Seamus Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 Apologies if this has been brought up before, but I'm after some help. Finally acquired some Humbrol Mattcote to finish me models off with, but have never used the stuff before. So to those that have, some questions: Would you recommend applying it with an airbrush or hairy stick? If airbrushing, what should I thin it with and to what ratio? (The bottle recommends white spirit, but not sure if this is right). And a stupid question, when stirring, I assume all the 'gunk' in the bottom of the jar needs to be throughly mixed in with the solvent? I'd like to get this right as I don't want to wreck a couple of nearly completed models TIA A confused Shaun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Dragon Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 Airbrush preferably, white spirit works OK, try thinning at a 50/50 ratio, yes the "gunk" at the bottom needs some serious stirring-the "gunk" is the matt part of Mattcote. Try applying to an old kit first, that way you can play around with the thinning ratio and air pressure if airbrushing. Phil Apologies if this has been brought up before, but I'm after some help.Finally acquired some Humbrol Mattcote to finish me models off with, but have never used the stuff before. So to those that have, some questions: Would you recommend applying it with an airbrush or hairy stick? If airbrushing, what should I thin it with and to what ratio? (The bottle recommends white spirit, but not sure if this is right). And a stupid question, when stirring, I assume all the 'gunk' in the bottom of the jar needs to be throughly mixed in with the solvent? I'd like to get this right as I don't want to wreck a couple of nearly completed models TIA A confused Shaun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxidad Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 I use a flat, soft brush, as the stuff is so gunky, I am afraid to put it through the airbrush even thinned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousA667 Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 It sprays beautifully if thinned with cellulose. The 'gunk' is the matting agent and if you don't ensure it is mixed completely into solution your Matt Cote won't, if you see what I mean. peebeep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seamus Posted June 26, 2008 Author Share Posted June 26, 2008 Cheers chaps! Not sure I'll go the cellulose route; I can see it now, I thin it with too much of the stuff and end up with a big gooey mess all over my spray box Have tested the stuff using a brush, which seems OK, though I shall try through the AB and see which I prefer. Thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alrite Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 Might be too late but my advise is there is far better stuff out there. Of corse my opinion, but xtracolor matt for example and a few others are much, much easier. From my experience with the humbrol matt, it just did not dry ever lol, although I stirrred and stirred initially, it still was tacky. Xtracolor matt varnish really is brilliant to use, it dries in much less time than the humbrol and gives, what I have found, much more reliable results. Anyways is up to you lol, just thought I'd give the other side of the coin. will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousA667 Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 Not sure I'll go the cellulose route; I can see it now, I thin it with too much of the stuff and end up with a big gooey mess all over my spray box There is no big deal thinning with cellulose, especially when airbrushing - it mostly evaporates before it hits the plastic, especially if you mist the paint on. You might need to be wary about spraying over acrylic, but I have sprayed cellulose thinned varnish over Klear coats and never had any problems. If you follow the sequence paint/Klear/decal/Klear (decal sealing coat)/varnish, you should never have any problems, even if the varnish is well laced with cellulose. peebeep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousA667 Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 Might be too late but my advise is there is far better stuff out there. Of corse my opinion, but xtracolor matt for example and a few others are much, much easier. From my experience with the humbrol matt, it just did not dry ever lol, although I stirrred and stirred initially, it still was tacky. If you had a problem with Matt Cote, you can't have been doing it right. I don't doubt that the Xtracolor stuff is good, but my own experience is that the Humbrol Cotes are capable of superb results. peebeep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darson Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 If you had a problem with Matt Cote, you can't have been doing it right. I don't doubt that the Xtracolor stuff is good, but my own experience is that the Humbrol Cotes are capable of superb results.peebeep I concur with peepbeep, Humbrol MattCote is superb stuff which I thin to about 50/50 with Humbrol thinner and then mist on 2 or 3 coats with the Airbrush. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thx6667 Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 Not sure I'll go the cellulose route; I can see it now, I thin it with too much of the stuff and end up with a big gooey mess all over my spray box That's a lingering modelling myth, it won't melt anything unless you try brush painting the stuff. Some folk prefer to use cellulose (or lacquer) thinners and find that it helps give the paint a better microscopic key. I think Floquil paints used to be "hot" in that regard. I get on well with the Humbrol Acrylic matt varnish, thinning it with a bit of windshield washer fluid does the job if airbrushing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alrite Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 If you had a problem with Matt Cote, you can't have been doing it right. I don't doubt that the Xtracolor stuff is good, but my own experience is that the Humbrol Cotes are capable of superb results.peebeep When I used it I didn't get the results, read many articles about the stuff saying its great etc..., tried it and it didn't work correct for me. Just my experience, I know its meant to be excellent, but I just thought I would shine a light on the product about it not being perfect. TBH I probably had a poor batch, but I've tried others and I've found them to be better. cheers, will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousA667 Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 I just thought I would shine a light on the product about it not being perfect. Sorry to differ Will, but I don't believe you have. You said yourself that it didn't work for you, which is rather different. If you were to be more explicit as to how you used it, those of us who find that it works for us might be able to explain why it didn't work for you. The most common problem with Matt Cote is that the matting agent is not properly stirred into solution. That is why I use cellulose for thinning because it is 'hotter' than white spirit and is more effective at breaking down the 'gloop'. peebeep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratch Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 I find it works perfectly well with a brush. No thinning or having to clean out the airbrush, and it dries perfectly flat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seamus Posted June 27, 2008 Author Share Posted June 27, 2008 Well I went for it and sprayed it, using white spirit as thinners, and its worked a treat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 (edited) That's a lingering modelling myth, it won't melt anything unless you