Martian Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 Hi Guys! Now I know you are going to think I have lost the plot but I have been working on the old Lindberg Victor kit. The kit repreents neither the prototype the decals claim, the tail is completely wrong for a start, or the B1, the tail is correct but the tail plane bullet is wrong and the nose too short. Anyway I am working my way through the various corrections and have started to lengthen the nose by the required 42 scale inches at the plenum chamber, just aft of the cabin. This is where I need your help. Looking at side on views of B1s there seems to be a distinct variation in the distance between the wing leading edge and the tip of the nose. I know that the 42 inch extension was added onto the first production Victors but it has been sugested that some of the later examples were further extended. Does anyone out there know if this was the case or am I just inagining what I am seeing in the photographs? Why didn't I get stuck into the Matchbox/Revell Victor? Well I thought this might be an easier route to a B1, one lesson learnt, and I fondly remember building the kit on holiday when I was young. I intend to finish this kit on holiday too. I'll try and post some pics when I manage to get to grips with the new camera. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
general melchett Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 Hi Martin ., the B1 was not extended beyond the 42 inches of the initial production batch and the total length stayed constant through out production.Regards the Lindberg kit , I am also making one , but I'm having a go at the first prototype WB771 in the silver / black and red scheme.The kit is not terribly accurate as you say and needs quite a bit of work to make it into either a B1 or the prototype !!Even as the proto it needs the intakes reshaping and enlarging , the tail fin shape changing , the rudder shape altering , and the wings thinned out a fair bit.The cockpit windows are wrong as the 4 large overhead panels , which weren't present on the proto need removing ( they aren't even the same length !) and the undercarriage is also way off scale!.I have cut out the bomb aimers windows to make them correct in scale and the exhausts need work.Also it has gimicky moving surfaces that need fitting and filling To make it into a B1 is a lot of work I'm afraid as you will need to , lengthen fuselage , alter window layout , lengthen the tail cone , open and enlarge ( slightly) the intakes , alter the tail plane chord, modify tail bullet and shorten tail fin , cut off the exhaust fairings, thin the wings, build new scale U/C.and get rid of all the 'orrible panel lines !! Bit of a horror really.I have built the old Frog B1 which is a hell of a lot more accurate , ( though even that has over sized u/c, oversized intakes and incorrect tail plane !) but it's a lot better than the Lindberg ' scaled from plans' kit ! I have got pictures of my B1 if you are interested , but bear in mind this is a very rare kit now , highly collectable and very expensive , I was lucky and got a half built one given to me about 15 years ago and after a lot of work finished it off as a 10 squadron machine based at Cottesmore in the late 1960's. Sorry if this all seems negative but I'm going through this myself at the moment, it can be done but it takes a lot of effort. Cheers, Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted September 26, 2008 Author Share Posted September 26, 2008 Thanks Andy for clearing that one up. Yeah I know the kit is bad but I'm well underway with the corrections I just wanted to get them right. Although the Frog kit would be nice it is way beond my pocket from what I have seen of the prices it commands on Evil Bay. So I'll do what i can with the Lindberg kit and as I say it is partly a nostalgia build so if I can get it to look a bit more like a B1 I will be happy. I would love to see your pictures though. Regards Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
general melchett Posted September 27, 2008 Share Posted September 27, 2008 Hi Martin , I understand your feelings on this and wish you luck with your build. Hopefully I will finish mine some time in the near future ( when the pending pile goes down a bit ). Anyway here's some piccies of my B1. Bear in mind that this took a LOT of work to get near an operational B1. Hope you like them. Cheers, Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
entlim Posted September 27, 2008 Share Posted September 27, 2008 nice......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howard of Effingham Posted September 27, 2008 Share Posted September 27, 2008 (edited) BRILLIANT! GENERAL MELCHETT, BRILLIANT! hmm, spill the beans in full please! as a card carrying HPA member and having bought another RoG Victor K2 this morning, this is a rather impressive model, particularly given its age. i have a RoG 1/96 [nee Frog] victor that is still giving me grief several years after starting it. trevor theveryimpressedhpnut! Edited September 27, 2008 by Howard of Effingham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted September 27, 2008 Author Share Posted September 27, 2008 Thanks for the pics Andy. Inspiration to get mine done for Telford. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
