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wellzy

By wellzy
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chrisrope Very Obsessed Member

chrisrope

Posted
Posted

Hi all, I am hoping to start my GB entry soon as possible. Mine will be an Airfix (OTAKI/ARII) 1/48 P-51D and will be a Swedish J26.

As the Swedish aircraft came from ex-USAAF Europe stock, would the interior colours for the wheel bays and cockpit be the same as the US spec Mustangs?

The Airfix instructions call out H81 yellow for the wheel bays and H80 green for the cockpit. Are these correct for a Swede?

Any advice appreciated :thumbsup:

Some nice builds going on here and looking forward to starting mine

Cheers

Chris

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Jon Kunac-Tabinor Completely Obsessed Member

Jon Kunac-Tabinor

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Posted
Hi all, I am hoping to start my GB entry soon as possible. Mine will be an Airfix (OTAKI/ARII) 1/48 P-51D and will be a Swedish J26.

As the Swedish aircraft came from ex-USAAF Europe stock, would the interior colours for the wheel bays and cockpit be the same as the US spec Mustangs?

The Airfix instructions call out H81 yellow for the wheel bays and H80 green for the cockpit. Are these correct for a Swede?

Any advice appreciated :thumbsup:

Some nice builds going on here and looking forward to starting mine

Cheers

Chris

Hi Chris, in general wheel bays of most NMF P-51Ds were silver/ aluminium, with only the back wall ( in reality the main wing spar) being in the yellow chromate primer.

Main gear doors are seen in various colours - though as they are normally in the closed position when the AC is on the ground this is maybe moot.

Cockpit colour is more likely to be Dull Dark Green ( rather than the usual interior green most people think of) - but in actual fact, modelling wise, once you paint your pit in interior green and wash it and scuff it up a bit - it will look the same. I'd say H-80 would suffice for this, though add a little black and a tiny little bit of blue to it if you want dull dark green- it will just knock back the "apple-greeny-ness"

In the instrument panel, instrument panel coaming underside is black, as are the side walls directly by the coaming too. Floor was finished in an anti slip black paint - though this often scuffed through to show the wooden floor by the rudder pedals. Dont be fooled by restorations showing a varnished wood floor! ( though it does look nice)

HTH

Jonners

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chrisrope Very Obsessed Member

chrisrope

Posted
Posted
Hi Chris, in general wheel bays of most NMF P-51Ds were silver/ aluminium, with only the back wall ( in reality the main wing spar) being in the yellow chromate primer.

Main gear doors are seen in various colours - though as they are normally in the closed position when the AC is on the ground this is maybe moot.

Cockpit colour is more likely to be Dull Dark Green ( rather than the usual interior green most people think of) - but in actual fact, modelling wise, once you paint your pit in interior green and wash it and scuff it up a bit - it will look the same. I'd say H-80 would suffice for this, though add a little black and a tiny little bit of blue to it if you want dull dark green- it will just knock back the "apple-greeny-ness"

In the instrument panel, instrument panel coaming underside is black, as are the side walls directly by the coaming too. Floor was finished in an anti slip black paint - though this often scuffed through to show the wooden floor by the rudder pedals. Dont be fooled by restorations showing a varnished wood floor! ( though it does look nice)

HTH

Jonners

That'll do nicely, cheers mate. :thumbsup:

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Adam Maas Very Obsessed Member

Adam Maas

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Hi Chris, in general wheel bays of most NMF P-51Ds were silver/ aluminium, with only the back wall ( in reality the main wing spar) being in the yellow chromate primer.

Main gear doors are seen in various colours - though as they are normally in the closed position when the AC is on the ground this is maybe moot.

Cockpit colour is more likely to be Dull Dark Green ( rather than the usual interior green most people think of) - but in actual fact, modelling wise, once you paint your pit in interior green and wash it and scuff it up a bit - it will look the same. I'd say H-80 would suffice for this, though add a little black and a tiny little bit of blue to it if you want dull dark green- it will just knock back the "apple-greeny-ness"

In the instrument panel, instrument panel coaming underside is black, as are the side walls directly by the coaming too. Floor was finished in an anti slip black paint - though this often scuffed through to show the wooden floor by the rudder pedals. Dont be fooled by restorations showing a varnished wood floor! ( though it does look nice)

HTH

Jonners

DDG for a Mustang cockpit? I'm pretty sure that's incorrect, Mustang cockpits were IG from the start of P-51 production. A Mustang I *might* be DDG, but anything later would be IG. Biggest problem with IG is it isn't that bright Candy Apple Green that so many IG paints actually are, it's duller.

