F-84 Photo recon mod

[dahut]

I was surprised to learn that some straightwing F-84's (E's and G's) were modified by France in the 50's to carry a camera package for foto recon work. This consisted of a belly camera just forward of the pilot, which replaced the battery. They modified a standard Fletcher wingtip tank to carry a camera and mounted it on the port wingtip.

As it turns out, this modification to the standard Thunderjet was successful enough to warrant it's further acceptance and use by other NATO countries, notably Norway and Holland. I have one foto of a RNoAF F-84E in flight, showing both tip tanks as the Fletcher type - aircraft T3-U, out of Sola.

It was common for the other countries to use the Fletcher type tank on both wings in this configuration. As I get it, only France did the one-off wingtip installation.

Keep in mind, this was not the same as RF-84F Thunderstreak - that was a separate aircraft.

Does anyone know where I can find a foto or two of this modded installation. Especially of interest is the wingtip tank camera. Foto's of it are reputedly rare, but I thought I might ask around here.

Edited April 25, 2008 by dahut

[Jens]

Some Danish F-84Gs had tip tank mounted cameras too.

Regards,

[Homebee]

Model Art has produced a 1/72 and 1/48th F-84E/G Thunderjet recce pod that is in fact a modified Fletcher wing tip tank.

This type of recce pod was also in use with Belgian Air Force - 42 Sqn

http://www.amv83.fr/modelaccess.htm

http://www.amv83.fr/Modelart/macces003.jpg

V.P.

Edited April 25, 2008 by Homebee

[dahut]

Thanks for the input guys. I had faith that someone here would know more.

Several NATO countries used this, Jens, as far as I know - Denmark included. While it was an expedient, really, I suppose it was a good alternative to buying an entire RF-84.

Homebee, I recently got a set of the ModelArt decals, which are what inspired this whole gambit in the first place. What started out as a simple build of the little Heller 1/72 F-84 has morphed into a genuine project.

I tried to find the Model Art tank offering, but no luck. I will make my own camera tank if I must, but maybe you can suggest a source for the MA stuff?

Edited April 26, 2008 by dahut

[hatchet]

I think (and I'm sure Jens will correct me if he knows better) that our RF-84Gs had both the fuselage and tip-tank pylon. The tip-tanks were pilfered off T-33s, standard tank on one wing, the camera-equipped one on the other.

The ®F-84G is the fighter we've had the most off, 214 total I think it was, with up to 190-or-so at any one time.

[dahut]

I think (and I'm sure Jens will correct me if he knows better) that our RF-84Gs had both the fuselage and tip-tank pylon. The tip-tanks were pilfered off T-33s, standard tank on one wing, the camera-equipped one on the other.

The ®F-84G is the fighter we've had the most off, 214 total I think it was, with up to 190-or-so at any one time.

Youre right about this Hatchet. The tip-tank camera pod's were originally Fletcher tanks from T-33's. The French first cobbled them up, as I understand it. Clever blokes, them Frenchies.

From there, these modded aircraft made their way 'round the NATO alliance. Some had the "French" one-off camera tanks on the port wing with the standard F-84 tank on the starboard. Denmark and Holland did it this way, at least on some of their Thunderjets.

Norway, however, seemed to have a penchant for doing both wings with matching Fletcher tanks. The starboard side was a fuel tank, the port side the camera pod, like this:

All of them had the fuselage camera mounting, which replaced the battery.

It did vary, though, and it would be nice to have pics to go by - but there aren't many. However I did get these bits, which show what we're trying to accomplish. They may be of use to others:

The camera pod, itself. Bad pic, but the only one I could find.

Line drawing of the entire mod, in 1/72 scale.

Im doing the Norwegian one you see in the pic, or it's squadron mate, T3-Y. Both are covered on the ModelArt decal sheet I have.

Edited April 26, 2008 by dahut

[Jens]

Youre right about this Hatchet. The tip-tank camera pod's were originally Fletcher tanks from T-33's. The French first cobbled them up, as I understand it. Clever blokes, them Frenchies.

From there, these modded aircraft made their way 'round the NATO alliance. Some had the "French" one-off camera tanks on the port wing with the standard F-84 tank on the starboard. Denmark and Holland did it this way, at least on some of their Thunderjets.

Norway, however, seemed to have a penchant for doing both wings with matching Fletcher tanks. The starboard side was a fuel tank, the port side the camera pod, like this:

All of them had the fuselage camera mounting, which replaced the battery.

