Richard E Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 (edited) Something I've been pondering for a while. What is the source of the panels that are appearing on some RAF Tornado GR4s; from their colour I am assuming that they have been taken from retired F3 airframes. However whilst I can understand why sections of the airframe like leading edge flaps and air brake petals would need to be replaced I'm less sure about some of the fuselage and access panels, whilst you may need to take the panel off to get at what's underneath it why wouldn't you just put the original one back when you've finished? Edited April 25, 2008 by Richard E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
entlim Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 ask Jen as she's the resident RAF techie................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buccymad Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 i will no doubt be instantly corrected,however here goes!!when a tonka goes for maintenance it is stripped down depending on how deep that maintenance is,the next tonka which may be nearing the end of its maintenance schedule will get the parts from the newly arrived airframe ,be it f3 or gr4 and or/a ,just to get it out the door .reason being that the tonka is a modular airframe,i.e one part fits all!!but herein lies the problem ,parts are scarce and not always delivered/available on time,so they are kicked out the door with a fair percentage of the airframe being replaced by donor aircraft,panels and all..... now to be corrected.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
entlim Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 (edited) That's kinda what Jen told me............generally speaking much like the Jags were.... Edited April 25, 2008 by entlim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eng Posted April 26, 2008 Share Posted April 26, 2008 Sound's good to me! I'm just in from work and have done this on 3 separate items this evening to get our aircraft away, a small pipe clamp, a cargo roller mat and a standby flight instrument. We do 737 and Airbus 319/320/321 maintenance at Glasgow and this sort of thing is really common, most commercial airlines call this "robbery", where a component is removed serviceable from a donor aircraft (usually one already in maintenance or one just started in the hangar) and fitted to another in order to make it serviceable. Although it's removed "serviceable" things like the standby flight instrument still require to be tested on fitment to the receiving aircraft to check the integrity of the system and the operation. For us the limiting factor is the effectivity of the aircraft, i.e if it's an A319 going out and a 320 coming in not all the parts are interchangeable and it may not be possible to swap items. Some of the stranger items I've seen robbed included a complete horizontal stabilizer and a baby change table!! Panels are very common. Eng Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted April 26, 2008 Share Posted April 26, 2008 Added to which some of the GR4 fleet have been painted overall Medium Sea grey, so it is more than possible the donor panels came form another GR rather than an F3. Equally, they could have come from reclaimed parts from the F3s that have been scrapped in recent years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickers McFunbus Posted April 26, 2008 Share Posted April 26, 2008 Added to which some of the GR4 fleet have been painted overall Medium Sea grey, so it is more than possible the donor panels came form another GR rather than an F3.Equally, they could have come from reclaimed parts from the F3s that have been scrapped in recent years I'm not sure quite how much commonality there is between GR and F3 Tonka part. I suspect Dave probably has probably hit the nail on the head - quite a few of the GR fleet sport a lighter scheme for jaunts in warmer places do they not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 I'm not sure quite how much commonality there is between GR and F3 Tonka part. I suspect Dave probably has probably hit the nail on the head - quite a few of the GR fleet sport a lighter scheme for jaunts in warmer places do they not? And just to add to the confusion, F-3's are now painted a darker shade of grey also Shaun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaguarfan Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 Hi, so what colour are the GR4s and the F3s painted now? Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 (edited) Hi,so what colour are the GR4s and the F3s painted now? Bob The GR4's are painted overall BS381C:629 Dark camoflage grey. Single tone grey GR4. http://www.airliners.net/photo/UK---Air/Pa...next_id=1346817 Single tone F-3 http://www.airliners.net/photo/UK---Air/Pa...next_id=1347577 The same scheme is also being applyed to the Harrier fleet. http://www.airliners.net/photo/UK---Air/Br...next_id=1276819 Shaun. Edited April 27, 2008 by Shaun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 The are painted overall BS381C:629 Dark camoflage grey.Single tone grey GR4. http://www.airliners.net/photo/UK---Air/Pa...next_id=1346817 Single tone F-3 http://www.airliners.net/photo/UK---Air/Pa...next_id=1347577 The same scheme is also being applyed to the Harrier fleet. http://www.airliners.net/photo/UK---Air/Br...next_id=1276819 Shaun. It's actually Medium Sea Grey - having seen F3s in both schemes next to each other and close by a Typhoon, GR4, and Sea Harrier FA2, the tone on the Darker F3 was lighter than the GR4/Jaguar and Harrier but matched the MSG Sea Harrier exactly. the lighter grey GR4s are lighter than the DCG on Tornados Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 (edited) It's actually Medium Sea Grey - having seen F3s in both schemes next to each other and close by a Typhoon, GR4, and Sea Harrier FA2, the tone on the Darker F3 was lighter than the GR4/Jaguar and Harrier but matched the MSG Sea Harrier exactly.the lighter grey GR4s are lighter than the DCG on Tornados "The lighter grey GR4s are lighter than the DCG on Tornados" What shade are they? This hobby is getting harder all the time!, bring back the old Dark Sea Gray/Dark Green schemes So, we are talking at least four shades of grey possable on a panel from the tin before weathering/fading. Edited April 27, 2008 by Shaun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 (edited) "The lighter grey GR4s are lighter than the DCG on Tornados"What shade are they? This hobby is getting harder all the time!, bring back the old Dark Sea Gray/Dark Green schemes So, we are talking at least four shades of grey possable on a panel from the tin before weathering/fading. It was supposed to be Medium Sea grey as well - http://www.airliners.net/photo/UK---Air/Pa...-GR4/1345188/L/ Compare the shot you posted with this one taken in almost identical location/time and you see the first aircraft is lighter on the fuselage sides http://www.airliners.net/photo/UK---Air/Pa...GR4A/1346939/L/ MSG is a funny colour which can look light or dark - especially in todays loww IRR paints. However, looking at some pictures, there mightwell be some overall DCG ones as well. Edited April 27, 2008 by Dave Fleming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatchet Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 Hold on - is the F.3 Med Sea and the GR.4 Dark Camo overall, or is it the other way round? I'm going cross-eyed from this Gimme some F-16 blocks to explain instead! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 (edited) Here is a photo showing a nice collection of varous shades of panels. http://www.airliners.net/photo/UK---Air/Pa...next_id=1301808 Check how light a shade the trailing edge wing panels are. I think this aircraft has all the possable shades/colours displayed. Shaun. Edited April 27, 2008 by Shaun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julien Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 (edited) Here is a photo showing a nice collection of varous shades of panels.http://www.airliners.net/photo/UK---Air/Pa...next_id=1301808 Check how light a shade the trailing edge wing panels are. I think this aircraft has all the possable shades/colours displayed. Shaun. If you did that for a comp the judges would throw it out! I also noted that some aircraft have grey radomes; While some still have the old black ones; Also if anyone is doing a Tornado with the pannels open, note the red/orange around the egdes; Julien Edited April 28, 2008 by Julien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard E Posted April 28, 2008 Author Share Posted April 28, 2008 Here is a photo showing a nice collection of varous shades of panels.http://www.airliners.net/photo/UK---Air/Pa...next_id=1301808 Check how light a shade the trailing edge wing panels are. I think this aircraft has all the possable shades/colours displayed. Shaun. And the BOZ pod is still green as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 (edited) Something I've been pondering for a while.What is the source of the panels that are appearing on some RAF Tornado GR4s; from their colour I am assuming that they have been taken from retired F3 airframes. However whilst I can understand why sections of the airframe like leading edge flaps and air brake petals would need to be replaced I'm less sure about some of the fuselage and access panels, whilst you may need to take the panel off to get at what's underneath it why wouldn't you just put the original one back when you've finished? Today I asked a mate in work who used to be an Airframe Tech on Tornado about the current panel patchwork. I showed him this thread and he replied with a few interesting answers. Some panels are interchangeable between the F-3 and GR4 (mainly wing panels), but he also said that some panels on the GR4 won't fit another GR4 because some panels were redesigned between production blocks. One reason why panels are changes so regularly is because they can crack along rivet/fixing holes and show other signs of fatigue and stress. He said who cares what colour the panel is, if the aircraft is need back on the line for the next sortie or task. The panels come from various sources, and can be stripped from either a hanger queen or aircraft that have been spares recovered before scraping,from a workshop panel repair bay or could be a new panel. He said currently with the RAF being over stretched with both man power and costs, getting a panel painted to match an airframe is a low priority if the aircraft is need back in service. He did admit that it makes the aircraft look a little rough and the RAF lacking pride in the aircraft, but it's a sign of the times in which we are curently operating. Edited April 28, 2008 by Shaun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_c Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 (edited) we have the same regarding Merlins. some aircraft leave our depth maintenance facility looking worse than when they went in! we have a seperate panel bay where removed panels (all of them get removed) get 'serviced'. due to financial restrictions this servicing usually consists of replacing u/s fasteners and giving it the odd splodge of paint. panels rarely get a full spray unless they are brand new. these panels then tend to migrate to different aircraft, and, especially concerning the Navy Merlins, the difference in colour shade is very marked. back in the old days of my time with the Sea King HMF, every aircraft got a full respray during its servicing and they used to come out looking brand new in their nice gloss yellow, really adding to our sense of pride and profesionalism. unfortunately these days are gone and i'm yet to see a Merlin get a full respray Edited April 28, 2008 by paul_c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard E Posted April 28, 2008 Author Share Posted April 28, 2008 He said currently with the RAF being over stretched with both man power and costs, getting a panel painted to match an airframe is a low priority if the aircraft is need back in service.He did admit that it makes the aircraft look a little rough and the RAF lacking pride in the aircraft, but it's a sign of the times in which we are curently operating. Nail, on head and hit !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jens Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 i'm yet to see a Merlin get a full respray Come on, you guys repainted the Mk. 3As instead of keeping our fancy golden-green scheme. Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 (edited) I also noted that some aircraft have grey radomes; While some still have the old black ones; Julien There appears to be no patern to which airframes have the grey nose cone. These first appeared on the light grey painted GR4 used during Operation Telic. Currently the newer painted lighter grey GR4s tend to have the grey nose radome fitted but not all! http://www.airliners.net/photo/UK---Air/Pa...next_id=1346817 As with all modeling, you have to check which aircraft you are building. Edited April 28, 2008 by Shaun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_c Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 Come on, you guys repainted the Mk. 3As instead of keeping our fancy golden-green scheme. Regards, they were brand new aircraft though Jens and painting them the same as the 3's means we can still swap panels! lol. some of the Navy aircraft are about 10 years old now and the only paint they have seen is a rattle can touch up in random places! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in Lincs Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 And just to add to this, there is currently a program running in Saudi Arabia to strip the wings and other useable parts from their relatively low timed airframes to add to the spares stock. So it's unlikely, but there could be a RAF Tonka with brown camouflaged wings! Pete (In Lincolnshire on hols until May 8th!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julien Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 Just to add I shot some walkround type pics at Marham last year including open pannels etc. If anyone wants any then let me know. Julien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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