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Question about Griffon powered Spitfires/Seafires...


Artie

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Nuff said :) Please note this is a Shack converted Griffon fitted. so the cast in lifting eyes on the rocker cover have been machined down to allow it to clear the cowlings. but the rocker cover is the same.......

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They were an all-in-one item, with the covers worked to shape in rollers. The shape, and size, actually differed very little from the Merlin-engined variants. The only fasteners were around the edges of the cowling, and the number was increased, for the Griffon, to ensure that the cowling fitted down as tight as possible, since any air leaks caused drag. The number of fasteners was increased, on the VII, VIII, IX & XI, as well, from 27-11-44.

Edgar

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I am lost now, are we talking the cowlings? they differ a lot from the merlin version as it has the bulges added for the rocker covers to fit under. the bulge is riveted into the a cut out in the cowling........

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I have to admit that this is not an area that I've studied, at all. All I have is Peter Cooke's memory, his drawings, and the Supermarine drawing below. This is for the Seafire 46, but appears to show that the bulges were worked in, not separate items.

The gun covers were not separate items, so Supermarine certainly had the ability to work metal to very tight curves.

Edgar

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Edited by Edgar
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Will post you a picture tonight I took today showing them Edgar :)

I am gonna look stupid here, but who is Peter Cooke ? Do you have many drawings Edgar?

Edited by TonyT
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Thank you for your input, Sirs. I find it very useful.

I'm trying to build an old Hobbycraft 1/48 scale Supermarine Seafire Mk.XV (wich I'd like to build as a Royal Canadian Navy example), and the kit's bulges are somehow crappy. I'm trying to update them, so your info is quite useful.

Cheers....

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I am gonna look stupid here, but who is Peter Cooke ? Do you have many drawings Edgar?

Not stupid, just (unfairly) young, I suspect. Back in the 70s, he was IPMS (UK) National Champion, with an Airfix 1/24 Spitfire converted to a XIV; the following year, he won again, with a scratchbuilt 1/24 Tempest; the following year, he should have won again, with a 1/24 Sea Fury, but, after a hurried meeting, the then committee declared that they'd instituted a new rule (that you couldn't be champion more than once,) so they awarded the title to a dreadfully embarrassed Tony Woolett (who hadn't even won his class, coming second to Peter.) Peter then went professional, selling resin Spitfires, Hurricanes, Mosquitoes, Mustangs, and Lancasters, all in 1/24th scale. He has retired, but, if you can find a book entitled "Scratch Built, A Celebration of the Static Scale Airplane Modeller's Craft," it's a co-written effort, together with John Alcorn and George Lee, and it gives a perfect idea of their craft.

I have some of Peter's photos on my computer, not just complete airframes, but parts, too. His drawings were published by Nexus, in Scale Models, consisting of the XII, XIV, and XIX, and should still be available from their successors, whoever they are, now (I can't keep up with it!) My sole remaining copy is decidedly tatty, since I passed my best set on to a manufacturer, who wants to produce a XIV, in 1/24th scale.

Peter admits that he got the fuselages slightly wrong, in side profile, but has supplied me with a corrected drawing of the XIX fuselage. It was Peter, incidentally, who first caused mayhem, in the modelling world, when he spotted the "hump," in the IX cowling.

Edgar

Edited by Edgar
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Not stupid, just (unfairly) young, I suspect. Back in the 70s, he was IPMS (UK) National Champion, with an Airfix 1/24 Spitfire converted to a XIV; the following year, he won again, with a scratchbuilt 1/24 Tempest; the following year, he should have won again, with a 1/24 Sea Fury, but, after a hurried meeting, the then committee declared that they'd instituted a new rule (that you couldn't be champion more than once,) so they awarded the title to a dreadfully embarrassed Tony Woolett (who hadn't even won his class, coming second to Peter.) Peter then went professional, selling resin Spitfires, Hurricanes, Mosquitoes, Mustangs, and Lancasters, all in 1/24th scale. He has retired, but, if you can find a book entitled "Scratch Built, A Celebration of the Static Scale Airplane Modeller's Craft," it's a co-written effort, together with John Alcorn and George Lee, and it gives a perfect idea of their craft.

I have some of Peter's photos on my computer, not just complete airframes, but parts, too. His drawings were published by Nexus, in Scale Models, consisting of the XII, XIV, and XIX, and should still be available from their successors, whoever they are, now (I can't keep up with it!) My sole remaining copy is decidedly tatty, since I passed my best set on to a manufacturer, who wants to produce a XIV, in 1/24th scale.

Peter admits that he got the fuselages slightly wrong, in side profile, but has supplied me with a corrected drawing of the XIX fuselage. It was Peter, incidentally, who first caused mayhem, in the modelling world, when he spotted the "hump," in the IX cowling.

Edgar

Hmm Edgar....... So what would you say if I said to you would you like a CD with 622mb's of original Spitfire drawings on it? :) Sorry for the delay Artie, something came up, but have some photos for you to go with Edgars excellent pictures :) Will try again tomorrow to up them.

Edited by TonyT
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As requested to go with Edgars excellent drawing.... as you can see over the years they have gathered quite a few repairs, as for the working (loose looking) rivets, they are not, it is just the flash makes them look bad. Hope they help :)

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  • 4 years later...

He has retired, but, if you can find a book entitled "Scratch Built, A Celebration of the Static Scale Airplane Modeller's Craft," it's a co-written effort, together with John Alcorn and George Lee, and it gives a perfect idea of their craft.

Bringing this thread back from the dead, I sought out this book on the above recommendation, and it arrived today.

It is excellent, and gives a true insight into various scratch building disciplines. I'd recommend it to anyone.

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:banghead: It's also a somewhat embarrassing thread, seeing what I thought I knew, four years ago, compared to what I've learnt since; a classic case of a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing. :tapedshut::blush: Edited by Edgar
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An excellent opportunity to state the bleedin' obvious, as most will think it- but maybe it'll help someone...

The rocker cover bulges for the upper cowl were separate parts, but they were riveted to the basic upper cowling panel to become as one. They actually nest inside the basic panel, so you tend to see an honest to goodness recessed panel line around the "bulge". So, neglecting access hatches, when you remove the cowling from a Spit, the whole top (above the exhausts) comes off in one BIG piece.

There are numerous replacement bulges available in 1/48, and I haven't yet done a careful study of all options to determine which is accompanied by angelic choirs and a holy glow. Perhaps once I get my mitts on an Airfix XIX I'll launch the Inquisition. (I'm pretty sure Hobbycraft won't be the answer!)

bob

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