New RAF CAS platform

[aeroplanedriver]

Hello all! I've got a week off work, and the house to myself for a few days, so out came the modeling gear! I picked up a nice little Revell Frogfoot today, and as many of you know by now, I'm a whiffing addict, so here is the story I came up with:

*******

In March 2008 Prime Minister Gordon Brown was taken by surprise when three defense chiefs exercised their constitutional right to meet with the PM. By the end of the meeting the three had threatened to resign if something wasn't done to address the critical overstretch of the armed services. Round after round of cuts combined with combat deployments on two fronts had left the nation's military in tatters. Even the press were rallying to the support of the forces.

Brown agreed to a defense review, which was concluded in June 2008. Among the problem areas identified was a need for increased Close Air Support for UK forces in Afghanistan. While Britain's commitment to Iraq was drawing down and expected to end relatively soon, in was widely acknowledged that British troops would likely be in Afghanistan for a decade or longer. With increased delays to the F-35 program, the heavy burden on the Harrier force was likely to cause a critical capability gap before the Lightning entered service around 2018. Typhoon was readying for deployment, but this was seen as an expensive way to counter an insurgency.

Several options were examined to increas the RAF's CAS capability, including modifying Shorts Tucanos for the COIN mission, leasing F-16s from the US, purchasing additional Hawk 128s with full weapons capability, and fully funding the Nimrod MRA.4 PGM capability. Two of these options; the Nimrod bomber and the COIN Tucano were singled out for further study and funding, but none could fill the immediate urgent need for additional support.

With pressure mounting on the government to act, BAE Systems came forward with a unique proposal. Saab Aerospace was attempting to sell additional Grippen aircraft to the Czech Republic, but the Czechs wanted Saab to take 30 retired Soviet-era Su25 Frogfoot aircraft as part payment for an additional 6 Grippens. Desperate for additional export orders, Saab began thinking outside the box and approached BAES with the idea of modifying and refitting the Sukhois for RAF use.

BAE's proposal was extremely cost effective, with the Sukhoi airframes being priced at under $4m each. BAE offered to update the SU25s with the advanced avionics packages salvaged from the RAF's own Jaguar GR.3s. Retired Tornado F.3s would donate their Mauser 27mm cannon to replace the 30mm guns in the Sukhois, and their Martin-Baker ejection seats. Other equipment, such as refueling probes and chaff/flare dispensers would also be salvaged from recently retired equipment. In addition to the 27mm gun, RAF SU25s would be modified to carry 500 and 1,000lb GP bombs, Paveway II and IV LGBs, CRV7 rockets, and external cannon pods as well as Maverick and Brimstone missiles. Though not specifically a part of the RAF offer due to the lack of an air-to-air threat in the Afghan theatre, the BAE-Sukhois would also be capable of carrying ASRAAM. The Jaguar avionics were already TIALD capable, and an additional Litening capability could be added.

BAE's offer was for 22 upgraded Su25s plus support and training contracts, at a price that even the Brown government found irresistable. The contract was signed on September 9, 2008, with first delivery expected within 8 months.

At first there was some shock and resistance within the RAF at the thought of operating former Soviet equipment, but it soon sank in that the service was recieving a rugged, capable CAS platform at a time when it was needed most. However it was also obvious that 'Frogfoot GR.1' was not going to work out. In an effort to increase public awareness and support of the armed forces, the MoD allowed the children's television program 'Blue Peter' to hold a competition to name the new aircraft.

******

I normally dont have any trouble ocming up with a name for a whif project, but I'm struggling on this one. My two ideas so far are Scorpion GR.1 and Vampire GR.1. I like Scorpion because that is the name of the Elbit upgraded Su25s, and I like Vampire because I like aircraft named for mythical creatures, and Vampire highlights the Slavic link. I also dislike Scorpion because this is distinct from the Elbit machine, and I dislike Vampire due to the obvious confusion with the earlier Vampire. With the F-35 the RAF have shown that current policyt is not against reusing recent names, but still, I'm not sure about it...