general melchett Posted September 27, 2008 Share Posted September 27, 2008 Thanks everyone , kind words, Trevor old fella the FROG kit was never actually released by anyone else as the moulds were lost to us all ( RIP) many moons ago.The one you are referring to is the old Lindberg kit that was reissued by Revell some years ago and is the very kit that Martin is trying to convert to a B1. It will be a long and tortuous route grasshopper , I'd stick with the Revell/ Matchbox 1/72nd if I were you+ Flightpath set. for a better result. Cheers everyone , PS I have put the kit up on the 'ready for inspection' section as requested by a few kind people... Thanks again , Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmah Posted September 28, 2008 Share Posted September 28, 2008 finished it off as a 10 squadron machine based at Cottesmore in the late 1960's.Cheers, Andy Hi Andy Where did you get the decals from? My dad was in 10 sqn working on Victors in the 60's. I've got 2 of the Matchbox kits and want to backdate them both using the flightpath conversion. Here is a picture he took of 10sqn 'A' flight (including XA928 as your model) while they were out on detatchment in Malaya 1960. Thanks in advance Tim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Posted September 28, 2008 Share Posted September 28, 2008 Don't know if it's relevant, but, in the story of the Black Buck mission, mention is made that 18" was lopped off each wingtip, when the Victors went over to refuelling, to save on wear and tear. Edgar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
general melchett Posted September 28, 2008 Share Posted September 28, 2008 Hi chaps , Tim the decals are custom made from bits and pieces I'm afraid, as no one does them yet ( have a nice word with Colin at Freightdog and he might be persuaded to make a set !!!).Very nice pic , another for the collection, got quite dirty didn't they!.The stripe on the tail bullet is blue and red by the way.Are you able to scan images and make your own decals ? cos that's the only way at the mo .Good luck with your two conversions , well worth it in the end ! Edgar, thanks, yes the wingtips were reduced in span as a compromise for reducing long term stress on the airframes as the aircraft was originally designed to operate at 55,000 ft + in the nuclear bomber role , and as the tankers didn't need to reach this altitude it was decided by HS that the best solution was to reduce span and therefore aerodynamic load at max all up weight at the lower altitudes envisaged for service tanking. Cheers, Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted September 28, 2008 Author Share Posted September 28, 2008 Thanks for the picture Tim; very useful. Today I have ben mostly swearing at the tail planes and elevators. Next time I'll be sensible and get the Matchbox/Revell one out of the stash. It'll be a doddle compared to this thing. Still if i want to have anything ready for Telford I'm just going to have to knuckle under and beat this thing into submission. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gmat Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 Just some useless info, I think that the old Frog kit was also produced by Lincoln and Kleeware and was repopped by another company sometime in the late 70s or early 80s. The tip off was the scale of the newer repops, 1/96. They repopped a number of kits from that line. I'll have to dig through some old magazines to see if I am remembering this info right. Best wishes, Grant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
general melchett Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 Hi Grant, the Lincoln kit you mention was actually a 1/150 scale kit and I believe the other is a re mould of the same kit. The FROG Victor was never remade or reissued by anyone else as the original moulds disappeared many years ago ( unless someone cloned a production kit).The Lincoln kit is a bit of a hybrid like the Lindberg as it has the short fuselage and cockpit glazing of the prototype and tail of a B1.!! I have a couple of the Lincoln ones, which were also produced by Kader, ( just a reboxing of the same kit ) and Empire also released a few of the same as well to add to the confusion , ( no box ,just plastic bag ! !). They also produced a Valiant to the same scale by the way , nice little kits which fit into a 1/144th collection pretty well , no undercarriage but easily made from Welsh models white metal ones. cheers, Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gmat Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 Thank you, Andy. I stand corrected. Best wishes, Grant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
general melchett Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 No problem Grant , bit of a sad old Victor nut , I'm afraid !!...LOL Cheers, Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The wooksta V2.0 Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 Nice Victor, Melchy. You mentioned the Lindberg Victor is quite collectable. I've a Revell boxing that I'd like to sell on, what's a reasonable asking price? I've also got the Lindberg Vulcan to go with it, but apparently the price has fallen through the floor on those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
