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  1. Personally I’m blaming @Bertie McBoatface for this what with all the talk of there not being as many ships as expected I felt so guilty that I decided to go build one myself. And seeing as how this will be my first Scratchbuilt boat it may all go horribly wrong… Now do bear in mind that this would also be eligible for the ‘not my comfort zone’ GB the ‘go large or go home’ GB as well as the salty sea dog but hopefully not the entropy GB Step 1 start with a scale plan. Step 2 using Amadine drawing software scale it to 1/72 print it off cut it out and stick it to a suitable piece of lumber. step 3 cut out the profiles with my scroll saw. The observant among you may motive that it’s now two bits of wood. My scroll saw can only cut 50mm wide wood so I had to cut the block in two then saw each half then glue them back together. I’ve roughly sanded the blocks with my detail sander. I’ll let it dry overnight then continue sanding/ carving to the correct profile. Still have to figure out what way I’ll fabricate the hull. I may well end up planking over the form either with balsa or plastic sheet.
  2. Right. So this is my first proper build thread. I started this kit in October, but never really got around to taking WIP photos before some of the basic structures were in place, so we begin this thread as they say "in medias res". After having a lot of fun with Academy's Warspite, I figured I'd have a go at Trumpeter's Hood. It is a very interesting, but also challenging subject as no kits are 100% correct. I therefore set my self the challenge to build a kit that would address some of the most glaring omissions on the original model, but I also wanted to build a visually interesting model, so some details would be left intentionally wrong, such as boats not being covered with canvas, and a few other odds and ends. For reference I decided to use the 1/200 Pontos upgrade set, as I believe this is supposed to be the most accurate set on the market, and Pontos provide many excellent quality pictures on their website. The parts I am using are so far: Trumpeter 1/350 Hood Lionroar PE set (New turrets and upgrades for the superstructure, among other things) Eduard Photoetch (Excellent detail, and also contains the proper framework for the catapult supports on X-turret) Wood deck from Pontos 4" guns and bridge equipment sets from North Star Models Brass masts and Pom Pom barrels from Master models 3d printed boats from Micro Master However this has turned out to be a somewhat frustrating build with lots of things not going quite according to plan. First of all the fit of the upper and lower hull weren't great. After some sanding and filling I got a reasonably smooth seam. For a bit of extra detailing I decided to try and simulate the layered hull plating on the lower hull using the masking tape and spray paint technique. Not overly succesfully though, as some flaking occured when removing the masking tape. I contemplated sanding everything down again, but opted against it, as I wasn't sure I could get the results I wanted. Instead I decided to try and mask the imperfections during painting and pass it off as weathering. Another challenge arose from the Lionroar upgrades for the superstructure. Unfortunately the photoetch bulkheads aren't that great a fit, which caused some weird issues when adding the boat deck on top. Some filling and bending resolved most of them, but not all solutions were particularly elegant. As mentioned I have been using both Lionroar and Eduard photoetch. The Lioroar set is a bit crude in places and the Eduard set have some estremely fine details, which are made from steel rather than brass for enhanced durability. However I have found the railings to be a real pain to work with. They are better scaled than the Lionroar set, but they bend extremely easily when you accidentally touch them and have proven very tricky to bend back into shape. The result is railing that looks rather wobbly in places. Terribly frustrating! The final challenge so far has been with regards to the main hull color. I mainly use Vallejo acrylic, where Mirage Blue is supposed to be fairly close to the correct dark blueish grey she wore in 1941. After a few tests i found that this color looked too dark on the model to my eye. I wanted something lighter, and slightly less blue, that would give me better contrasts once shading and weathering had been applied and really bring out details. However I have had a hard time finding a color that looked right to my eye. The main issue is that this is a large monochrome model, and if you do not add some color variation it just ends up looking rather dull on the shelf (camo working a bit too well I suppose). In the end I have been mixing Intermediate Blue and Light Grey in various shades and highlights usind an airbrush. The result looks promising, but it is going to be a real challenge to touch up any painting mistakes later on. The real fun with this kit has been the scratch building and trying to correct some of the errrors on the kit. After studying the 1/200 Pontos upgrade set I decided to leave the main hull mostly as it is and instead focus on the superstructure. the bridge and conning tower was rebuilt many times during the Hood's long service, and the result is a real mess of weirdly placed platforms, gangways and splinter shields. I omitted some splinter shields, as those would make the model almost impossible to paint and instead tried to get some overall shapes closer to the original. Other issues would require surgery on a level I wasn't confident I could pull off, without destroying the bridge completely, so I left those as they were. The aft superstructure and pom pom platform saw some significant changes as well. I filled in all the windows, as these were usually covered with canvas, and the Pontos set actually have portholes here instead. I am not sure this is 100% correct, but it looks better than the original. The Pom-Pom platform was lalso owered, which also looks more balanced in my opinion. Finally the masts were replaced with brass, which I think looks a lot better. First coat of paint on the hull, showing the failed attempt at hull plating, and some weathering experiments to cover up the worst mistakes. A bit of touching up and some oil colors will hopefully improve things somewhat...