All the Danish ones I have seen pictures of have identical tanks on the wing tips. This doesn't mean they have not used an assymetrical load though.

Regards,

[Miroslav]

Maybe interesting... Yugoslav modification on the F-84G like reconnoitre aircraft. Used tri cameras K-24.

[Miroslav]

...and these...

Cheers!

[hatchet]

Fotoflighten på FSN Karup anvendte et mindre antal F-84G udstyret med to T-33 tiptanke, af hvilke den venstre husede noget af kameraudrustningen. Resten sad i bunden af kroppen.

The Photoflight on Karup AFB used a small number of F-84Gs with 2 T-33 tiptanks, where the left one housed some of the camera equipment. The rest of the equipment was in the bottom of the fuselage.

i 1957, havde Flyvevåbnet modtaget i alt 238 fly af F-84G typen. Hverken før eller siden har dansk forsvar rådet over så mange fly af samme type. Blandt andet på grund af en del havarier og den lange leveringsperiode var der dog ikke på noget tidspunkt over 190 af typen i tjeneste samtidigt.

By 1957, Flyvevåbnet had recieved a total of 238 of the F-84G type. because of several mishaps and the long delivery time, there were, however, never more than 190 in service at the same time.

Draken Team Karup

Edited April 26, 2008 by hatchet

[dahut]

Yugoslavia also did this, yes. The Yugo's were an odd arrangment, I gather - not NATO, not wholly Warsaw pact. They used all sorts of equipment, both Western and Soviet. Most of you likely know more about all that than I ever will.

But I gather they made their own version of the photo recon mods to their F-84's. Nice pics.

It seems the asymmetrical load out was maybe less common outside of France than the 2 Fletcher tank version. References are scarce and hard to pin down for sure.

[ReccePhreak]

...

Edited February 2, 2020 by ReccePhreak
Changed mind

[Tbolt]

I'm trying to find info on the F-84G photo recon mods done that the Danish and Yugoslav Air Forces used. 

 

From what I understand the tip tanks ( T-33 ones? ) were modded with cameras and there may have been a camera fitted in the fuselage. I found this old article here, but all the pictures are gone.

 

This modeller made one using a MADS resin conversion. Anyone know anything about it?

 

 https://gramho.com/media/2165249952196738740

 

So does anyone have and details, photos or drawings of these mods or can point me to where there are any?

 

 

 

 

[72modeler]

On 4/26/2008 at 11:01 AM, dahut said:

Clever blokes, them Frenchies.

Nah- more likely they didn't want to part with the Francs to buy proper recce pods! 😜

Mike

[Julien]

2 threads merged, can we only have 1 thread per topic please.

 

Julien

[Diego]

Here some details of Danish and Yugoslav RF-84Gs:

Note that the RDAF birds have 2 Fletcher tip tanks installed, the left one modified with a camera nose, as well as a camera under the fuselage. 

The Yugoslav birds have standard tip tanks and under-fuselage camera only.

It is also worth noting that the second Danish Thunderjet "KA-D" in NMF has a camouflaged replacement right wing:

Edited January 27, 2020 by Diego

[Tbolt]

On 1/27/2020 at 8:05 AM, Diego said:

Here some details of Danish and Yugoslav RF-84Gs:

Note that the RDAF birds have 2 Fletcher tip tanks installed, the left one modified with a camera nose, as well as a camera under the fuselage. 

The Yugoslav birds have standard tip tanks and under-fuselage camera only.

It is also worth noting that the second Danish Thunderjet "KA-D" in NMF has a camouflaged replacement right wing:

 

Great, thanks a lot for the info.

[Kari Lumppio]

Hello!

 

Vingtor (active here too) has downloadable pdf at his site of the Norwegian (R)F-84E:

http://vingtor.net/downloads/VMC-1.pdf

 

Very good material.

 

Cheers,

Kari

[Tbolt]

On 1/30/2020 at 7:54 PM, Kari Lumppio said:

Hello!

 

Vingtor (active here too) has downloadable pdf at his site of the Norwegian (R)F-84E:

http://vingtor.net/downloads/VMC-1.pdf

 

Very good material.

 

Cheers,

Kari

Thanks a lot for that.

[Tbolt]

On 1/27/2020 at 8:05 AM, Diego said:

Here some details of Danish and Yugoslav RF-84Gs:

Note that the RDAF birds have 2 Fletcher tip tanks installed, the left one modified with a camera nose, as well as a camera under the fuselage. 

