sloegin57

Or !!!..........you could add a bit of detail to the model to distract your audience !!:- Mid Air over the Med in '67. Malta Comm Flight found the other pilot paddling around in his dinghy but we couldn't rescue him 'cos Vallettas had a bit of bother landing on water. And anyway - it's wet. I still prefer intake blanks DR

1. Hunter intakes were either painted aluminium or left natural metal up until the early 80's, then they were painted with a white rubberised material (reasons unknown). The external camouflage colour extended into the intake up to the boundary layer bleed duct on the inner part of the intake on both. 2. Fit intake blanks to your model and let everybody assume that you got it right - works for me !!. DR

That's why mine are still in their boxes under the bed in the spare room !!. I'll be watching this with interest - though not yet tempted !! DR

Just passing through Ian - thought that this may help. Seat pins on C's, D's, E's and RF's that I was involved with many moons ago came in a red painted box with "do not lose" streamers attached. Straight from the Crew Chiefs Handbook:- DR

Very very nice John. I assume that it's seventy-tooth. Made a note re Halfords Fluorescent Orange. Looks spot on for what I need. Dennis

Looking through what references I have on the early Comets, it appears that the tailplanes on BOAC, Canadian Pacific, UAT, Air France and the Royal Canadian Air Force aircraft were bare or polished metal top and bottom. DR

Spot on Dave, that photo gave me a surprise when I picked mine up in the shop earlier this year. A lot of useful information in that book. Needs more publicity DR

Took the words right out of my mouth - and so perfectly presented. Lovely, simply lovely. Nice One Cliff. DR

Hi Julien, Yer a good old boy Julien. Just caught up with this. Glad somebody else from the SIG is doing one. Mines looking a bit "well-travelled" now so looks like it will need a "refurb" to go next to yours. Re camera ports. I cut glazing from a fairly thick sheet of perspex (approx 2mm) to the shape of the ports (very slight oversize) and after the detail had bin dealt with, "squeezed" the glazing in place with judicous application of a hefty vice. The resin can take it - believe me . Any bits that had the temerity to protrude after that were wet sanded flush and polished !! Worked better than I thought - even you didn't question why there were no glue marks around the ports a couple of years ago - !! Bye the bye - have you done a dry run on fitting the new mainplane centre section to the fuselage yet Notice anything slightly astray ? Best of luck chum Dennis

Thanks for that both you guys. email inbound John Dennis

Hi All, I'm doing my Canberra PR7 conversion as a 58 Sqdn machine with the Flare Bay doors open. Anybody any idea what the Flare Crate/Crates fitted to the PR versions looked like? so that I can fill the hole up with something. T.I.A. Dennis

Thanks for that Julien. I just consider myself to have been very lucky to have been around during a very interesting era - The Cold War. Dennis

These any good ? Not a B(I)8 - didn't shoot them in any detail back in the sixties. B.16 nacelles shown - same Avon 109 and cowlings as the B(I)8. Assume that you are happy with the under surface vents. Photographed her in Malta on a lazy day in August '67 whilst on ASR Standby (Valettas). Scale Models did some drawings of the B(I)8 in January '74 - Don't rate them though. DR