  3. I rarely post on this site, but a mate suggested 3 of my recent 1/700 builds from 2022 might be worth posting, so here goes........ They are all 1/700 Trumpeter, and are the USS New York (BB-34), USS West Virginia (BB-48), and USS Alaska (CB-1) in their 1944/45 glory. I won't relate in any great detail here the ship histories, as I think we can all google search and /or check wiki and other sites for info on the individual ships and classes), but I will say that I enjoyed building the old WW1 veteran USS New York (sister ship of the probably more famous USS Texas) in it's late WW2 configuration with a large number of small calibre AA guns and amazing Measure 31a Design 8B camo scheme. This old BB is quite small compared to the more modern WW2 US BBs and is dwarfed by the Iowa Class. I have watched many youtube videos on the preserved sister ship USS Texas and found this a valuable resource and most of the videos were most informative and entertaining. The multi part (7 from memory) aircraft catapult on the middle turret gave me a small amount of grief as I do not own a bending tool, so ended up using fingers, a metal ruler and tweezers to make the multiple folds. The cranes also took a bit of work but look great in the end. The USS West Virginia was a rebuilt Pearl Harbour veteran (sank in shallow water and rebuilt) and a modernised Colorado Class which was back in service at the back end of the Pacific War and I finished her in Measure 32 7D scheme. Paints I used were Tamiya acrylic Nato Black XF-69 for the dull black, and the following from Life Colour US Navy WW2 acrylic sets 1 and 2 ..... 5-L light grey, 5-O Ocean Grey, and 20-B Deck Blue. The camo scheme was time consuming to paint and some masking was required as expected. Not too many other dramas experienced aside from the 'not great' instructions. The USS Alaska ends up being a surprisingly large ship in comparison to the 2 old BBs, and opinion seems to be split 50/50 on whether they are considered Battlecruisers or Large Cruisers (US Navy designation). My own thoughts are that Alaska and her 2 completed sisters shipped larger calibre main batteries than the Kriegsmarine Scharnhorst and Gneisenau and they WERE classed as Battlecruisers , and generally heavy cruisers had 8 inch guns during WW2, so they are Battlecruisers to me! They are also far larger than any other WW2 heavy cruiser at around 30,000 tonnes displacement and 808 feet in length. I finished her in Measure 32 7C with 5-L light grey and dull black camo and 20-B decks. All 3 ship kits are of fairly recent vintage and contain a good number of sprues with many tiny pieces (to be expected in 1/700!) - many of which ended up in my spares box, a smallish PE sheet, the usual instructions from Trumpeter which can be more than a little confusing at times if not studied well. I used mostly acrylic paints on all 3 ships and they were exclusively brush painted. My 30 plus year old basic Badger airbrush is in almost mint condition in one of my hobby desk drawers! I replaced the kit supplied SK-1 and SK-2 'solid' plastic radar dish and aerials from Flyhawk PE set FH700040. I am still working on the catapult floatplanes. I used 3 x magnification glasses when building and painting, but once high res pics are taken with phonecam, small blemishes become evident and I have had a fair amount of touch ups to do. Not a great situation when one is on the wrong side of 50 and the eyesight is not wonderful anymore. The fingers are still still steady enough though, which is one positive. No PE handrailings sorry - if I built 1/350 I would though. I'm considering building some Flyhawk RN WW2 1/700 cruisers next...with some trepidation! Posting images of these 3 USN ships (and an RN ring-in in one pic!) from my Flickr account now............