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Mike Mcellaney Obsessed Member

Mike Mcellaney

Posted
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Hi Chris, in general wheel bays of most NMF P-51Ds were silver/ aluminium, with only the back wall ( in reality the main wing spar) being in the yellow chromate primer.

Main gear doors are seen in various colours - though as they are normally in the closed position when the AC is on the ground this is maybe moot.

Cockpit colour is more likely to be Dull Dark Green ( rather than the usual interior green most people think of) - but in actual fact, modelling wise, once you paint your pit in interior green and wash it and scuff it up a bit - it will look the same. I'd say H-80 would suffice for this, though add a little black and a tiny little bit of blue to it if you want dull dark green- it will just knock back the "apple-greeny-ness"

In the instrument panel, instrument panel coaming underside is black, as are the side walls directly by the coaming too. Floor was finished in an anti slip black paint - though this often scuffed through to show the wooden floor by the rudder pedals. Dont be fooled by restorations showing a varnished wood floor! ( though it does look nice)

HTH

Jonners

DDG for a Mustang cockpit? I'm pretty sure that's incorrect, Mustang cockpits were IG from the start of P-51 production. A Mustang I *might* be DDG, but anything later would be IG. Biggest problem with IG is it isn't that bright Candy Apple Green that so many IG paints actually are, it's duller.

Got to agree with Adam on this one, in general the cockpits were US Interior Green.

The first Mustangs were if everyone remembers built for and designed for the RAF and the interiors of these early Mustangs with the Alison engines were painted the US version of RAF Interior Green

Gets confusing don't it :)

Just to add to the mix there was some P-51's that came out of the Inglewood plant that were painted a "darker shade of interior green" from what I have found out so far it would seam a typing error on the paint mixing instructions issued to Inglewood was the cause

And just to make it even more confusing the maintenance manual for the P-51 from 1944 calls for the painting touch up of the interior in "Interior Green" with the seat in a Dull Dark Green

Jon

The gear doors on a P-51D, when the aircraft was on the ground engine off for any length of time the doors would open as the hydraulic pressure would bleed off and cause them to drop, only closing again when the engine was started and the pressure brought back up to normal.

The gear doors on the Alison engine Mustangs were in the closed position when the aircraft was on the ground, if you see a photo of them open its because they have been manual unlocked by the ground crew

As for the wheel wells the choice of color is up to you unless you have a original color photo of the aircraft you are building showing the wheel bays, they were left unpainted, painted Zinc Chromate Yellow or Green

Agree with you on the instrument panel and the floor but not sure what you refer to as the "side walls directly by the coaming being black as well" as the side walls in the cockpit are IG color only the post war P-51/F-51 had black cockpits

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Adam Maas Very Obsessed Member

Adam Maas

Posted
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Got to agree with Adam on this one, in general the cockpits were US Interior Green.

The first Mustangs were if everyone remembers built for and designed for the RAF and the interiors of these early Mustangs with the Alison engines were painted the US version of RAF Interior Green

Gets confusing don't it :)

Just to add to the mix there was some P-51's that came out of the Inglewood plant that were painted a "darker shade of interior green" from what I have found out so far it would seam a typing error on the paint mixing instructions issued to Inglewood was the cause

And just to make it even more confusing the maintenance manual for the P-51 from 1944 calls for the painting touch up of the interior in "Interior Green" with the seat in a Dull Dark Green

The seat instructions actually do make sense as many were painted DDG by the subcontractor.