So, what is the board input? Scorpion? Vampire? other ideas??

I'll post some im-progress pics as the build progresses. I'm a bit of a speed builder and already have the 'pit done and the gear painted, so I'll probably finish by Sunday.

Edited March 22, 2008 by aeroplanedriver

[hatchet]

Great idea and a good backstory APD!

Names, hmm

Hyena, giving the RAF the last laugh

Taipan, \

Jackall, - it's got a big bite

Tiger /

Any use?

[Mike]

Eric?

[DamienB]

Tempest! If nothing else it'll hack off Daz

[Gary West]

Tempest! If nothing else it'll hack off Daz

or....Typhoon and confuse everybody

[Gary West]

More sriously (believe it or not) how about Guardian, Angel or Supressor.

[daz greenwood]

? What's gonna hack me off. I can't see anything in there thats offensive.

Edited March 22, 2008 by daz greenwood

[DamienB]

Doh! I meant Erwin! It's those avatar piccies - separated at birth...?

http://www.britmodeler.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=12214

[Mattie Bee]

Scimitar?

Cutlass?

Scimitar?

Cutlass?

[aeroplanedriver]

More sriously (believe it or not) how about Guardian, Angel or Supressor.

Ahh, but Guardian is already in use in my whif world...

RAF Guardian AC.1A

So far two names suggested on the whif site are leading hte pack; Badger and Wolverine.

I'm really partial to mythological/legendary names, and I'd like something that goes along with the Su25's slavic roots, but 'Werewolf GR.1' seems a bit of a mouthfull. Anyone think of anything similar that rolls off the tongue? I do want ot keep it anglicized, not a purely foreign name. Great suggestions so far though, particularly "Eric", but since it is a whole aircraft and not a half-an-aircraft it may not work.

Edited March 22, 2008 by aeroplanedriver

[bentwaters81tfw]

Impaler? As in Vlad.

Edited March 22, 2008 by bentwaters81tfw

[hatchet]

Sable?

A small carnivore, lives mainly in Russia

[Seamus]

For my university final year group project last year, we had to design a Counter Insurgency aircraft, which would incorporate CAS into its role.

We decided on the name Cerberus, the three headed dog that guards the gates of hades, which we thought was pretty appropriate!

Heres a pic for those interested

Edited March 23, 2008 by Seamus

[Radish]

Why not change the names round a bit:

instead of "Vampire".... Vampyr

or...

Nosferatu

or

Wraith

or

Crusader

Sounds good.

I've just bought the Revell kit myself, but it'll be real (SHOCK HORROR!!!) in Ukrainian markings

[aeroplanedriver]

Rad,

I've thought about Vampyr. Hadn't considered Wraith though, kinda like that one too. Crusader would be a nice slap in the face to the PC crowd, but for this conflict is probably a bit TOO un-PC. I'd hate for Britmodeler to end up getting death threats!

So far I think I've narrowed the names down to:

Vampyr

Wraith

Raven

Jackal

Wolverine

Badger

Keep the great ideas coming guys. We'll find a name for her sometime today!

[hatchet]

Vampyr

Wraith

Raven

Jackal

Wolverine

Badger

Of those, I'd probably go with Wraith, with Jackal second. Wolverine third, but that's a bit 'Hugh Jackman' innit? Raven is nice, but that's really the EF-111. Badger's some old Soviet bomber.

I still think Sable sounds cool. Same family as wolverine too.

Sable GR.1

[GreenDragon]

How about Kestrel or Panther? From those suggested earlier I like Raven and Wraith.

Paul Harrison

[aeroplanedriver]

Here is an update pic taken right before painting showing a couple of the RAF mods-the IFR probe came from an Esci F-5A, and the chaff/flare dispensers on the rear fuselage are from a Jaguar (just like in the backstory).

On the naming front, I think I've narrowed it down to 'Raven' or "Jackal'. I think I like Raven better, but Jackal seems to fit the intended theatre of operations really well.