Well !!, thought I'd drop by and see if there were any reactions to the Canberra. Now I don't quite know what to say. Thank you all very very much for your kind comments. Bit lost for words at the moment so I'll try and keep this short. Thanks Ali, appreciate it. Assume we'll see A2Zee in Cupar on the 19th for a Fish Supper at Libbo's a.k.a., the Annual Club Show. I understand Little Cars are coming - not sure who else. DamienB - you asked what she was up to out there. If you look at a map of the Cyprus area, you will see that there are some very interesting places which needed keeping an eye on, especially back in the sixties. It was also quite convenient if some individuals spoke Hebrew and Arabic !. JSSL didn't just teach Russian !!. bexwh773. Thank you - your comments are really appreciated. PM me and I'll send some info over. You are almost on-target with your supposition regarding "Ops" in your reply to DamienB except that the Canberra's usually worked in conjunction with the Comets. There were very strict rules about staying in International Airspace and outside of the borders as defined by various governments which the Unit adhered to. In answer to queries as to why the Ops, tactics and equipment are still classified, it is simply because many of the same, much upgraded and physically changed out of all recognition but still operating on the same principals, are still in use to this day. Indeed I know of a piece of equipment designed and installed in RN Frigates in the late 40's, early 50's, transferred for development into the Lincolns of CSE at Hemswell, issued for Operational use in the Washingtons/Comets of 192/51 and has only just, this year, gone out of service with large brown smoky things, latterly based in the North of these Islands. Thanks Mike (Root Admin) for de-duping it. I really must have a bit more patience and not "stutter". Thanks Mike at Two Mikes - hows the Hawk coming on?. I thought that I had an order in for your tail planes (you obviously noted the deliberate error!). I'd better get one in before VAT shoots through the roof this side of the pond. Jabba - Yep, I was told the same thing on arrival at Wyton. Remember the weekly security lectures and the one phrase that always ended them ? - "The best kept secret is the one that nobody knows". Jon Kunac-Tabino. GrahamS and Smiffy - You asked me to illustrate how I did it. I will with pleasure. I have the 58 Squadron PR.7 (doing one of the very few I saw with nose art) on the bench at the moment which must be ready by the 19th so I'll use the wings from that and open a new topic in the "Work in Progress". To those of you not mentioned - Thank You for your kind comments- Julien you are an old flatterer - it will get you everywhere and I will get that two seat F8 done soon. General - coming from you that's praise indeed - appreciate it. Thank You All - you have really cheered up this KOS. Dennis

Airfix kit modified to represent 51 Squadron's seemingly permanent resident at RAF Akrotiri in the mid sixties. Information obtained during sorties, in conjunction with one of the Units Comet C.2(90Group) aircraft was down loaded from the recorders in the bomb bay by staff from the GCHQ/EWE&TU detachment. When photographed in Feb 66 had recently had two new wing fuel tanks with modified pumps fitted. Cast resin nose and tail aerials, Aeroclub canopy, Alclad II paints, AW serial number decals, kit roundels and maintenance markings (faded with Lifecolour matt white). First model in over a year. Fairly pleased with it. Next one's a PR7 of 58 Squadron using A2Zee's conversion set. Sloegin57

You are correct Jonathan - he did speculate, but it was pointed out, in a later edition I believe, that the Victors were not painted in Desert Pink as the existing scheme at the time (Hemp/LAG) was more than satisfactory.

You are dead right there Pigsty and its not wholly accurate. Gawd know what the ex Victor people think of it

Hi Phil Yes I do. I have passed those details on to Mike at 2 Mikes for his Mk65 build elsewhere on the Forum in the hope that he'll produce some commercial etched brass !!.. As far as I can ascertain, G-HAWK first flew with neither vortex generators nor wing fences fitted. Since that time she had various fits including the "standard" T1 style fence and the export Mk.60 series fences. However, she flew initially in the Gull Grey/White scheme with standard vortex generators fitted but with a wing fence that extended from the usual leading edge back almost to the aileron cut out and about half chord distance underneath. It is thisa fence that I need to get the dimensions of. She did Sidewinder trials in that configuration. I'm off on my hols tomorrow - 400 miles down to deepest Lincolnshire but I'll be back on the 31 May so I'll put some pix up to illustrate what I mean. I just have to get the wing fence/vortex generator/colour scheme/date sorted to my satisfaction. I'm taking a stick with some stuff to work on whilst I'm away including G-VTOL and G-HAWK (plus some stuff for the forth coming Airfix Valiant) - in case I get bored being pampered so I'll be in touch again in a week. Regards Dennis

