Derek Bradshaw Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 Hi Guys, Just a quick peak at one of my 'other' master patterns. This one is a 1/72 scale Gannet AS.4 baggage/mail pod and pylon assembly for Model Art Decal System. It is intended that the pod and pylon are to be moulded as a single one-piece unit, and is designed to fit the Trumpeter Gannet kit, although I suspect that it shall fit the Revell and Frog/Novo kits equally as well. The hardest part was trying to establish the actual dimensions of the pod and pylon. Luckily, there is a preserved Gannet AEW.3 (I think near Gatwick airport) that has a baggage pod fitted, and this has been measured up for me. The pylon is another problem altogether. As there are no existing AS.1 - 4 Gannet aircraft preserved in the UK with pylons fitted (which differ from the AEW pylons quite considerably), my only option was to estimate the shape and size from drawings and photographs. Using the SAM Warpaint book as a reference point, I calculated and checked three individual and differing points of reference in order to confirm the pylon size and shape. Once I was satisfied with the dimensions, I derw a 1/72 scale three-view plan of the pod and pylon in order to make the pattern from. The largest diameter plastic rod I have is 6.00mm diameter - the pod is 7.00mm diameter. I adressed this problem by wrapping the plastic rod with a 0.3mm plastic card sheet covering, producing the correct diameter rod for the pod. The next phase was to shape the ends of the pod. This was achieved by making a template, and filing/sanding each end to the correct shape. Next was the flat top to the pod. On the actual pod, I had calculated that the sides of the flat pod top form an angle of 40 degrees before meeting the rounded shape of the pod itself, therefore, I made a 40 degree template in order to correctly mark this demarcation on the pod sides. The flat top of the pod is a 0.5mm x 3.0mm strip of shaped plastic card glued to the top of the pod. I have filled the gap between the flat top strip and the sides of the pod with Milliput, which, once cured, shall be sanded to the correct contours to blend the flat top strip into the pod. More pictures to follow as progress is made. Derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexwh773 Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 The hardest part was trying to establish the actual dimensions of the pod and pylon. Luckily, there is a preserved Gannet AEW.3 (I think near Gatwick airport) that has a baggage pod fitted, and this has been measured up for me. Derek I thought I recognised those nettles and that lump of metal Derek, youre correct, shes XL472 at Gatwick Aviation Museum, Charlwood. This looks an interesting project and look forwards to seeing the end result. Thanks for sharing Bex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousFO98 Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 This is great stuff Derek- fascinating in mags you get the obligatory, "then i scratch built X"- yeah great- but how? hopefully even a numpty like meself can pick up some tips! thankyou. i don't know if you can help on this but i need to scratch build a similar looking pod slung under the centre line of some Shar 2's - have seen this on a specific aircraft i want to build. it isn't likely the pod is the same type that you built but i have not come across any info about the stowage pod. any help would be much appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 Derek. One thing that I have used when I needed a tubular shaped part, was to use the barrel of a Biro type pen, they come in many diameters, and being usually made of plastic are easy to work and glue. Watching your progress with great interest. Robin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homebee Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 (edited) Another serious problem. I'm still searching pictures and detail views of the general arrangement of the navigator & passenger cockpits of a Gannet C.O.D. 4 that are for sure different - with Admirals Swivel Chair? - from the subhunter A.S.4 type. There is one Gannet C.O.D.4 (XA466) preserved in the FAA Museum's storage facility at Yeovilton ( http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=301329 / http://www.targeta.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/pages/051_0685a.htm / http://www.fleetairarm.com/exhibits/planes.asp?plane=129 ). I'd be very interested by some good pictures of the three cockpits - and why not an in depth walk around - of this old bird. V.P. Edited November 7, 2008 by Homebee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edge Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 Hi Derek Looks great. Are there any plans to scale it up to 1/48 for the CA kits? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homebee Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 And what's the matter with the 1/48th FAA Models resin 100 Gallon Wing Tanks? http://www.a2zeemodels.co.uk/fairey-gannet...anks-2037-p.asp Regards V.P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 Derek, This is good stuff - Magna did some underwing pods for COD Gannets some years past. I know I haven't fitted them so they must be lurking somewhere up in the loft. I'm pretty sure they came with the pylons moulded on, the next time I'm up there I'll have a look for them if it helps? Wez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 Derek, Just had to go up to the loft to get some paint and actually managed to find the Magna pods. The first thing I noticed is that they're perfectly circular in profile with no flat on top and they lack the strakes/hinges. The pod is 8mm in diameter and is made up in two sections with a combined length of 35mm. The pylon is attached to the tank and is 17.5mm long x 2.25mm wide. The aft end of the pylon is 3mm high rising to 4mm at the forward end - the top of the pylon curves to match the wing profile. I also dug out the Mark.1 volume on the Gannet which has some 1/72nd scale plans of the rotary dispenser (which is what I believe the baggage pods were made from) as well as the Universal Wing