  4. One Japanese ship modeler Dai Sasahara 笹原大 builds awesome and great models in 1/700 scale. His works pushes the limits of the possible This is real nanotechnology in modeling! Everyone who makes models on a scale of 1/700 or 1/350 should get acquainted with his work and learn for yourself a lot of new and useful. And inspire yourself to new projects He wrote this books And I want to share and show his brilliant models for all of you Battleship Mutsu 1933 1/700 P.S. for moderators - If this topic is in wrong subforum, you can move them to the correct subforum.
  5. Hello everyone.. I just had an idea for a group build. We have all had relatives that served in the military or in civilian service, or served ourselves. Im proposing a group build celebrating those relatives and family histories or your history. I recently built a tank (trainers group build) that my grandfather trained in. I had an uncle that was in both the RN and US Navy in WW2 and Korea. So long story short is if you have a Familial connection to the equipment you wish to model, including being a passenger in some cases. Maybe they flew on H.P.Hamdens. Maybe they served on H.M.S. Repulse. Or drove a Firefly in N.E. Europe. We should celebrate there service. Maybe they were Rescued by S.A.R. Or flown home on a Lancaster or B-17 after being liberated from a POW camp. Maybe it was a slow boat from India or Burma at the end of the war ? I wont discourage civilian types as well. If you had a great uncle that shoveled coal for a British railway. Or was a crewman in the Merchant marine. Maybe they are a hostess or steward on British Airways ? Maybe they are a fireman or law enforcement ? We should celebrate them all as well. So if you're interested please let me know ? 1. Corsairfoxfouruncle 2. Helios16v 3. Ted 4. Zebra 5. Valkyrie 6. Jb65rams 7. Ray S 8. bigfoot 9. vppelt68 10. 825 11. JohnT 12. 12b. 14. 15. 16. Dennis
  6. Hi all I guess this is sort of an introductory post to these boards besides the one in the new members section. Anyway: here are a few images of current projects. Most very close to being finished. I figure I'd wait with proper posts on the Ready for Inspection board untill they are completely done and proper photos have been taken. First up: The model that got me back into the hobby after more than 20 years. I came across a cheap 1/350 Missouri at a second hand store . I always wanted one of those big models as a child and at £3 it was too good to pass on. I upgraded the model with Eduard photoetch and a Pontos deck. Lits of firsts, like using an airbrush and oils for weathering, and obvious mistakes were made. But all in all a fun learning process! HMS Anchusa with the WEM upgrade kit. I think I might have overdone the weathering slightly on this model, but I wanted it to look really beaten up as I don't imagine these humble ships saw as much maintanence as the larger warships in the fleet. The Mountbatten Pink was an interesting challenge. The original color made the model very dark, so in the end I decided to lighten it with a neutral grey with just a hint of pinkish basecolor, to represent the sun's bleaching effect on red colors in particular. (Oh and yes: Not sure about that anti fouling paint colorc on the lower hull: I just thought it'd be nice to do something different than red for a change. The radar lantern is also incorrect. It is not firmly attached. I just left it there for the photoshoot, because I think it looks cool. ) My take on Trumpeter's HMS Zulu, using WEM photoetch, and upgraded main armanent from North Star Models and Micro Master on Shapeways. I also replaced the kit's wrong boats with 3d print and changed the main masts to brass for increased stability. A WIP of the Grand Old Lady Warspite with Pontos upgrades Unfortunately I have yet to get sufficient lightig conditions to shoot a good 3/4 view of the larger ship models. AFV Club Type VIIC Uboat with a couple of North Star crewmen. A lovely little kit, although in retrospect the slack on the photo etch cables doesn't look quite right to me...and maybe I should have dusted the model before photographing Oh well. Eboat from the Prinz Eugen kit, using WEM detail. Only upon arrival did I realize that the WEM set isn't really meant for this particular model and that the railings are too short, so I had to experiment a bit. I think a couple of crewmen like on the Uboat would finish it of nicely though.
