richw_82

Hi all, Various things happened in 2015 which took me away from it (including the birth of my son) and there was then a period of issues within the group which nearly scuppered the whole thing. However, for the last 18 months I've been back at it, and with a few dedicated (mad?) others we're slowly hauling things back on track. I'll try and get something more comprehensive together in the next day or so which gives info of what we've been up to. I'll also go over some of my old posts and try and find a fix for my images; they got messed up when there was a Facebook update which killed off all the links. Kind regards, Rich

Hi guys. I rather unfairly picked out every fault I could find, partly out of anger at their attitude and partly as I didn't feel they had paid enough attention to the subject. The aircraft measured up were WL795 (as James has mentioned) which they only had limited access to due to her structural issues at the time, and the MR3, WR974 at Gatwick which was being dismantled at the time for transport to Bruntingthorpe. Through my communications with all parties - I know for a fact Revell weren't aware of the significant differences between the MR2 and MR3 other than the glaringly obvious. It was clear at the outset they were going to try and make multiple marks from the one kit - and fair play. It makes sense economically, and its more fun for the modeller to get multiple variants. Airfix did a good job with the drawings and access they had, but were obviously looking at doing a similar thing, which is why the eagle eyed will have noticed that there was already a lot of AEW parts on the sprues. As a result you basically get a choice of building WR963 in 'hybrid' form or a really good MR2 Phase III. There wasn't time to go digging through the archive for the early interior fit and the different panel lines and windows would have required more cost in moulds and production. The Airfix kit has its own errors in places, such as the mainwheel halves being symmetrical, the trailing aerial missing, and a few lumps and bumps absent. James' kitbash using both kits to get a super accurate result is probably the best I have seen so far, and I'm still looking forward to building both myself when I get chance they're waiting on my shelf, and I'm eagerly awaiting Airfix's AEW2 to join them. Anyhow; I'm not about to rake it all over again, I said plenty at the time, some of it I regret, some of it I stand by. If anyone wants to have a check of the kit against the real thing, pm me and you're welcome to Coventry and crawl over every inch of WR963. Kind regards, Rich

Hi guys, I recently had this given me by a friend. Anything in particular anyone wants to see (assuming its covered)? Some nice looking models appearing on the forum, has anyone completed a "Zebebee" yet? Kind regards, Rich

Hi all. Just a quick drop in by me to remind you all about the 9th July approaching, whch marks 25 years since WR963 touched down at Coventry and entered preservation. She's come a long way, and a short distance in that time. Usually you can find her providing shade for visitors and occasionally killing the grass in patches when the Griffons are run up just across from Hangar 7, Coventry. Then occasionally she takes a stroll. Its only been once or twice a year so far, but the bar is being pushed. The 9th July will see another taxy run, and there'll be more this coming year once this event is past. The intent is to try an bring her serviceability up to be capable and reliable enough to taxy once a month, something the team is pushing hard to achieve. I got lucky last year - I was Engineer for the taxy run in the Vulcan day. ONce everything was behaving I took a chance and got these two shots from the window, but the memory will last forever. A couple of chaps on the recent taxy run in April got even better footage... a chance that others can take advantage of too incoming months! One thing that struck me when I visited recently was that although I've removed myself from duties with SPT; I still want to see WR963 fly and I still believe it can happen. I want to see this taxy past, become a turn onto a runway and off into the blue yonder. Hear the Griffon growl and watch '963 become a distant speck in the distance. SPT have got a hell of a long way, and managed to secure funding for the NDT work, then when everything seemed to be a done deal they then had a new problem in having to find the money to rent hangar space after our long time friends at Air Atlantique decided to start ceasing activities. So far without resorting to endless chain e-mails or campaigns, they've already got over half way. Please support the SPT, as visitors are still welcome as ever. Go and watch a ground run up, or visit. Book a taxy ride when the spaces become available. Or, if you have a spare minute online and fancy donating to help go here: http://www.avroshackleton.co.uk/fundraising.html A Shackleton will fly again, and your help would make it happen that bit faster. Regards, Rich

They're all in the AP that I can't find!! Basically all vents on the fuselage have a small plug made of silver rubberised fabric with a foam centre and a red remove before flight tag. The two heaters on the lower fuselage have a fabric cover that goes over the mouth of each of them, and there's two remove before flight tags that have small rubber pins to plug into pressure points in the fuselage just below where "Royal Air Force" is written - these two stay attached by a press stud thats fixed to the fuselage. I'll try and get what I can from the MR2 manual and post it up as most of the main covers are identical.

Undercarriage locks - Large red telescopic items that you can see above each leg, going to the knuckle joint. The tailwheel lock is a small red collar that fits around the top of the hydraulic ram.

Thats always one of my bugbears when people trot out the old line "100,000 rivets etc". Yes, there's tons of rivets. But they're a standard size found in many other contemporary aircraft. They don't really stand out any more unless you paint your Shackleton white and it gets dirty.. .. Oh. Whoops.

I asked the SPT to check out the boxed brand new flap sections in their store; they are Dark Sea Grey. WR963's are also the same colour; though faded! John B; the deicing pumps are in the rear of each inboard nacelle and are about the size of an old typewriter. There's about 16 connections come off each pump to ensure an even spread to several points in each deicing strip.

I got pointed at a nice gallery set of photos of AEW2 in service. http://www.air-azur.com/thumbnails.php?album=87 Enjoy!

Deicers are wood strips on the leading edges of the mainplane, and metal strips on the horizontal tailplane. They get missed on most models as they're right on the joints.

