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Help - RAF Fortress III


Alan P

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Greetings fellow Airheads,

I would like to build my Monogram B-17G as one of 214 Sqn's Fortress III electronic warfare thingys.

I notice they had the standard fit tail turret, some extra antennae at the tail for jamming German nightfighter radar, and carried the Jostle VHF spoofing rig with its large antenna on the top fuselage. So far I haven't been able to find any pics of the H2S blister in place of the chin turret, and would be grateful for any help.

Any other noticeable* differences between the Fortress III and the standard Boeing B-17G?

Any and all help would be greatly appreciated.

Al

EDIT: while I'm here, what internal colours were used on RAF late Forts? Did they keep the US interior green and aluminium or was any of it repainted grey-green or black?

*as in external, or right by the windows internally! Ta!

Edited by PHaTNesS
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Greetings fellow Airheads,

I would like to build my Monogram B-17G as one of 214 Sqn's Fortress III electronic warfare thingys.

I notice they had the standard fit tail turret, some extra antennae at the tail for jamming German nightfighter radar, and carried the Jostle VHF spoofing rig with its large antenna on the top fuselage. So far I haven't been able to find any pics of the H2S blister in place of the chin turret, and would be grateful for any help.

Any other noticeable* differences between the Fortress III and the standard Boeing B-17G?

Any and all help would be greatly appreciated.

Al

EDIT: while I'm here, what internal colours were used on RAF late Forts? Did they keep the US interior green and aluminium or was any of it repainted grey-green or black?

*as in external, or right by the windows internally! Ta!

Hi Al

A couple of books that will help are Confound and Destroy by Martin Streetly and Counfounding the Reich by Martin Bowman. The first book has been out of print for twenty years but your local library could help and the second one is currently available from a major online bookstore! Confound and Destroy in particular has a lot of detail in relation to the Forts that were used by RAF 100 Group to support Bomber Command, including side views with the H2S chin blister in place, marking schemes and information on antenna fit. Some Fort III's had the Cheyenne tail turret fitted - the diagram in the Streetly book shows such a Fort with the four Airborne Grocer antenna mounted on the tail replaced with a single Monica antenna. As far as i can see, the RAF Forts remained in their US internal colours.

Hope this is of some help?

Regards

The Doc :analintruder:

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another one with some good (albeit b&w) photographs in it is A Thousand Shall Fall by a 214 pilot Murray Peden - I got my copy through Ebay. I'd scan them in but I dont have a scanner I'm afraid.

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Confound and Destroy is the classic book on the subject, but you might particularly like the follow-up, something like Modelling the Aircraft of 100 Group, which was a collation of a series of articles Martin did for Scale Models.

Cheers Graham, couldn't find that one but I have just ordered "C&D"!

Thanks again folks,

Alan

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Martin Streetly's book is titled "The Aircraft of 100 Group, A Historical Guide for the Modeller." It was published by Robert Hale Ltd., in 1984, with an ISBN of 0 7090 1043 5.

Loans can be arranged.

Edgar

Edited by Edgar
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Interesting post, and it's got me thinking of doing my RevHell 1/72nd B-17F as a Coastal Command jobbie. Well, it is a turd of a kit.

Geddit?

:coat:

No - but won't it be a bit complex for you - no struts or rigging etc. And I think the one in the picture is a "G".

Thanks Neil - so glad my memory is not completely shot!

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No - but won't it be a bit complex for you - no struts or rigging etc. And I think the one in the picture is a "G".

Thanks Neil - so glad my memory is not completely shot!

Ahh, but by all accounts this kit is a horror to build, so therein lies the challenge. I checked on what Coastal flew, and they did use F's as well.

Anyway, must firstly finish my DH88 Comet, Concorde and the Revell Hurricane. I've also got the monster Hurricane beckoning, so we'll see.

Gotha anyone?

:deadhorse:

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one thing I'd never seen or heard mention of anywhere other than Murray Peden's book is that the bottom half of the Fortress' side windscreens were painted black - the idea being that if an aircraft was caught by a searchlight, you could duck your head under the painted portion and try and preserve your night vision.

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Ouch.....you can be so cruel!!!!

Is it really bad - I swapped one some time ago for a couple of other kits.

No kit can ever be that bad. I've read awful reviews, but then that just makes me want to make something good from it.

After all, that Revell Fokker DVII didn't turn out too bad (must redo the wheel hubs as it lets the side down).