general melchett Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 (edited) Hi wooksta old fella , sorry but the old Lindberg is not really worth a lot , and the Revell one , even less. I managed to find a Revell one on evil bay for a fiver !!.The first issue here, may fetch 15 to 25 quid depending on condition , however if you've got one of these, then you could be looking at around 80 to 90 quid, definitely the most collectable version.It comes with a joystick that works and moves all the flying surfaces around. The FROG one goes for anywhere between 125 up to 185 , (even seen one go for 225, crazy) , but they are very scarce, I'm quite lucky in that I've acquired two Victors and two Valiants over the years, at that valuation can't bring myself to build any of them !! You're right the Vulcan isn't worth a great deal however it's value is what someone is prepared to pay for it so give it a shot, you never know, I've sold stuff that I thought was worthless for good money Sorry bout that, Andy Edited September 30, 2008 by general melchett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted October 1, 2008 Author Share Posted October 1, 2008 Ah! That expains some of the curious mouldings inside the fuselage halves and the long spigots on the control surfaces. I should have been alerted to the kit's accuracy when i read in the instructions to"paint the model as per the box top or any colour you like"!!!!! Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
general melchett Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 Yep , good old Lindberg , lots of novelty and not much accuracy , their B70 Valkyrie was the same , almost a caricature of the real thing !! Best thing about these kits was the boxtop art .... Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted October 10, 2008 Author Share Posted October 10, 2008 Right. I think I have nearly clubbed this kit into submission, at least all the areas I was woried about. I will begin to paint the cockpit this weekend. Two last questions what colour was the rear of the crew cabin? I know the pilots stations were black but detail pictures of B1s are hard to come by. Also what colour was the wind shield part of the entrance door? I only have B/W pictures of this on B1s and on B and K2s the colour seems to vary. Will have the replacement camera up and running this weekend and wil try to use it to post some pics. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted October 11, 2008 Author Share Posted October 11, 2008 Right my first attempt with the new camera. So be gentle about the quality of the pics! Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousDFB1 Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 Nice, looking good Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Lambess Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 the Lincoln kit you mention was actually a 1/150 scale kit and I believe the other is a re mould of the same kit. The FROG Victor was never remade or reissued by anyone else as the original moulds disappeared many years ago ( unless someone cloned a production kit).The Lincoln kit is a bit of a hybrid like the Lindberg as it has the short fuselage and cockpit glazing of the prototype and tail of a B1.!! Almost entirley correct...... the Frog V-bombers molds were shipped to New Zealand and reissued here by Tri-ang Pedigree NZ ltd in a generic "bomber series" box together with the Canberra , one side of the box had artwork of the Valiant /Vulcan and the rear had the Victor /Canberra ...although the majority were released as Frog kits i have seen a couple of Tri-ang labelled boxes....(i believe these were issued for a very small period in the late 60s early 70s so as not to conflict with Imported Frog branded kits which were handled by a different importer....(well thats the story i was told...) the moulds were eventually sold to Lincoln NZ but never re-issued , the "legend' is that they fell off a ship en-route to Hong Kong , but ive met a ex- traveller for Lincoln who told me they were sold for scrap metal when Lincoln was going belly up in NZ.... along with the DH110 , the English Electric p1 the Scimitar and many many others.......sniff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted October 12, 2008 Author Share Posted October 12, 2008 A couple more pics as I get to grips with the camera. at the moment she is disassembled so I can spray the cabin interior. View of some of the tail area modifications. There needs to be a fairing under the Fin to tailplane joint but this will need to be done when the tailplane is glued on. View of underside. The undercarriage and wheels are only dry fitted at this stage. From time to time We cloud all probably learn from this mantra found on the istruction sheet! Martin I meant this one! Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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