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wellzy Very Obsessed Member

wellzy

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For interior colours of RAF Allison Engined Mustangs, Mk.I, Mk.IA and Mk.II, go to post #88 in this previous thread here on Britmodeller on RAF Allison Mustangs:

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.p...&hl=Mustang

Hi all, Les says thankyou all for your kind wishes, his op was put off till Wednesday, atm he is full of painkillers so he dont know a lot thats going on. He hopes to be out sometime next week, and says sorry he cant keep in contact as he's not allowed the laptop in there. He is looking forward ton catching ujp with everybody.... Angie x

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Bertie McBoatface Blabber Mouth

Bertie McBoatface

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Hi all, Les says thankyou all for your kind wishes, his op was put off till Wednesday, atm he is full of painkillers so he dont know a lot thats going on. He hopes to be out sometime next week, and says sorry he cant keep in contact as he's not allowed the laptop in there. He is looking forward ton catching ujp with everybody.... Angie x

Hello Angie

Give him my best wishes please (and to you).

Don

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Giorgio N Blabber Mouth

Giorgio N

Posted
Posted

First of all, my best wishes to Les for a quick recovery !

Speaking of the meaningless things of life, I've bought a italeri kit to build a subject I always loved and wanted to build since I first saw it in the pages of USAF Plus Fifteen: P-51D 44-63803 during its days with the Kentucky ANG in the '50s. It was by then used as a target tug and sported very colourful markings as shown in this page:

http://www.swissmustangs.ch/20214/20268.html

Now I understand that the Italeri mustang is not the best around, but looks like a honest kit to me. Something will have to be done in the cockpit but mostlY i want to try and do a good job on the markings.

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Wez Completely Obsessed Member

Wez

Posted
Posted

Regarding RAF Mustang I/Ia/II and the transparencies behind the cockpit?

Several pictures I've seen show these areas painted - were these painted transparencies or were they sheet metal replacements with a hole cut in for the camera to peer out of?

If the transparencies painted the interior colour first or just the exterior colours? If they were sheet metal replacements, were they painted on the insides? If so, what colour?

Wez

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ColFord Established Member

ColFord

Posted
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Wez,

It was only on some of the early RAF Mustang Mk.Is fitted with the oblique F.24 camera that had one of a number of variants of camera and lens mount. An early type of camera and lens mount had a sheet metal panel replacement for the Perspex with a metal 'cone' that went inwards from that which enclosed the camera lens. Then there was a simpler version which was just a sheet metal replacement for the Perspex with a cut out to allow the end of the camera lens to either sit just inside the panel or poke out slightly depending on the lens size fitted.

The sheet metal versions did not prove popular, both over engineered and difficult for the ground crew to remove when servicing the camera and lens. Also the pilots didn't like it as it reduced the below average rearward vision from the early style framed cockpit to a level they found unacceptable. From what I can determine, painted externally same as the external camouflage on the area surrounding the rear quarter window. Internally, ideally would have been painted to match the surrounding interior area and to provide corrosion resistance to the sheet metal used. Given that these were a local manufacture item, internally more likely to have been maybe some of the NAA Interior Green provided to local contractors for works repairs, or a locally sourced equivalent of the NAA interior green, could even have been done in the RAF grey-green interior paint which would have been on hand in the MU or contractors works making these at the time.

Next variant was the Perspex window with a shaped cutout to accommodate the camera lens. It was soon found that the hole cut in the Perspex needed strengthening so a doubler plate made of either Perspex or thin sheet metal, held in place with small nuts, bolts and washers. The shape of the cutout ranged from a simple circle, to a more oval shape to a misshapen egg. The Perspex window with reinforced cutout became the standard and remained so for operational use through until the RAF Allison engined Mustangs were retired. Much more preferred as it still gave some rearward vision on that side.

By the time the Mustang Mk.IA came along and the Mk.II after that, the Perspex window with cutout and reinforcing around the edge cutout was pretty well standardised. Depending on the lens size and type, and whether the Mustang in question was set up for the single oblique camera rig or dual oblique camera rig, could have some bearing on the shape and positioning of the cut out in the Perspex quarter window to accommodate the camera and lens.

There is a series of photos around showing a Mustang Mk.IA at AST Hamble with a variant of the earlier style 'solid and cone' type panel replacement, but that was only on trials, not operational use.

