Mark M Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 im working on a few Wif project and got thinking, what do we have left to carry out an anti shipping role, say we had to take out a tanker, or carrier the nimrods gone, no harriers i know hawks can carry anti shipping weapons, but can tonkas and typhoons, if so what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pte1643 Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Seaking? I mean as ASW... Not under a Tornado. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark M Posted November 14, 2011 Author Share Posted November 14, 2011 but seaking would not have the range or speed to take out a mordern battleship ?martel, ?harpoon ?sea eagle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pte1643 Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 mordern battleship Bit of an Oxymoron there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark M Posted November 14, 2011 Author Share Posted November 14, 2011 Bit of an Oxymoron there... lol but as a (not being political) agentinian ship or carrier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonD Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 im working on a few Wif project and got thinking, what do we have left to carry out an anti shipping role, say we had to take out a tanker, or carrier Two blokes in a rowing boat equipped with sticky bombs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintsPhil Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 The tornado was anti ship in its GR1B guise, maybe the GR4 is still equipped?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilfish Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Tonkas are cleared to carry Sea Eagle, so I would say they could carry anti-shipping Martel too. German ones carry Kormoran. If they're not already cleared for them, I doubt it would take much to integrate Harpoon to the Tonka either.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark M Posted November 14, 2011 Author Share Posted November 14, 2011 so has any current aircrew actually fired one? so tonkas is all we have i guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 (edited) Sea Eagle was withdrawn several years ago. The only airborne anti ship capability we would have these days would be bombs, or perhaps Brimstone or Storm Shadow, neither of which are ideal in that role!! More likley, sub-borne Tomahawks or ship launched Harpoons would be the weapon of choice for long range anti-shipping. The RAF website says the only antishipping weapon they have is the Stingray! http://www.raf.mod.uk/equipment/antishipping.cfm and that's out of date (Although they were once tested on Sea Harrier, and I beleive Tornado) Edited November 14, 2011 by Dave Fleming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark M Posted November 14, 2011 Author Share Posted November 14, 2011 Sea Eagle was withdrawn several years ago.The only airborne anti ship capability we would have these days would be bombs, or perhaps Brimstone or Storm Shadow, neither of which are ideal in that role!! More likley, sub-borne Tomahawks or ship launched Harpoons would be the weapon of choice for long range anti-shipping. none of them work too well on moving targets that are firing back and it takes a while to get ships or subs anywhere quickly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippyBing Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 The RAF website says the only antishipping weapon they have is the Stingray! RN Lynx have Sea Skua, although to be fair you don't want to go against a particularly well armed ship with that, or they can spot for a Harpoon launched from a ship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark M Posted November 14, 2011 Author Share Posted November 14, 2011 (edited) we havent got anything left to drop a stingray have we? its looking like the RAF no longer has a anti shipping capability Edited November 14, 2011 by markmarples Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippyBing Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 we havent got anything left to drop a stingray have we?its looking like the RAF no longer has a anti shipping capability RN Lynx and Merlin but as you say, the RAF no longer has an anti-shipping capability. Mind you dropping a Sting Ray against anything armed with more than a pea shooter is pretty much suicidal as it'll have a range advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 none of them work too well on moving targets that are firing back and it takes a while to get ships or subs anywhere quickly A Sub-Harpoon not working too well ? It's a much harder threat to react to than a Sea Eagles armed Tornado, one of the most dangerous enemy every ship captain can face! And as we're talking anti-shipping, the speed of the submarine is not a problem, as the target would probably be even slower. If you're looking into a Whif, then the Harpoon could be easily enough integrated in the Tornado. Failing that, the german Kormoran could be integrated in the same way as it was on German and Italian Tornadoes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtd350 Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Two blokes in a rowing boat equipped with sticky bombs? :hmmm: that might just work if you can get them stuck on under water Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnT Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Two blokes in a rowing boat equipped with sticky bombs? Thats not the RAF - its the Marines doing a reprise of the cockleshell heroes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyot Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 The RNHF have an airworthy Swordfish with another due to be airworthy again soon and a third in the wings.........they were good enough for the Bismark and the Italian fleet! LOL..... Tony O Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark M Posted November 14, 2011 Author Share Posted