  7. The Belfast Telegraph on-line has this short aerial film on its site The film is dated 12/31/1935 As it goes over Harland & Wolff you can see some ships in the H & W wet-dock - on the right, at 0:40 to about 0:50. One looks like an aircraft carrier under construction maybe Then from about 2:21 to about 2:58 as the aeroplane heads towards part of Belfast harbour we see, at first in the centre and at a distance, then centre and then to the right another aircraft carrier. Is it the same one? perhaps, perhaps not - its not where H & W did final fitting out of ships, it lies in the deep water section of Belfast Harbour proper, H & W are off further to the right. https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/archive/incredible-aerial-footage-of-belfast-in-1930s-can-you-spot-your-street-31218710.html PS. Just before 0:40 you can see a black mass on the left, disappearing into the bottom left corner. These were the iron work gantries where Olympic, Titanic and Britannic were built. They were only demolished in about 1972/73 ish
  8. A second build thread as I like to switch between projects every now and then. This one I suspect is going to take a while though. The Airfix 1/600 HMS Belfast was the first ship model I ever built so returning to the beautiful Royal Navy light cruisers is a bit nostalgic. After seeing Steven Allen and Andrewas wonderful takes on these ships I wanted to try my hands on these myself. The (relatively) cheap and easy route would be to simply build Trumpeters Belfast kit. But comparing the Belfast to the Fiji and Sheffield, I always felt that the lines on the Belfast wasn't as sleek as the other ships. Thus I recently picked up the Iron Shipwirghts kit. In many ways this will be new territory for me: It is my first resin ship kit and the first kit from Iron Shipwrights. It is also a fairly old and slightly simplified, compared to the highly detailed CAD designed resin kits being created these days. With this in mind I knew from the beginning that this would be a lot more work than a normal injection moulded kit, and that it would involve a lot of scratch building and use of aftermarket parts. Upon arrival I was a bit disappointed by the casting quality though. Some critical parts were completely useless and beyond repair, while others, like the ship props and the Walrus seaplane were missing completely. I wasn't sure if this was a packing error or if the Ebay seller wasn't being completely honest. Either way, I decided to contact Jon from Iron Shipwrights and he has kindly offered to replace the missing parts free of charge. Their casting may not always be perfect, but the customer service certainly is! Still: When working with resin a lot of filling and sanding is probably unavoidable! I did some january sales shopping and this week my purchases began to arrive. The shopping list look like this: WEM HMS Sheffield PE set Master Oerlikon mounts Master Brass masts and yardarms North Star Models 4" guns North Star Models winches North Star Models Searchlights North Star Models HACS North Star Models portholes North Star Models quad Pompoms. 6" guns, some boats and possibly torpedo launchers will probably be 3d print, though I am still unsure exactly what route to go with these. Other than that I will be using a bunch of spare parts from my previous Royal Navy builds. Some critical parts are still missing though, like the radar lantern (inclding platform supports), main battery directors and replacement bollards and fairleads. It seems a bit excessive to purchase the Belfast kit and WEM upgrade set (which definitely contain suitable replacements), but I am hoping that over time it might be possible to obtain some of these things from people who might have spares from their own Belfast builds.
  9. Greetings everybody! I've been visiting the site regularly for the past year, gathering inspiration from some of the amazing models here, but finally I got around to actually signing up! So a few words of introduction: I'm 35 years old and like many others I started the hobby as a child at around 7 years old I think. My first kit was the Airfix 1/600 Belfast. Later I started collecting aircraft, but as a teenager the hobby lost it's grip and was replaced with wargames miniatures instead. I've been collecting and painting these on/off ever since, but a few years ago I came across the Tamiya 1/350 scale Missouri as a bargain in a second hand store. I'd always wanted one of those large ship kits, and wanted to try my hand at something different than wargames stuff, so I decided to have a go at ship modelling again and quickly got addicted! Looking forward to the continued inspiration from so many talented modellers. Hopefully I will be able to contribute with something too
  10. Trumpeter have some great new kits coming out this coming September. For full details, please see our newsletter.
  11. There's a great selection of new Trumpeter items covering various subjects coming out this June/July, check them out below and see our amazing range of Trumpeter Model Kits on our Website!
  12. The first delivery of Trumpeter's 1/200 scale HMS Hood model kit is due in this week! For full details, please see our newsletter.
  13. We've got a nice little selection of new Italeri kits in the ship, aircraft, military and truck categories which will be available this coming June. This wave includes the exciting new Operation Cobra Battle Set! For full details, please see our newsletter.
  14. There's a massive list of great new Trumpeter brand kits available to order or preorder right now. For full details, please see our newsletter.