Carrier - pylon to you and me. In these drawings the pod is 7mm in diameter, the flat section on top being 3mm wide, the pod itself is a gnat's crotchet over 29mm long. The pylon itself measures out at 22.5mm long x 2.25mm wide. Aft depth measures out at 2.75mm, forward is 4.5mm. There are two sets of sway braces - the first set a 5mm aft of the pylon leading edge, the second set at approximately 11.25mm from the leading edge. I'd scan this section of the plans if I could be sure that my scanner wouldn't shrink/expand them. HTH Wez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edge Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 And what's the matter with the 1/48th FAA Models resin 100 Gallon Wing Tanks?http://www.a2zeemodels.co.uk/fairey-gannet...anks-2037-p.asp Regards V.P. Must be a bit of a cabbage because I thought that baggage pods would be different to fuel tanks. I've had a look in my Ad Hoc Gannet book and to my untrained eye it appears that the COD 4 underwing pod is very similar to a Saunders-Roe rotary dispenser fitted to the A/S variants? Interestingly(??) the AEW3 appeared to use a totally different style of underwing tank - possibly from a Hunter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Bradshaw Posted November 7, 2008 Author Share Posted November 7, 2008 Gents (and Lady), Thank you very much for your interesting responses. Bex: I thought it was the one at your museum - I hope that you shall stay tuned. Walrus: Thank you for your comments. I do not know what the Sea Harrier pod looks like, but it may be a converted 100 gal drop tanks - I'd have to see some pictures to advise you more accurately. Robin: You are correct about the plastic Biro pen cases - I simply do not have anything that comes to the correct size or shape. V.P.: I am sure that you are correct about the interior of the C.O.D. Gannet AS.4s - I do not have any information about this type of Gannet, and definately no interior pictures (maybe someone has some Naval air publications somewhere?) - nice picture of the one at Yeovilton though. I suspect that it would have been stripped of all non-essential internal equipment, replacing such equipment with comfortable leather seating - there may also have been some specially made cargo panniers to fit inside the bomb bay. Wez/Edge: Thank you for your comments also. As far as I know, Model Art Decals has no plans to produce a 1/48 scale set of these pods/pylons. From what I can see, the FAA 1/48 100gal drop tanks and pylons look somewhat different to the mail/baggage pods that I am making. From your description of the 1/72 Magna pod, it sound more like a tank than the baggage pod (which probably is based off the Saunders-Roe rotary dispenser) - it is 1mm too large in diameter, and 4mm too long in length (maybe closer to the 100 gal drop tank?). The drawing in the Mk.1 volume sounds much closer to the mark, and confirms that I have probably got it about right (I would love to see a scan of these drawings). My pod - measured directly from a preserved example - measures (in 1/72 scale) at 31mm OAL x 7mm diameter (7.5mm depth when allowing for the flat part at the top of the pod). The flat length at the top of the pod measures 3mm in width - so this pretty well matches the drawing. The pylon OAL works out at 19mm, with a width of 3.5mm (which tapers quite noticably at the leading edge of the pylon). The pylon depth works out at 5.5mm at the fwd end, and 3.6mm at the aft end (slightly deeper that the drawing) - it is approximately 5/6 of the depth of the AEW.3 Gannet pylon. You have also confirmed my suspicions about there been two support struts on the inside face of each pylon (very difficult to see in photographs). If anyone has got any additional clear pictures of the pod and pylon fitted to Gannet AS.4s the they can post, this would help me. Many thanks Derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexwh773 Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 Gents (and Lady),Thank you very much for your interesting responses. Bex: I thought it was the one at your museum - I hope that you shall stay tuned. Many thanks Derek Bexy staying tuned to this thread................ 1. Derek, its one of your threads 2. Our Gannet has helped your project 3. Bexy like Gannets too.......... a Trumpy on the ceiling & a Revell in the stash Come on Derek, hurry up, I wanna see this finished Bex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousDFB1 Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 Ohh just found this one Derek, another loyal fan watching as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Bradshaw Posted November 7, 2008 Author Share Posted November 7, 2008 Mish/Bex, Thank you girls Derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousFO98 Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 (edited) thanks Derek. The Shar pod on centre line http://www.av8-images.com/shar001_22.jpg http://www.airshows.co.uk/feature-reports/...isbandment.html pretty certain it isn't the same pod as the Gannet- it was unlikely- but to my admittedly untrained eye, it doesn't look like the 100 gal tank either. I would appreciate any help. Edited November 7, 2008 by walrus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Bradshaw Posted November 8, 2008 Author Share Posted November 8, 2008 thanks Derek.The Shar pod on centre line http://www.av8-images.com/shar001_22.jpg http://www.airshows.co.uk/feature-reports/...isbandment.html pretty certain it isn't the same pod as the Gannet- it was unlikely- but to my admittedly untrained eye, it doesn't look like the 100 gal tank either. I would appreciate any help. Hi Walrus, Hmm...I'll have to do a little more digging, although I am sure that some knowledgable person on this website shall know exactly what they are. I used to have access to all of the Sea Harrier drawing set (I work at BAE SYSTEMS on Hawk aircraft), but unfortunately, that database no longer exists. To me, it looks very similar in overall shape and size to the CBLS pods fitted to the other FRS.2/FA.2 aircraft (and appears to be a fit specfically for that aircraft type). It looks a little like two CBLS pod