[Smiffy]

I'm really partial to mythological/legendary names, and I'd like something that goes along with the Su25's slavic roots, but 'Werewolf GR.1' seems a bit of a mouthfull.

If you like the werewolf theme, what about Lycan.

Or how about one from Greek mythology, Cerberus. The beast which guarded the gates to hell.

[Roland Pulfrew]

Raven? Jackal??

Not sure that either of those would be acceptable to the RAF, which has, afterall, a long tradition of using winds or birds of prey as the basis for its FJ aircraft names. Given the proposed role and that Typhoon has been reintroduced I would consider Tempest or Whirlwind G1, GR1 or GA1 depending upon your choice of weaponry.

[aeroplanedriver]

Raven? Jackal??

Not sure that either of those would be acceptable to the RAF, which has, afterall, a long tradition of using winds or birds of prey as the basis for its FJ aircraft names. Given the proposed role and that Typhoon has been reintroduced I would consider Tempest or Whirlwind G1, GR1 or GA1 depending upon your choice of weaponry.

I understand what you're saying and considered a more 'traditional' name. However, I want to go with something that highlights the foreign origin of the aircraft. Imagine the outrage if an ex-Soviet type was named "Spitfire II". why should a classic 'British' name like 'Tempest' be different?

All of the wind names have traditionally come from UK-designed/UK-partner aircraft. Bird of Prey names of the recent past have really just been 'Harrier' and 'Hawk'. I think 'Raven' fits in with this theme, especially given the tradition of Ravens guarding the Tower.

Apart from the familiar bird/wind names there have been plenty of examples of other naming conventions over the past 50-60 year though. There have been mythology/supernatural names: Phantom, Vulcan, Wyvern, Hercules, Vampire, Nimrod..., Land mammal names: Jaguar, Lynx, Vixen, Puma, Gazelle..., and names that don't really fall into a convention such as Buccanneer and Lightning. While this list isnt limited to fast-jets, there are several major recent fighter/attack types in this list.

Edited March 24, 2008 by aeroplanedriver

[upnorth]

If you like Raven, how about going for "Rook"? I believe that's actually what the Russians officially called it. It fits the bird theme.

I'd stay away from sable actually. The Su-25 isn't actually that small; its quite imposing in presence and quite robust in construction.

Perhaps something like Grizzly would fit it better.

[Jon Kunac-Tabinor]

How about Cyclone?

The Russian for Hurricane is ciklon, so you have a good transliteration in both languages, and it keeps a family lineage back to the dear old Hurribomber.

On a different note - wouldn't it have a somewhat negative effect on Afghan hearts & minds seeing Su-25s overhead again? I mean the Soviets used them to great effect in their Afghan war, so they would surely have very negative connotations to your average Afghani villager.

Just a thought - I know its a Whiff.

Cheers

JonKT

[T-Tango]

Must admit I quite like either Raven or Cyclone.

[Roland Pulfrew]

Imagine the outrage if an ex-Soviet type was named "Spitfire II". why should a classic 'British' name like 'Tempest' be different

Spitfire because of its links with the Battle of Britain, I would accept, but then how many of the great British Unwashed would actually even remember the Tempest or the Whirlwind?

I think Raven is too close in time to the EF111A to be viable name for a British jet, it is just too closely associated with the 111.

I think there was a naming convention used ie Bombers named after cities until the V-bomber days. Don't forget that Phantom and Bucc were naval aircraft first passed on to the RAF after the TSR2/Mountbatten/carrier debacle. For 'fighters' the "winds" theme still holds true: Hurricane, Tempest, Typhoon, Whirlwind, Tornado, Typhoon II, so Cyclone would be a good choice (in fact it was considered for the Eurofighter but rejected because of its links to Cyclon-B. Birds of prey are still valid Kestrel; Harrier; Hawk but I guess Eagle is right out. Raven and Rook? Just not war-ry enough!