  15. In case those of you in the UK haven't heard yet, I have started an online shop based in the UK for small scale ship modellers. Currently in stock are resin kits and accessories from Combrig, Samek, AJM, Orange Hobby, L'Arsenal, Niko and North Star, with etch from Lion Roar, Flyhawk and my own brand Starling Models. Other accessories in stock include 3d Modelparts, Master Barrel and Uschi van der Rosten's excellent rigging thread. Also in stock are kits from Flyhawk, I will be importing all of their new releases this year, all at very competitive prices. In time I hope to release some kits, some of these will be those formerly released under the Fine Waterline label with some upgrades. It is still very early days so in time I will hopefully be adding to the list of brands in stock but for those of you in the UK who are finding it difficult to get those much needed kits and accessories, stop by and have a look. http://www.starling-models.co.uk Mike
  16. The latest plastic model kit releases from Revell are due in this week. This release includes the long awaited 1/144 Airbus A320 Etihad Airways and 1/48 Stearman PT-17 Kaydet, as well as the 1/144 German LSM Eidesche Class. For full details, please see our newsletter.
  17. We've got some great new Trumpeter kits available to order now, with highly detailed items from the Trumpeter Aircraft, Military and Ships categories. This month we have the 1/72 MiG-29C Fulcrum (Izdeliye 9.13), 1/35 Russian Object 199 'Ramka' BMPT, a 1/700 Scale USS Tennessee BB-43 1941 and more! For full details, please see our newsletter.
  18. Academy have a great selection of new releases available to order now through our online store. This release includes ships, aircraft and military vehicles. Of particular note is the 1/700 RMS Titanic with LED Lighting Set and the 1/35 Israeli Magach 7C Gimel. For full details, please see our newsletter.
  19. There is whole host of new plastic model kits from Trumpeter available to order now; including aircraft, military vehicles and ships. Of particular note is the new 1/16 US Oshkosh M-ATV MRAP, the first modern subject in Trumpeter's 1/16 scale kits range. For full details, please see our newsletter.
  20. It's a very soggy day in Aberdeenshire today and therefore one purpose made for model making indoors! It has taken me far too long to get around to having a more formalised presence here on Britmodeller and hope to share some of what we're doing both in the UK and internationally. 13 months ago I read on Facebook that White Ensign Models were to cease trading. This came as a shock and huge disappointment. I've been making models since I was a child with both my father and grandfather but had only fairly recently got back in to it properly after a break where starting careers and family got in the way. I'm quite clear on what happened after that Facebook announcement but how it all happened is a bit of a mystery and somehow I ended up owning my favourite paint brand. We started the new company immediately but it took us some time set up properly. I dislike chaos and wanted to do things properly. Colourcoats was relaunched at the Scottish Nationals model show in Perth in April 2015, the first commercial order was dispatch to the USA shortly after and our shiny new webstore opened for UK Mainland customers in June. I mostly model aeroplanes and ships myself, and soon after getting Colourcoats up and running again, I realised I could no longer obtain most of my favourite naval modelling products in particular, so we have thus far reinvested everything we've taken into improving that situation in the UK, and now offer White Ensign Models again (now imported from California), Pontos Models and new-start Infini Model both from South Korea. More is on the way this quarter. We're just rolling out colour boxsets at the moment which are proving popular already, happily. The Colourcoats paint range currently comprises: Colourcoats Sea. Modern Naval The Great War United States Navy Imperial Japanese Navy Royal Navy Kriegsmarine (German navy) Regia Marina (Italian navy) Colourcoats Land. Australian Army Imperial Japanese Army Army for Defence for Israel United States Army Red Army (Soviet) British Army Wehrmacht (German army) Regia Esercito (Italian army) Colourcoats Air. The Great War Armee de l'Air (French air force) US Army Air Corps / US Air Force / US Navy Imperial Japanese Army and Navy Royal Air Force / Fleet Air Arm Luftwaffe (German air force) Royal Australian Air Force Regia Aeronautica (Italian air force) Royal Netherlands Air Force
  21. In our sale we've got up to a whopping 49% off these fantastic naval model kits from Revell and Italeri right now! These great plastic model kits include the wonderfully detailed 1/132 USS Bon Homme Richard (1766). Two German U-Boats: A 1/72 German Type VIIC Submarine and a 1/72 US Navy Skipjack Class Submarine. Also on offer we have the very popular 1/35 British Vosper MTB 74 St Nazaire Raid Kit! Check them out below and watch out for more great offers and new releases from Wonderland Models! For full details, please see our newsletter here.