Some relevant photos out of the IWM Collection - online.

http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205127072

http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205207961

http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205210385

http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205210786

http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205207898

http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205207897

http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205211830

http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205212770

http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205210788

http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205210855

Some good photos and profiles as well in the 4 volume set of 2TAF by Shores & Thomas.

And don't forget the earlier discussion on RAF Allison Mustangs here at Britmodeller in the thread referred to in my earlier post on 9 Dec.

Regards,

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Bertie McBoatface Blabber Mouth

Bertie McBoatface

Posted
Posted
HI!

how do i paint a faded NMF P-51D?

I'm mean realy faded!!

Oxidised aluminium is more or less pale grey. One approach that might work would be to

use Alclad , say white aluninium, for the heavy traffic areas such as wing roots, mask it

with latex/Mascol applied irregularly and then overspray with the Alclad mixed with a drop

or two of a pale gloss grey enamel paint. Then panel line wash in a slightly darker grey - not black.

I do suggest experimenting before you try it on your model though!

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Wez Completely Obsessed Member

Wez

Posted
Posted
Wez,

It was only on some of the early RAF Mustang Mk.Is fitted with the oblique F.24 camera that had one of a number of variants of camera and lens mount. An early type of camera and lens mount had a sheet metal panel replacement for the Perspex with a metal 'cone' that went inwards from that which enclosed the camera lens. Then there was a simpler version which was just a sheet metal replacement for the Perspex with a cut out to allow the end of the camera lens to either sit just inside the panel or poke out slightly depending on the lens size fitted.

The sheet metal versions did not prove popular, both over engineered and difficult for the ground crew to remove when servicing the camera and lens. Also the pilots didn't like it as it reduced the below average rearward vision from the early style framed cockpit to a level they found unacceptable. From what I can determine, painted externally same as the external camouflage on the area surrounding the rear quarter window. Internally, ideally would have been painted to match the surrounding interior area and to provide corrosion resistance to the sheet metal used. Given that these were a local manufacture item, internally more likely to have been maybe some of the NAA Interior Green provided to local contractors for works repairs, or a locally sourced equivalent of the NAA interior green, could even have been done in the RAF grey-green interior paint which would have been on hand in the MU or contractors works making these at the time.

Next variant was the Perspex window with a shaped cutout to accommodate the camera lens. It was soon found that the hole cut in the Perspex needed strengthening so a doubler plate made of either Perspex or thin sheet metal, held in place with small nuts, bolts and washers. The shape of the cutout ranged from a simple circle, to a more oval shape to a misshapen egg. The Perspex window with reinforced cutout became the standard and remained so for operational use through until the RAF Allison engined Mustangs were retired. Much more preferred as it still gave some rearward vision on that side.

By the time the Mustang Mk.IA came along and the Mk.II after that, the Perspex window with cutout and reinforcing around the edge cutout was pretty well standardised. Depending on the lens size and type, and whether the Mustang in question was set up for the single oblique camera rig or dual oblique camera rig, could have some bearing on the shape and positioning of the cut out in the Perspex quarter window to accommodate the camera and lens.

There is a series of photos around showing a Mustang Mk.IA at AST Hamble with a variant of the earlier style 'solid and cone' type panel replacement, but that was only on trials, not operational use.

Some relevant photos out of the IWM Collection - online.

http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205127072

http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205207961

http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205210385

http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205210786

http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205207898

http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205207897

http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205211830

http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205212770

http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205210788

http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205210855

Some good photos and profiles as well in the 4 volume set of 2TAF by Shores & Thomas.

And don't forget the earlier discussion on RAF Allison Mustangs here at Britmodeller in the thread referred to in my earlier post on 9 Dec.

Regards,

Colin,

Thanks for your comprehensive reply (should've known it'd be you that'd answer my question).

Special thanks for those links - very useful :thumbsup2:

Wez

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Bertie McBoatface Blabber Mouth

Bertie McBoatface

Posted
Posted
HI Per

Thank you very much, is it possible to use other things than Alclad?? I don't have any of that stuf :(

one Somalian Mustang coming op!

I suppose any silver paint would do the job? I don't really know. BTW I'm assuming you will be spraying as brushing one metallic over another may not work very well. Also, I have no experience with acrylics so if that's your medium, you are on your own. :)

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