November 14, 2011 A Sub-Harpoon not working too well ? It's a much harder threat to react to than a Sea Eagles armed Tornado, one of the most dangerous enemy every ship captain can face! And as we're talking anti-shipping, the speed of the submarine is not a problem, as the target would probably be even slower. If you're looking into a Whif, then the Harpoon could be easily enough integrated in the Tornado. Failing that, the german Kormoran could be integrated in the same way as it was on German and Italian Tornadoes i ment the reference to the brimstone and lgb in the big scale of things if somthing was to kick off qickly and we needed to strike fast, the chances of a sub being nearby arnt that good as we dont have to many! so an airborne strike would normally be prefarable but we dont have one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4scourge7 Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 We`ve splashed out on the block IV Tomahawk because it can be targeted against a moving object and/or re-programmed in flight, I presume this is why the new Astutes don`t need sub-Harpoon. As for the RAF, no-ones suggested ALARM? It`s designed to home in on radar emmissions (much like an ASuW missile), and if a ship turns off it`s radar to avoid ALARM then it`s blind to bombing runs with other forms of ordnance. Probly (bit of a guess), But I do assume we have some way of rapidly defending our island against maritime threats. `Yes/maybe/we`re all doomed` (delete as applicable). Cheers. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark M Posted November 14, 2011 Author Share Posted November 14, 2011 alarms a good idea, but taking out its radar wont sink a ship and many nations deploy a fleet so can cover each other for radar you could use the same ida with a winder homing in on the ships heat signature Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzo the Magnificent Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 The RAF website says the only antishipping weapon they have is the Stingray! They take a while to get to the target. Anything could happen in the next half hour! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Mark, an enemy ship is not something that can materialise out of the blue and moves very fast, moving a SSN to counter it is faster than it looks. In time of tension where a potential maritime attack is expected the SSN fleet would already be stationed along the most likely routes of movements of the enemy. It's no accident that the Belgrano was sunk by an SSN and not by a plane: both the US/NATO and the soviets have always put great importance in SSNs as a way to destroy strategically important enemy ships. Regarding the ALARM, ARM missiles are potentially very dangerous weapons for a ship. During the Vietnam war a US cruiser (the USS Worden) was hit by accident by a Shrike and was put completely out of action and defenceless for more than a hour. The ship crew then managed to restart engines and electric generatoes but the ship was forced to pull off station and move to the Philippines for repairs as there was no other way to repair the radar systems. Considering that apart from the big soviet types no ASM missile can sink a major warship anyway, disabling the combat systems in this way is as good as a kill. Of course in case somehing is needed, a good bomb load is more than capable to cripple a warship. The success of such a mission depends on the AA defences of the enemy: the Falklands have shown that older aircrafts like the Skyhawks could inflict serious damages to then modern warships so it can be expected that against a similar enemy a flight of 4 Tornado with 4 1000 Lb bombs each would have no problem in putting a ship out of action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark M Posted November 14, 2011 Author Share Posted November 14, 2011 giorgio i see what you say and it makes sense, but so did sea eagle, your comments on skyhawks were right but look at what an exocet can do! my point is we dont now have a dedicated anti shipping weapon / aircraft why? many other countries have them including germany! surely a island nation with overseas island territories should have some form of dedicated weapon for me this was a fact finding question for use in a future WIF build im doing and has given me options and ideas what i have gained is that a anti ship missile would be good but..... if not anything else that goes bang will work it 1, enough of them are put on target and 2 we are ready to take losses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4scourge7 Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 alarms a good idea, but taking out its radar wont sink a ship and many nations deploy a fleet so can cover each other for radaryou could use the same ida with a winder homing in on the ships heat signature Fair point Mark, but you`re not looking to sink a ship in the Hood/Bismark sense. A supersonic missile hitting a ship`s sensor suite is going to nullify the threat from that ship as modern ships are very lightly protected (armour wise) and rely on their delicate and sophisticated electronics. If you can blind a ship`s sensors it cannot continue to threaten your aircraft, or much else. Many warships put out of action in recent conflicts did not sink, they were rendered unoperational by hits on vital systems, and as modern warships are packed with vital systems, any kind of hit is serious. Ships are very good at protecting against heat signatures (such as spraying all surfaces with sea water etc..) but they either use radar or are blind. And they are a much bigger radar emitter than an SA-8, Roland, etc.... But, as this is something not publicly addressed by the RAF, this is all theoretical whiffery I`m coming out with. Sorry for the unashamed guessing on my part, I now return you all to your normal scheduled broadcast. Cheers, Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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