Name of a maneuver?

[Gary C]

Any of you gits ever hear of a "Viking Departure"......Thats what they came up with for Eagles doing MaxPerfTO. . It was clear the area immediately above the aerodrome, straight up and holeeeeeeeeeee shiite. as the guy in the back seat of D's and E's is going Oh Jeeeeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzuuuuzz!!!!, And the guy up front has a shiite eating grin on his face.

Seen it a few times! As much as I like the Lightning the Eagle is the most impressive for me. The Streak Eagle set all the time to climb records back in the 70's some of which still stand today. Brakes off to 30,000m (98,000+ ft) in 208 secs!!

Kinda like this

[Jennings Heilig]

There's no single name for the take off technique that you've described.

Yes there is. It's called "dumb". If the motor pukes, you're doing an involuntary belly landing whether you like it or not.

J

[upnorth]

I saw Canadian F-104s doing that kind of take off once or twice. Bloody insane, but bloody impressive.

[T-Tango]

Seen it a few times! As much as I like the Lightning the Eagle is the most impressive for me. The Streak Eagle set all the time to climb records back in the 70's some of which still stand today. Brakes off to 30,000m (98,000+ ft) in 208 secs!!

I saw an Eagle do that take off at Mildenhall one year, very, very impressive.

[keefr22]

Seen it a few times! As much as I like the Lightning the Eagle is the most impressive for me. The Streak Eagle set all the time to climb records back in the 70's some of which still stand today. Brakes off to 30,000m (98,000+ ft) in 208 secs!!

Yeh, & it was stripped out & lightened as much as possible. And it still only just beat a fully operational Frightning's time to climb!!!!

[J35 Draken]

Is it what the Belgian Magister display used to do?

Can't say I've ever heard that there's a name for that kind of take off, or that I had ever thought it was classed as a maneuver.

[Richard E]

Taking off thanks to the curvature of the Earth......?

[Alan P]

Seen it a few times! As much as I like the Lightning the Eagle is the most impressive for me. The Streak Eagle set all the time to climb records back in the 70's some of which still stand today. Brakes off to 30,000m (98,000+ ft) in 208 secs!!

Didn't the P-42 Flanker prototype spank all those records in 1986-88?

[Thom]

There is a name for it. It's a tactical take off. Designed to get you through the MANPAD layer as quickly as possible. You clean up, stay low until a set speed and then punch upwards at the speed of a thousand gazelles. Used commonly in Agf/Iraq to avoid the threat of all those hand launched SAMS.

[Roland Pulfrew]

If the motor pukes, you're doing an involuntary belly landing whether you like it or not.

If the motor pukes and you cannot maintain height it doesn't matter whether you used a normal departure or not, you are still going to the scene of the crash. At least with higher speed you have the ability to convert speed to height before you decide whether to bail or not.

I'm with Thom on this one, I don't think it has any particular name, apart from tactical departure. Used to use it the Nimrod but then we didn't bother to gain height until well out to sea. At St Mawgan (Rwy 31) you descended to low level after the cliff, at Kinloss it was low level until out into the Moray Firth. Great fun though.

Edited February 12, 2008 by Roland Pulfrew

[dswoofie]

Didn't the P-42 Flanker prototype spank all those records in 1986-88?

Yep, the P-42 took 27 records off the streak Eagle including time to height records for 3000, 6000, 9000, 12000 and 15000 metres, and a record height of 19335m (63435 ft), and a STOL record of a take off in less than 1540 ft...

That makes me sound so clever... but I was only reading this article in an old SAM this morning!!!

Karl.

Edited February 12, 2008 by dswoofie

[Robin]

Hi Thom, did you read the last post on Page one. Great minds think alike.

Robin.

[Fmk.6john]

Though I agree that within the RAF this maneuver is called a 'tactical take off' it was not 'designed' to get you through the MANPAD layer as described before.

It is used for this purpose now but when the maneuver first came about MANPADS were not on the scene, it was first used in the late fifties to demonstrate the power to weight ratio of new fighters, as the cold war grew it was important to have a good initial climb rate and this was the best demonstration.

John.

[John B (Sc)]

QUOTE (Mish @ Feb 9 2008, 06:03 PM)

I was doing some work in the tower at Binbrook many years ago when a Lightening pilot asked permission to "punch a hole in the clouds". The tower replied positively but added "those clouds are 5000 plus feet". The pilot came back with "60 seconds to impact!"

60 seconds - was that including start up ? At Lightning climb rates, 0-5,000 ft is around 20 seconds max !

The chandelle - I don't know why it is called that - though it's said to be a name given way back in air history by the French. Why would a climbing turn throygh 180 be aclled after a candle? Pass. That's what it is though.

Edited February 19, 2008 by John B (Sc)

[AnonymousA667]

I don't know why it is called that - though it's said to be a name given way back in air history by the French.

The maneuver was first perfected by French aviators during World War I, who described it as monter en chandelle, "to climb around a candle."

peebeep

[John B (Sc)]

Ah thanks Peebeep, ou peut etre merci monsieur.. That makes perfect sense - Very much in the French way of looking at life, I think.

I was speculating on it being like the smoke off a candle. Like several apparently simple maneouvres, it's harder to do really smoothly and accurately than it sounds (at least for someone of my stumbly level) Good co-ordination practice.

Chariots of Fire - hmmm... Rather fits with the Lightning discussion above

Edited February 19, 2008 by John B (Sc)