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If you're looking for codes/ serials of Fortress III's with 214 in early 1945. I have:

MR820 - P

HR789 - Q

HR802 - O

KH999 - M

KS107 - N

KJ109 - V

KJ112 - P

KJ112 was lost on the night of 21/22 March 1945 on a 'Jostle' operation to Hamburg.

Regards

Andy

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If you're looking for codes/ serials of Fortress III's with 214 in early 1945. I have:

MR820 - P

HR789 - Q

HR802 - O

KH999 - M

KS107 - N

KJ109 - V

KJ112 - P

KJ112 was lost on the night of 21/22 March 1945 on a 'Jostle' operation to Hamburg.

Regards

Andy

And 214 were at Oulton - which is not far up the road - there are some bits still visible, of the old airfield. There is also a small museum at Blickling Hall - and Bylaugh Hall - HQ of 100 Group is but a stones throw away. Let me know if you want any more info generally about 214 - Oulton - 100 Group (one or two members still around I think)

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PAR48093.jpg

Hey! Where can i get this!

MUG - many thanks for the pics.

Edgar - may take you up on the offer. Let me see what the C&D book throws up.

Andy - very helpful on the serials

Dylan T Rabbit - :fraidnot:

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Hey! Where can i get this!

MUG - many thanks for the pics.

Edgar - may take you up on the offer. Let me see what the C&D book throws up.

Andy - very helpful on the serials

Dylan T Rabbit - :fraidnot:

Neil - see above - produces them-have not seen this item in particular but what i have seen is rather good!

Let me know if you want any more pictures etc. I don't know if you are thinking about a diorama but Oulton still has some of The dispersal pans etc.

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Whadd'I do??

Ok folks, serious question here.

I think I may build this one next. I've always loved the B-17.

I'm torn between using this B-17F kit to do either the Memphis Belle (corny and predictable I know) or modify it to a B-17E RAF Coastal Command. Not sure yet.

There's a great conversion thread on ARC from an F to E if I wanted to do this.

One major question though.

This kit has raised panel lines and more rivets than a WW1 tank.

Did the B-17's have any overlapping panels (which would be raised lines) or should it be engraved (re scribing)?. I'm thinking of sanding all the rivets off anyway.

Is this (as Borat would say) going to cause huge pain in my arseholes?

Cheers,

Nick

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Whadd'I do??

Ok folks, serious question here.

I think I may build this one next. I've always loved the B-17.

I'm torn between using this B-17F kit to do either the Memphis Belle (corny and predictable I know) or modify it to a B-17E RAF Coastal Command. Not sure yet.

There's a great conversion thread on ARC from an F to E if I wanted to do this.

One major question though.

This kit has raised panel lines and more rivets than a WW1 tank.

Did the B-17's have any overlapping panels (which would be raised lines) or should it be engraved (re scribing)?. I'm thinking of sanding all the rivets off anyway.

Is this (as Borat would say) going to cause huge pain in my arseholes?

Cheers,

Nick

You have more than one??? Old Buckle will envy you?

I have a few pics of a B17 - they are fairly smooth - but do have some raised panels - around the areas which were removed for maintenance etc. of course. On the BMF ones you can clearly see the rivets - which appear to be fairly flush in the main - but my inclination would be to sand them down so they are just visible. I have some general pics + some interior shots and detail sketches.

How soon are you likely to start - I hope to go to Duxford eventually.

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I have the 1/72 scale Paragon set and though i have not used it yet, it is very good quality.

Dylan - just for your info and in case you want to go for a Bomber Command aircraft, 100 Group also operated some 14 B-17Fs (Fortress II) that were delivered direct from US 8th Air Force stocks. These aircraft initially acted as training platforms but were later modded to carry Aiborne Cigar (ABC) comms jammers and took part in ops.

For anyone interested, Martin Streetly's The Aircraft of 100 Group - A Historical Guide for the Modeller shows a line drawing of Fortress II BU-N s/n SR386 of 214 Squadron in the dark earth, dark green and night scheme, with dull red codes. H2S is not installed, the underfuselage turret is deleted, G type cheek gun mounts installed but no guns mounted, single ABC antenna upper mid fuselage, underfuselage Window dispensers, painted out side windows and monica antenna under the rear guns and on the tail fin.

Best regards

Rob

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Two line drawings from the fascinating "Confound and Destroy", the one of BU-M showing the lower portion of the windows in the cockpit blacked out as mentioned in Murray Peden's "One Thousand Shall Fall".

B171.jpg

B172.jpg

Hope these are of help.

Regards

Max

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