Once you start thinking about the Navy birds, not even the rotors are the same (the naval folding head is substantially different to the fixed one on the RAF cabs). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smuts Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Hi guys, 55 notes for a kit that size with a full interior to me's sounds good goin these days, just look at the Hase B24's ... You've not seen the price of Tamiya's new Yamato then! You'd get 4 Merlin's and some change! Agree there got the Musashi with all the WEM bits & deck still cheeper. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Sadly we are talking Hannants here. I was looking at there secondhand section last week, they had a F-4G Wild weasel for sale, £55.00 (seems someone has bought it too!) They still list Aifix Lightnings at £27.99 when you can certainly save a £5.00 on that price if not more by shopping arround. (Again there also sold out!) the point is, some will be happy to go to a large retailer and just open their wallet, and Hannants are there to make money after all, however it does pay to shop a round, and Airfix's RRP is only a guide to retailers. Some charge it, many go lower. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I just cant see how Hannants stay in business charging full whack for everything. Out of which they have to pay rent, heating, lighting, wage bill, and act as tax collectors for the government, just for staying in business. With out trying to derail the thread, have you seen the price Hannants ask for the "Second Hand" kits... No, but I used to work in a shop, where people complained about us paying them £10 for a kit, then charging £18 on the shelf; point out to them that the usual mark-up is 50% (see comment regarding Hannant's, above,) plus VAT (all of which has to be passed on,) and it goes very quiet. 40 years ago, when I was a Stock Controller, we worked on a figure of storage costing .5% of the purchase price (and I very much doubt that it's less, now) for every week that an item remains on the shelf; if you don't sell (or use) it quickly, after a year it's cost 26%, just to have it sitting on the shelf, which makes a big hole in the 50% mark-up. Edgar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) the point is, some will be happy to go to a large retailer and just open their wallet, and Hannants are there to make money after all, however it does pay to shop a round, and Airfix's RRP is only a guide to retailers. Some charge it, many go lower.Dave And some indeed charge more than it - I remember visiting one shop in an English seaside town (which I won't name) were the prices were £1-2 above RRP for everything in the plastic models section. A certain well-known London-based Toy Shop doies the same. Edited January 23, 2012 by Dave Fleming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 You could charge £10.50 and include a Landy and troop figures and it'd still be too much for some people - it's about perception of value, and whether yours is skewed or in line with the item in question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhoenixII Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Out of which they have to pay rent, heating, lighting, wage bill, and act as tax collectors for the government, just for staying in business......I used to work in a shop, where people complained about us paying them £10 for a kit, then charging £18 on the shelf; point out to them that the usual mark-up is 50% (see comment regarding Hannant's, above,) plus VAT (all of which has to be passed on,) and it goes very quiet. 40 years ago, when I was a Stock Controller, we worked on a figure of storage costing .5% of the purchase price (and I very much doubt that it's less, now) for every week that an item remains on the shelf; if you don't sell (or use) it quickly, after a year it's cost 26%, just to have it sitting on the shelf, which makes a big hole in the 50% mark-up. Edgar As Edgar rightly says, stock on shelves is 'dead money' until it's sold. Simple maths. Whoever is in business is in it for ONE reason, to make a profit. If you don't like the price it's offered at, vote with your feet / wallet and shop elsewhere. Hannants buy direct, so their margins are different from someone buying from a wholesaler, why do you think supermarkets can do promotions? someone is paying, either the supermarket (rarely) or the manufacturer, and in most cases both still make a profit, because the supermarkets turn HUGE volume of product. Remember, our hobby is a niche market, never going to be the volume to get rich on. Be grateful that there are still people willing to "put their money where their mouth is" and run a model / hobby shop, and that they know their product and target market. Using Edgar's figures, we ALL know that some shops will NEVER turn a profit, as some stock has been there decades, just look at the dust! Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thx6667 Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 It will be a HC3.Once you start looking at a Merlin, even though the shapes are similar, even going from a HC3 to a HC3a, virtually the only common parts are the rotors and engine nacelles/decking. And thats not an exageration! Literally everything else is different, even if only subtly so. Once you start thinking about the Navy birds, not even the rotors are the same (the naval folding head is substantially different to the fixed one on the RAF cabs). Which also highlights that getting something right, rather than compromising in order to squeeze other variants out, will also mean more R&D time, which is going to cost, and I know there are mindsets that think that its doesn't cost more to get a kit right than it does wrong, but actually it does because - cue hoary old cliche - time is money. Every hour/day/week/month will start to add up, kits sometimes have a release window with sales guys and retailers chomping at the bit to have stock to sell. And how many times have the immortal words "I'd have preferred company X had spent a little more time getting it right than rushing it out" been uttered over the years, usually alongside "why is this kit late?". The world has changed in the last five years and been on the brink of near financial meltdown. A lot of stuff costs more, including the raw materials and overheads that kit companies have to absorb and still make competitive product. And yes, before someone says "but Revell..." I think some of their kits are the exception rather than the rule. I'd love to know how they do it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julien Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 How do Hannants stay in business? Well one thing is for sure they provide some of the best customer service I have ever know. That counts for a lot in my book. Julien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shar2 Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Juat had a look at the 1/350 HMS Daring and that too has had it's model number changed with its associated increase in price from a rumoured £29.99 to £59.99 for the gift set version and £49.99 for the non gift set kit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hootch732 Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I wonder what the cost price is of one of these models. Perhaps a oem version should be available without flash box or instructions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thx6667 Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I wonder what the cost price is of one of these models. Perhaps a oem version should be available without flash box or instructions You mean provide the kit as a service to modellers rather than run it like a business? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousAA72 Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Its all well and good, all of this moaning and defending prices....biggest problem will be......What shade of green do we paint it!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shar2 Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Its all well and good, all of this moaning and defending prices....biggest problem will be......What shade of green do we paint it!? You forgot your other favourite subject Bill, RIVETS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gajman Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Its all well and good, all of this moaning and defending prices....biggest problem will be......What shade of green do we paint it!? At least there will be colour photographs to use when arguing that point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark M Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 just thank god its not Azure blue! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spence Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Hi guys! At the risk of being burnt at the stake, can I weigh-in to this debate, because it seems to be coming up more and more of late. Here’s my take on it. £55 for a plastic kit – yeah, that’s a lot of money - if you buy it and then stash it. Do that and that’s a very expensive bit of loft insulation – and I would argue, a waste of money. Why? Because kits are there to be built – which leads me on to part two of your purchase… If you buy it and then build it, then £55 is not a lot of money. How long will it take you to build this kit? Thirty hours? Forty? Fifty? How much is that pound-per-hour? 50p? 75p? £1? Where else can you get entertainment for that price? Tonight, I’ll meet up with friends to watch football, eat peanuts and drink beer and I’ll have zero change from £20 – for three hours entertainment. That’s £6.50 per hour. And now part three… At the end of then process, you will have a wonderful object to show off to your friends. How much would you pay to buy a ready-made 1/48 Merlin that contained the same detail as the new Airfix kit? £150? £200? Just check out how much and O Gauge, ready to run locos costs. Wanna buy a diesel loco? That’ll be £500 please… You see, the cost of a kit is not a one shot deal. You are actually buying three things, the kit, the entertainment and the finished object. Taken like that, don’t you think that even the most expensive kit is still very good value for money..? Or am I looking at this all wrong?! Spence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darius at Home Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 What Spence said!!! For me £55 represents a single peak hour day return to London; or filling the car up at the petrol station; or two/three trips to the pub after work. In comparison the Airfix Merlin kit seems