ends mated to a new centre section, but I shall need better pictures to confirm this. HTH Derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Bradshaw Posted November 8, 2008 Author Share Posted November 8, 2008 Some more update pictures. I have sanded and shaped the Milliput to form the correct form for the flat baggage pod top area. The next job was the pylon. For this, I elected to use two seperate pices of scrap plastic from a vacform kit backing, which when superglued together, produces the correct thickness for the pylon. Why did I choose to do this when I could have used a single pice of plastic sheet of the correct thickness? Well. using two seperate pieces provides you with a ready made (and permanent) centre line - very useful when you have to shape both sides of the pylon symmetrically (which shall be my next task). So far, I have cut the plastic lamination to the correct side profile shape and size for the pylon, which you can see resting on the pod just to give you an impression of how the pair look together. Derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KLP Publishing Posted November 8, 2008 Share Posted November 8, 2008 Masterful as always Derek! Such a learning experience following one of your threads. Kev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousDFB1 Posted November 8, 2008 Share Posted November 8, 2008 Good work Derek and fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousFO98 Posted November 8, 2008 Share Posted November 8, 2008 cool idea about using two pieces of card to dreate a centre line nice n easy does it! simplicity rocks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Bradshaw Posted November 8, 2008 Author Share Posted November 8, 2008 cool idea about using two pieces of card to dreate a centre linenice n easy does it! simplicity rocks! Thanks Walrus. I have looked at quite a few pictures on the internet of the Sea Harrier luggage pod. It appears to be a unique design (the closest I have seen, from memory, could be a reccon pod carried by Jaguar aircraft that look similar in shape). I cannot estimate the size of the pod at present, but I have seen a couple of photographs of Harrier GR.7/9s fitted with the same pod. HTH Derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Bradshaw Posted November 10, 2008 Author Share Posted November 10, 2008 (edited) Final lap. The pylon is now fully shaped. The two sway crutches needed to be cut into the pylon - these were filed out. As the files are not thin enough to produce a neat, small, cut-out, I had to line them with a sandwhich of (0.23mm) plastic card. Once dried, these were sanded to conform to the pylon shape. The next job was scribing in all of the panel lines and door details on the pylon. I used all sorts of tools to achieve this (see picture below). To these panel lines was added some 0.25mm plastic rod strips to represent the door hinges and stiffeners (these rods were sanded until just proud of the fairing surface once dried). Final pylon details were a couple of drilled holes and sway brace attachment points. I needed to attach four small round attachments at the top of the pylon. To do this, I drilled two 0.5mm holes straight through the fairing, and inserted (and glued) two oversized lengths of 0.5mm plastic rod. This ensured that all four attachments were identically located, and offered maximum security for the plastic rod during the subsequent sanding stage, Once dried, these attachment rods were also sanded down until just proud of the pylon surface. The pod was similarly detailed. The fore and aft section likes were scribed in and the lower hinge strakes added from som 0.23mm plastic rod. My usual trick of using thin vynil tape to represent various stiffener plate came into use again (this time, employed to represent the crutch arn hard points, the dimond shaped section securing plates, and the plate securing the pod slinging points). After application of the vynil stiffeners, they were all secured in place with a coat of Johnsons Klear acrylic floor polish, and the rivet detail was then embosed into the corners of the various stiffeners using a pin-vice with a pin chucked into it. The pod slinging pick-up spigots themselves were made fron 0.6mm plastic rod 'turned' by hand on the edge of a triangular file - they were then glued into pre-drilled holes at either side of the pod at the correct angles. The final job was to attach the pylon to the pod and fabricate the sway crutch arms for the pylon (from some 0.4mm plastic rod). All that is now required is to give this pattern a coat of primer, and it is then ready for casting. Derek Edited November 10, 2008 by Derek Bradshaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousFO98 Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 Thanks for taking the time to look for the Harrier pod Derek- much appreciated. i will make a best guess at it until something more concrete turns up. Many thanks also for this thread. Seeing excellent modelling skills displayed can be intimidating. But they can also be inspiring. This thread is definitely the latter for me. I shall never attain your high standards but watching how you go about it is encouraging and i can try to achieve some scratch built parts within my own limitations. Fantastic stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Bradshaw Posted November 10, 2008 Author Share Posted November 10, 2008 (edited) The pod and pylon now have their final coat of paint, so you can judge how it shall look when casted. I have temporarily blu-tacked it onto the underside of a Trumpeter Gannet wing (it is the only bit of the kit that I have - loaned to me by Model Art Decals as a reference piece). I shall hand it over to Jean-Pierre at Telford next Saturday. Now, where's that next pattern?... Derek Edited November 10, 2008 by Derek Bradshaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Bradshaw Posted November 10, 2008 Author Share Posted November 10, 2008 (edited) Thanks for looking. Regards Derek Edited November 10, 2008 by Derek Bradshaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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