try brush painting the stuff. Oh no it's not, & oh yes it will!! I still have a banana shaped rear wing from a 1/20th Airfix McLaren M8 somwhere to remind me of just that fact. I will admit though that it was because I was trying to spray it with the almost dried up remains of a tin of humbrol silver which I'd thinned with probably about 60-70% cellulose thinner as I was rushing trying to get the thing finished over a weekend & didn't want to wait to get a new tin of paint. I watched it melt before my very eyes - & the model never did get finished!! But I still almost always thin enamels, especially xtracolor, & mattcote, exclusively with cellulose as I find it helps them dry much quicker - especially useful with xtracolor as it takes so long to dry otherwise that it's a perfect dust magnet!! I'm just much more circumspect now with the amount of thinners I use & how thickly I spray it on! Keef Edited June 27, 2008 by keefr22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alrite Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 Sorry to differ Will, but I don't believe you have. You said yourself that it didn't work for you, which is rather different. If you were to be more explicit as to how you used it, those of us who find that it works for us might be able to explain why it didn't work for you. The most common problem with Matt Cote is that the matting agent is not properly stirred into solution. That is why I use cellulose for thinning because it is 'hotter' than white spirit and is more effective at breaking down the 'gloop'. peebeep Well if It didn't work for me, and I know I used it correctly, Its clear that its not 100% perfect. I used it initially on a ROG F-16cj, and didn't get the result, therefore I naturally thought I was doing something wrong. Despite that model being ruined I tried it again on a italeri gripen, and it did the same thing again. 2 models ruined so I've called it quits on the stuff. Here is what I did: Mixed the stuff in the bottle for a very long time, until it was the same right the way through, none of that gung was left anywhere. Thinned the stuff appropiately, sprayed at a low p.s.i in misty coats, a few minutes between them. Left it alone, and the gripen is still tacky to this day, when it was built last easter. Tried xtracolor everytime, perfect finish, alot quicker, alot less fuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousA667 Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 Well if It didn't work for me, and I know I used it correctly, Its clear that its not 100% perfect. Yeah right. And the rest of the world is wrong Seamus is happy and he posed the question so all is well. peebeep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 Yeah right. And the rest of the world is wrong peebeep Well, no actually! Not wishing to hit the horse any harder, Mattcote isn't perfect. Both a friend & myself have been using it for years, up until recently without any problem whatsoever, but that has changed for both of us recently. Firstly he had a new bottle that worked fine the first time he used it. Then on the next model, used in exactly the same way that he always does, it gave, in his words, the most perfect gloss finish that he's ever achieved!! Which, obviously wasn't the result he was expecting. Subsequent tests showed the bottle must have somehow 'gone off' - in about a month! Which is what I also put my most recent experience of Mattcote down to as well. This was using a bottle I'd opened & first used about 6 months ago (I'm a slooowwwww builder!). then it had worked just fine. This time I thoroughly stirred it, thinned it with cellulose & misted it on in about 3-4 coats using the same pressure etc as I always do. This time it dried like coarse sandpaper & also stayed 'tacky' - so much so that I left 3 or 4 lovely thumbprints all over the model when removing the masking. So that model needs re-doing! Now, I have to say that mattcote remains my favourite matt varnish, but it isn't perfect, even when used the same way that it has been since it was introduced to the market!! Keef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LotusArenco Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 Just think, if you all used acrylics, you wouldn't have these problems! Xtracrylix Matt varnish, works every time........ Mart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 Just think, if you all used acrylics, you wouldn't have these problems! Xtracrylix Matt varnish, works every time........ Mart Noooooo - don't start me off about the problems with acrylic matt varnish - like the fact it's hardly ever matt.....!!! Keef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousA667 Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 Now, I have to say that mattcote remains my favourite matt varnish, but it isn't perfect, even when used the same way that it has been since it was introduced to the market!! It would be ridiculous to assert that any product is 100% perfect. Will seems to be saying that it didn't work for him, ergo it must be rubbish. In view of other posts here that is clearly also not the case. There is some evidence that would suggest that QC procedures and supply problems whilst the old management were in charge at Humbrol may be behind some of the problems that have been reported. Xtracrylix Matt varnish, works every time........ If it works for you, stick with it. I know what works for me and I can buy it locally, but that doesn't include Xtracrylix! peebeep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alrite Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 It would be ridiculous to assert that any product is 100% perfect. Will seems to be saying that it didn't work for him, ergo it must be rubbish. In view of other posts here that is clearly also not the case. There is some evidence that would suggest that QC procedures and supply problems whilst the old management were in charge at Humbrol may be behind some of the problems that have been reported.If it works for you, stick with it. I know what works for me and I can buy it locally, but that doesn't include Xtracrylix! peebeep If you look closely I've never said IT IS RUBBISH, but in my opinion I have found it not the best, but, that it did not work for me, and that there are better products out there. And yes the rest of the world is wrong , or maybe like I said I got a duff batch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratch Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 I'll see if I can get the last post in here, before it gets locked because of the childish behaviour :shithappens: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousA667 Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 Might be too late but my advise is there is far better stuff out there. Which means? Ratch is of course quite right. I tried to politely concede that you are perfectly entitled to be 100% happy with whatever you wish to use, but apparently I must soldier on with a totally inferior product. Fair do's. peebeep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard M Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 I've used the cotes quite happily for ages. I find gently warming the bottles on a radiator helps to get all the matting agent back into solution for the Matt and Satin cotes. I use them diluted 1/1 with white spirits and airbrush them on. I do find occasionally that the results, even from the same bottle, can be variable, the satin is sometimes more matt than satin. I always attributed it to different mixing regimes i.e how long I could be bothered to stir and shake it! The varnish stuff in the tinlets is bloomin horrible though! Best Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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