  22. Trumpeter have announced the release of their 1/200 scale HMS Rodney plastic model kit; the latest addition of the Trumpeter 1/200 ships range. This kit of the HMS Rodney, sister ships to the HMS Nelson already released by Trumpeter, is due for release in December. For full details, please see our newsletter.
  23. Ok while having a long boring nightshift I have come up with an idea for a GB which could include almost everyone! A South Latin American GB Ok after lots of requests by everyone.....well Steve anyway, I had a think about this and decided to open it up to the rest of Latin America. This GB will now cover anything and everything South American "of the border", as long as it was used there or built there it’s ok. There should be a bit of something for everybody here with all forms of transport covered, both military and civilian, even the automotive crowd with Dakar bikes/cars/trucks So countries eligible; Argentina Bolivia Brazil Chile Colombia Costa Rica Cuba Dominican Republic Ecuador El Salvador Gaudeloupe Guatemala Guyana Haiti Honduras Mexico Nicaragua Panama Paraguay Peru Puerto Rico Suriname Uruguay Venezuela Plus French Guiana Falkland Islands Martinique ​Saint Barthelemy Saint Martin The are some amazing and interesting subjects available which you wouldn't normally see or think about.....so what do you think? A Lista (the list) 1, trickyrich - host 2, Threadbear 3, MAD STEVE 4, Arniec 5, wyverns4 - co-host 6, Max Headroom 7, Jörgen Stendahl 8, nimrod54 9, Moggy 10, Mish 11, CliffB 12, Col 13, hgbn 14, feoffee2 15, Radleigh 16, Old Man 17, Centollaman 18, somtec 19, modelling minion 20, SleeperService
  24. Hello! After some twenty years managing L'Arsenal, it is now time to retire and give place to a young and enthusiastic team ! My friends Mélaine and Philippe Perrotin will continue the job, and will offer to modelers the same level of service and quality that one can expect from L'Arsenal A new website with the same address will replace the old one on 21 February, new address and phone numbers will be indicated at this moment. But the old team will remain in place to design models and accessories! (We were too sad to leave you, ha, ha !) The output of new kits will raise significantly as it was no more possible to design, produce, sell, do the paperwork and workshop cleaning with only two persons ! L'Arsenal moves from the beautiful shores of Normandie to another wonderful place, the harbour of La Rochelle, so the maritime adventure continues ! Best regards from Normandie, Jacques Druel Jacques, Philippe and Mélaine
  25. While trying to pass the time on shift I just happened to think about another possible group build, which is bound to have some interesting and very colourful subject matter, an Italian Air force Group Build. The Italians have produced some wonderful and very colourful aircraft over the years, from the early flying boats of WW I and the 20s, the interesting and varied aircraft of WW II. Plus the modern stuff is well catered for as well. There are a good range of Italian aircraft and aircraft operated by the Italian air force so subject matter should be too hard to find. Though if numbers dictate it could be expanded to all military equipment, civilian, or only to WW I to WW II aircraft, just depends on number and interest. Even have something already in mind, have a Flashback (Classic Airframes) 1/48th Savoia Marchetti SM.79 Im just dying to build. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ok Ive started a list so we can get an idea whos interested and the numbers so far. Here we go; 1/ trickyrich (me guess Ill be the host with the most!) 2/ Giorgio N co-host 3/ Lex77 4/ Enzo Matrix 5/ Paul J 6/ John W 7/ usetherudders 8/ Alpha Delta 210 9/ PaulR 10/ Radleigh 11/ Wez 12/ Paolo6691 13/ Jockney 14/ wellzy 15/ vppelt68 16/ Arniec 17/ SimonR 18/ Sgt. Squarehead 19/ Jinxman 20/ Prenton 21/ CliffB 22/ Tornado 23/ Misterfriend 24/ paganpete 25/ nimrod54 26/ wyverns4 27/ Mottlemaster 28/ Doug Rogers 29/ bobster 30/ swat11 This could....will be lots of fun so try and drag a few more bodies, preferably alive, a long for the fun. Fingers and toes crossed this gets up!
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