The Airfix one was measured off a spare we had. I've just had a chuckle as they've even moulded in the bolts, and I'd not noticed! Here's some reference photos. This shows the size of it against a turret cupola.

I can for the MR2 (which is the photo I posted); I'm not sure I can the AEW2 as I've not been able to find the manual after my house move... I'll start a separate thread for MR2 and MR3 when I get a spare moment over the weekend.

There's no gunners bulkhead/door on the MR2, so nothing there to carry over to the AEW2. The bulkhead was an addition on the MR3. This can be confirmed by the diagrams for layouts of equipment shown in the manuals for the aircraft. The AEW2 had the gunnery and bombing equipment stripped and oxygen crates positioned where Boulton Paul cannon cradle assembly (main part of the turret) mounted. Looking at kit there's a few parts making an appearance which shouldn't in the beam area for an AEW2 - ASV scanner jacks and the Blue Silk radar all of which can be seen if you have the crew door opened.

Its a removable film on WL790's windows, but the UV rays had already turned most of them white prior to that. The covering of the windows also keeps down the interior temperatures so it won't wreck the cabin.

Rear anticollision light. On the centre line, just aft of the fuselage joint.

Window under the tail. UHF aerials out on the wings. Upper and lower are in the same location.

Here's the canopy. DF loop info on the way, I just have to find it. Two house moves inside six months means I'm a bit disorganised!

Just to add to James' points then put some more reference material up. The small windows under the tail on the MR2/AEW2 - on the starboard side it is a true window, on the port it is an access point for the first aid box, so is lowere down and further forwards as its at floor level in the fuselage. Okay, the wing panels. This is the reference, it covers all marks of Shackleton, 1 - 4 and AEW. This is how the kit is laid out. This is how it should be.

At the end of the day both kits are now out so the points on accuracy of research are irrelevant - we now get to work with whats out there. I'm happy to post scans from the manuals I have, some of the drawings (if I can scale them down far enough), and as many photos as the forum can handle. What do you want to know or see? I'll do my best to help.

Only one did, the prototype AEW2 - WL745. It flew in its old 205 Sqn colours in AEW2 configuration. The others never did; being flown straight from conversion at Bitteswell to Kemble in primer, and then in the colours we know so well up to Kinloss to join 8 Sqn.

There's also an incorrect window position on the Revell kit - there's no window in the fuselage in front of the leading edge of the starboard side of the horizontal tailplane, the window is present only in the MR3 when the Elsan switched sides in the fuselage.. There is however a very small window under the starboard horizontal tail which gives a little bit of light when you're crawling over the tailwheel bay. The large long window positioned just forward of the crew door isn't a window, its a batch of four large flare dischargers with fabric tape over them. The perspex window I've only ever seen on a few (not all!) preserved MR3's instead of constantly having to replace rotting fabric tapes.

Starting from the top... The escape panel in the cockpit above and between the pilots, and marked out by a neat little yellow decal on the SMW display model, isn't there on the AEW2 or MR2. To get out through that window you'd not only have to smash the perspex panel (not a blank panel as on the model - I can ony assume the aircraft researched had a repair patch. WR963 has a similar patch only covering half the panel.) you'd also have to smash your way through the overhead instrument panel holding magneto switches, radio and autopilot. Pretty pointless as each panel above each pilot seat is a jettisonable panel. Above the Flight engineers station is a hole, which is where the flare pistol muzzle fits. Also used in service in hot climes as an extra air vent, or somethimes for popping a flag out of. The DF loop is the wrong size and shape, it shouldn't be square or black, its oval and a brown resin colour. Its stated in the manual for the aircraft that it should be unpainted. Just in front of the DF loop, and offset to the port side is one of the small triangular IFF aerials The two white blade aerials you point out are the V/UHF system, there's two more underneath the aircraft, but smaller. Anticollision light you've already mentioned, and the little fitting at the side of the Orange Harvest mast (which is a probe with a cowl round it. Can't remember offhand what for...) Further back on the port side, near the roof, is a rearward facing scoop (seen in the picture above to the right of the escape hatch) this is the exit for cooling air from the overhead equipment cabinets. Further back from that is the rear escape hatch, which has no window in it, and its offset to the port side.

They're actually Dragonair combustion heaters for keeping the cabin and bomb bay heated. On the early MR2 there was also one more in the nose which sometimes shows in pictures as a dirty smear along the starboard side of the nose. Cooling the radios, radar and sonics was by a ram air intake that fed into a ventilation system in the overhead cabinets on the port side.

It seems fairly close overall. I've stated more than a few times that I don't think some of it is as accurate as it could have been, but until I get one I'm holding off on doing a side by side build with the Airfix kit against the manufacturers drawings.

Basically the skinning and panel markings are incorrect top and bottom. The reason is that the fuel tank access on the MR1/MR2/AEW2 was from below, so between the spars the top surface is fairly uninterrupted being three large skin panels. On the MR3, there was a one piece skin with a large access panel in it almost the size of the tank. Underneath, on the taildragger aircraft you have a large access panel to get to the fuel tank, with two circular panels to get to the drains and the booster pump - the MR3 is almost the opposite. On the MR2/AEW2 taildragger Shack you're looking for inboard wing skinning almost identical to that of Lincoln and Lancaster. The MR3 is more akin to Argosy - its that different the design got a new type number (Avro Type 716) and the wing got its own again (Avro Type 733) With some careful rescribing it'll be fine; but its just a shame that with the level of fine detail it wasn't picked up during their research.