The Yugoslav birds have standard tip tanks and under-fuselage camera only.

It is also worth noting that the second Danish Thunderjet "KA-D" in NMF has a camouflaged replacement right wing:

 

Interesting you say that the Yugoslav aircraft have standard tip tanks, as the one in the Belgrade Aviation Museum has the camera tanks as well.

 

 

But the forward aircraft here has unmodified tanks and the rear one seems to have a modded right tank?

 

 

This airframe looks to have a camera tank on the left side.

 

 

Standard tanks here.

 

 

So I'm going to go for the Yugoslav 517 with standard tanks. I can't find a close up of the fuselage camera but I've got a few shots that will help me get some where near, though I am struggling to find a picture of 571 to see what the camo pattern is like.

 

 

 

 

 

[Jure Miljevic]

Hello Tbolt

571 must have been painted in an experimental scheme, as I have never seen a photo of this aircraft, nor of any other Yugoslav Thunderjet painted in such a way. My suggestion is to find another Yugoslav F-84 decals set and build a model in a standard scheme. Cheers

Jure

[Diego]

# 571 has indeed an experimental scheme, with black codes - the drawings on the instruction sheet are based on several photos published in Yugoslav aviation magazines and books during the late 1980s. This aircraft had standard tanks. 

 

# 525 has T-33 tanks installed. As the tanks were fully interchangeable, the "photo-tank" could be installed on the left or the right wing, as desired and needed. Unfortunately, I don't know how many others Yugoslav  recce -Thunderjets flew with the Fletcher tanks, but, in any case, there were not many.

Anyway, #525 has one of the standard camouflage patterns applied, with white codes. 

 

It is worth mentioning that Yugoslavia used another unique modification, the IF-86D Sabre Dog, modified for the recce role with the installation of cameras under the forward fuselage.

 

Edited February 3, 2020 by Diego

[Jure Miljevic]

Many F-84Gs had been gradually modified during their service in Yugoslavia. 10525 started with nose number 25 and Titova stafeta emblem, in NM overall, with standard 1740 l wingtip tanks and without fuselage camera. Tbolt, if you wish to build fighter-reconnaissance IF-84G with standard tanks, both black 535 and 554 in NM have them, as well as camouflaged white 701. I would not worry too much about fairing, that was just a curved piece of metal, bolted under the fuselage to prevent dirt, flying off the front wheel during take-off, from covering camera lens. A sketch Diego posted, along with your photos, should suffice.

Diego, IF-86D had Mighty Mouse FFAR tray removed and replaced with a three K-24 cameras. Also, two pylons for extra equipment had been added, but their primary task was to carry photo-flash and parachute illumination bombs for night reconnaissance. IF-86Ds were the only Yugoslav Sabres still in service, if only just, in 70', as the last one had been phased out in 1970. Cheers

Jure

[Tbolt]

23 hours ago, Jure Miljevic said:

Hello Tbolt

571 must have been painted in an experimental scheme, as I have never seen a photo of this aircraft, nor of any other Yugoslav Thunderjet painted in such a way. My suggestion is to find another Yugoslav F-84 decals set and build a model in a standard scheme. Cheers

Jure

I suspected it was an experimental scheme and the fact that it's different is why I was interesting in modelling this scheme.

[Tbolt]

8 hours ago, Jure Miljevic said:

Many F-84Gs had been gradually modified during their service in Yugoslavia. 10525 started with nose number 25 and Titova stafeta emblem, in NM overall, with standard 1740 l wingtip tanks and without fuselage camera. Tbolt, if you wish to build fighter-reconnaissance IF-84G with standard tanks, both black 535 and 554 in NM have them, as well as camouflaged white 701. I would not worry too much about fairing, that was just a curved piece of metal, bolted under the fuselage to prevent dirt, flying off the front wheel during take-off, from covering camera lens. A sketch Diego posted, along with your photos, should suffice.

Diego, IF-86D had Mighty Mouse FFAR tray removed and replaced with a three K-24 cameras. Also, two pylons for extra equipment had been added, but their primary task was to carry photo-flash and parachute illumination bombs for night reconnaissance. IF-86Ds were the only Yugoslav Sabres still in service, if only just, in 70', as the last one had been phased out in 1970. Cheers

Jure

I was thinking of doing 701 if I cant get a picture of 571 as I can just get some white numbers using the other 571 decals.

 

As for the camera, so the lens ( or glass over the lens ) is just flush with the fuselage and doesn't extend into the fairing at all?