Alan P Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Very nasty crosswind landing and - why do so many kids spell "pilots" like "violets"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Brown pants time me thinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 fook-a-me! Now that was a pair of wingtips with a bloody good idea of what the runway looks like! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousA667 Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Much discussion about this clip on A. N. Other website. I'm sure the professional pilots have a 'view' about this! peebeep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexwh773 Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Much discussion about this clip on A. N. Other website. peebeep And on here too see: Cwazy Wabbit Thread Certainly one brave flight crew thats for sure Bexxxy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousA667 Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 (edited) Certainly one brave flight crew thats for sure Consensus amongst the pros is that they were one crazy flight crew. Personally I will refrain from comment as I'm sure those who know about these things will add their tuppence. peebeep Edited March 5, 2008 by peebeep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexwh773 Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Consensus amongst the pros is that they were one crazy flight crew. Personally I will refrain from comment as I'm sure those who know about these things will add their tuppence.peebeep Im no plane driver expert PB, but having seen the footage, and spending most of my time listening to US ATC via the net, surely when told about Crosswind SPeed, it wont take a genious to work out if its safe or not to try and put her down, I still stick to brave, but yes I have to agree with the experts also, totally crazy. Bexxxy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fmk.6john Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Bex All due respect but brave and crazy are two qualities that I don't want in an aircrew while I am a passenger, bravery is for the armed forces not a civil cockpit. The pilots in this case where very unfortunate in making the call to land, the crosswind will have been at the high end of the scale but not enough to divert, the unfortunate thing is that at the point of landing there was an allmighty gust that resulted in what we saw. The pilots IMHO made the right desision to land and were caught out, they had the skill and profesionalism to carryout an aborted landing with minimal damage to the airframe and making a textbook landing second time round. My hats off to the crew, and the cabin cleaners !!!!!. Right back into me box.......John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan P Posted March 5, 2008 Author Share Posted March 5, 2008 (edited) All due respect but brave and crazy are two qualities that I don't want in an aircrew while I am a passenger, bravery is for the armed forces not a civil cockpit.The pilots in this case where very unfortunate in making the call to land, the crosswind will have been at the high end of the scale but not enough to divert, the unfortunate thing is that at the point of landing there was an allmighty gust that resulted in what we saw. The pilots IMHO made the right desision to land and were caught out, they had the skill and profesionalism to carryout an aborted landing with minimal damage to the airframe and making a textbook landing second time round. My hats off to the crew, and the cabin cleaners !!!!!. Thank you John! PB I obviously wouldn't have posted this if I thought they were being numptys. I might have gone around a bit earlier after the big sink they got, and then started to land long, (I would have hit TOGA at about 37 secs into the video!) but i'm sure Mark (busdriver) will agree the Scarebus doesn't like big gusts near the x-wind limit and they got away with it quite well! Edited March 5, 2008 by PHaTNesS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fmk.6john Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 PHatNEsS May I enquire as to what TOGA stands for?. Regards, John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 (edited) Hmmmmm, well...... OK, TOGA stands for Take Off / Go- Around and referes to the thrust demanded of the engines. To put it simply, TOGA thrust will be the maximum thrust available. Yes, agree that I would have gone around a LOT earlier but why would they conduct an approach in thise conditions? The weather on that day at Hamburg was as follows: EDDH 011220Z 29028G48KT 9000 -SHRA FEW011 BKN014 07/05 Q0984 TEMPO 29035G55KT 4000 SHRA BKN008 Which for those of you unfamiliar with the format reads as follows: The actual weather forecast was issued for Hamburg (EDDH) at 1220hrs on the 1st March and shows that the wind was from the direction 290° (that's just about west) and was blowing ar 28kts, gusting 48kts. Visibility was 9000m in light showers of rain, cloud base was 1100ft, blah blah.... The TEMPO bit means that the windspeed will temporarily rise to 35kts, gusting 55kts and the visibility reducing to 4000m in showers, cloud base reducing to 800ft. The runway being used for landing was Rwy23, so that's a 60° difference beteen runway direction and wind direction meaning that approximately 3/4 of the windspeed would be a crosswind component. Basic maths here, so 3/4 of the maximum winspeed is 26kts, but 41kts of the maximum gust value. The Maximum demonstrated crosswind values for the A320 are 33kts and gusting 38kts. Let me say that again, The Maximum demonstrated crosswind values for the A320 are 33kts and gusting 38kts. Aircraft Operations Manuals are written by lawyers these days and there is no published limit just demonstrated values that have been performed. The fact is that the crew did the right thing by breaking off from the landing by going around and then trying again, this time they were succesful and everyone walked away. The problem is that Journolists get hold of these reports and then all of a sudden the windspeed was 155mph (Daliy Mail!) and the facts get distorted. Sorry about the grammar and spelling, just got back from a four sector day..... Edited March 5, 2008 by busdriver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousA667 Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 (edited) I might have gone around a bit earlier after the big sink they got, and then started to land long You said it bro. I would've thought overshooting the threshold by a mile was reason enough, but I ain't qualified enough to carp and in any case I know what it's like when the little voice in your brain starts to say 'Gotta land it, gotta land it, gotta land it.' The jocks will mince me for this, but TOGA is a panic button (Take Off/Go Around) peebeep Edited March 5, 2008 by peebeep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eng Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 Really tempted to tease the wingleted flier's here but not today! This is pretty scary and I'm right with BusDriver and PHaTNesS on the call for an earlier go-around. From the point of view of an Engineer, hopefully all the damage in this instance has been taken by the winglets which can be removed fairly quickly, and if necessary the aircraft flown without one or both (Correct me if I'm wrong, BD!). The penalty for removal of winglets is usually slightly higher fuel burn and more drag, again BD will know the exact fig's. The procedure for removal and re-calculating fuel is found in the aircraft MEL (Minimum Equipment List - a book listing what systems and components the aircraft can have removed or de-activated without any risks to the safe operation of the aircraft. It also details how this must be carried out, and what the engineers and crew need to be aware of as well as limits as to how long the items can be made inoperative). Doesn't look like a hard touchdown so heavy landing checks probably not required, just a damn good inspection of the wingtip structure...........and cleaning of some pax seat covers! Eng Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 The jocks will mince me for this, but TOGA is a panic button No panic button on the 'bus, but the VC-10 actually did have one. Eng is spot on regarding the loss, or removal of the winglets. These are at the end of The wing and designed to reduce induced drag. It's a simple procedure to remove them, fix up the hole with high speed tape (honestly!!) and then using the MEL, calculate the extra fuel burn for the sector, which if my memory serves me right is about 3%, but don't quote me! I'd always use the book in the real world As for Really tempted to tease the wingleted flier's here but not today! I assume you mean the Airbus guys? Well, if that is the case then what about... And not an Airbus amongst them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousA667 Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Nice one busdriver! That panel looks really archaic now, eh? Even the Grobs we get to fly at AEF have a better one than that! peebeep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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