very good value. Furthermore, and as has already been said, I expect cheaper prices to appear once it has been released. Darius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Also be honest, how many of us have knowingly paid slightly more to have something in the hand, over having to find it, buy it, and wait for it. I know I have. Remember too in shops we get that shiny precious glaze infront of our eyes and we sometimes just have to have!!! However saying that, I still find it amazing Hannants sold a SH F-4G for £55 (but it not there now) but it just goes to show, to someone, what we see as a high price, to them is fair, ie oversea's, remote location, or just that impulse buy from the net, with out looking! Yep done that as well, only this weekend. I e it pays to look, and sometimes it pays to walk away and wait. I'm sure the Airfix merlin will Appear sub £50 if not much lower, only time will tell. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Ogilvie Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 For me £55 represents a single peak hour day return to London; or filling the car up at the petrol station; or two/three trips to the pub after work.In comparison the Airfix Merlin kit seems very good value. Or half an hour's flying... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radleigh Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Hi guys!At the risk of being burnt at the stake, can I weigh-in to this debate, because it seems to be coming up more and more of late. Here’s my take on it. £55 for a plastic kit – yeah, that’s a lot of money - if you buy it and then stash it. Do that and that’s a very expensive bit of loft insulation – and I would argue, a waste of money. Why? Because kits are there to be built – which leads me on to part two of your purchase… If you buy it and then build it, then £55 is not a lot of money. How long will it take you to build this kit? Thirty hours? Forty? Fifty? How much is that pound-per-hour? 50p? 75p? £1? Where else can you get entertainment for that price? Tonight, I’ll meet up with friends to watch football, eat peanuts and drink beer and I’ll have zero change from £20 – for three hours entertainment. That’s £6.50 per hour. And now part three… At the end of then process, you will have a wonderful object to show off to your friends. How much would you pay to buy a ready-made 1/48 Merlin that contained the same detail as the new Airfix kit? £150? £200? Just check out how much and O Gauge, ready to run locos costs. Wanna buy a diesel loco? That’ll be £500 please… You see, the cost of a kit is not a one shot deal. You are actually buying three things, the kit, the entertainment and the finished object. Taken like that, don’t you think that even the most expensive kit is still very good value for money..? Or am I looking at this all wrong?! Spence Nail - Head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Or half an hour's flying... Stop showing off! Or am I looking at this all wrong?! Nope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wafu Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 £55!!!ive just seen the airfix web site to check after i saw it on Hannants i know its a long awaited kit but, thats a lot I thought it would have been a lot more than that. Having seen the article at Telford I would pay that for the Merlin. A Far Eastern kit producer would have doubled that price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foghorn Leghorn Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Hi guys!At the risk of being burnt at the stake .... Or am I looking at this all wrong?! Spence Well, at the risk of being burnt at the stake as well ... Hornby inherited a mass of goodwill from (especially British) modellers when they saved the Airfix brand. And from my point of view that goodwill has been eroding with new kits that, while welcomed (subject-wise at least), have suffered from heavy panel lines, innacuracies, dodgy fit, poor decals, high(ish) prices etc. If they now want to charge premium prices for their kits they have to be premium quality for me to buy them. Will the Merlin (as a kit in general) be as good in detail and sharpness as its competition? If so then fine, but I have my doubts. And price is always relative. I've been wondering whether to get the Airfix 48th Lynx or the Revell 32 Lynx when they arrive, it'll probably be the latter as I'd guess it will be better value and better detail/quality. Of course Airfix are entitled to charge what they want. I would love to support British companies, (I've been a long time poster/supporter on the Hyperscale AGB) but with Airfix kit prices as they are (£17+ for an old dogfight double) I'll only buy Airfix if that's the only option I've got, for me the kit prices are too high for what they are. And that saddens me. But in the meantime (or during the meanwhilst, for any Monty Python fans out there) the ever increasing stash keeps shouting at me "You've got enough already! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Vor!!! Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 its really simples IF YOU LIKE IT YOU WILL BUY IT IF YOU DONT YOU WONT BUY IT OR ARE YOU ONE OF THOSE WHO WONT BUY IT BUT JUST WHINGE ABOUT IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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