Hi Phil, the Squadron badges (for both Hawk and Tornado) have been scanned from originals, scaled and layered ready for printing. There appears to be a six month lead in time with most of the print shops so I have no idea when they will be published. Further more, I have been waylaid by "other projects" for the last few months (Fireflash Meteor/Hunter/Swift. et al and 51's Canberras). When the set comes out, it will probably be under the title "HS/BAe aircraft in RSAF Service 1986 - 2000". (72nd and 48th) Decals for G-HAWK and G-VTOL are in "Final Preparation". But and it's a big But. There will need to be a conversion set of etched wing fences for G-HAWK to go with time period and I am at the bottom of the learning curve when it comes to etched brass. Fences/retractable landing light/Brake para housing/new main wheels will also be required for the RSAF Hawks. I'll keep you informed. Regards Dennis

There was a bit of an article in Aeromodeller for July 1967 on the Buccaneer S2 and it mentioned the incident almost in passing. No mention of weaponry used though. The cover painting and scale drawings accompanying the article depicted the 800 NAS C.O.'s aircraft:- Cover:- Article:- DR

Like your modelling style young Mike, I assume you use the same size Chain Saw that I do. As well as the throttle quadrant you may need a new RH rudder pedal in the front cockpit but I won't say anything if you don't just tell the pundits the aircraft has a "Red Line Entry" for it. Ditch the CMK side walls - Scratchbuild I say - much more fun. Cockpit internal detail is dashed on attached but some will be lost behind the side consoles:- By the by, are you sure that the nose gear "bay" is the right way around - on The Real Thing it was just a big hole where the nose gear went. DR

Making it tough on you ? - quite the contrary Old Chap. You'll be building an aeroplane fresh off the production line. Nice and clean and fresh as a daisy. Just a couple of items I thought of last night before turning in. Jonathan Mock has put up an excellent write up on how to emphasise the MDC (Miniature Detonation Cord) in the canopy here:- http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=2607 And you will need to lower the flaps. This was mandatory on the Saudi Hawks (RAF as well I believe) as, due to peculiarities in the hydraulic system, the aircraft could, and did, develop leaks from the nose landing gear bay. They were known as a "Nose Bleed". The only time that the flaps were up was during PE maintenance or an engine change. I have sorted out some notes regarding the ejection seat pin positions. Depending on how you want to display the finished model, you will have a choice between two and six in the seats and MDC Units depending on whether it will be "Safe for Parking" or "Safe for Maintenance". DR

I note that you are using the Airfix T.Mk.1 series kit for this build. Now I do not have my copy of the kit handy but as I recall there are quite a few areas that require improving/changing to turn t ito a Mk.65. The export versions were somewhat different although the broad outline was similar. Off the top of my head some of the differences were:- Revised and thicker main plane skinning to enable the carriage of under wing stores and reduce damage from bird strikes which, I believe, changed the panel lines from those on the T.Mk.1. I understand that when the RAF aircraft were re-winged a while back, export standard items were fitted. A brake parachute was installed in the Mk.65 the housing of which changed the profile at the rear end. Revised main plane fence layout - see drawing. Revised cockpit layout - see photographs. Revised and smaller head box for the ejection seats - later retrofitted to the T.Mk.1. There are bound to be others but I will have to double check them but one other thing that I recall is missing on the kit is that the airbrake and the rear fuselage skinning from around Frame 28 aft, but not including the detachable panels, had mushroom headed rivets - ie the rivets were proud of the structure. The inner door in the kit reflects a very early type as well, I seem to remember, and is not applicable to the Mk.65 COCKPIT DIFFERENCES:- Both basically had the same colour scheme:- Dark Admiralty Gray "tub" and instrument panel with Matt Black internal framing to the canopy and windshield. Instruments and consoles satin black except for Armament and emergency controls which were, in the main, black and yellow striped. The Mk.1 photographs are dated 1976 and the Mk.65 photographs are dated 1986 VORTEX GENERATOR AND MAINPLANE FENCES LAYOUT I will be going off line now to get ready for the Scots Nats. I'll check back Sunday evening. DR

OK Mike. I have just read your original post and you want to model Mk.65 2111. That photograph was taken in the United Kingdom prior to delivery, during crew training and publicity shoots at RAF Valley in Wales. The serial number on the rear fuselage was removed prior to delivery (just peeled off) as it was not in the final specs for the Contract. At this stage, the first five aircraft were finished to spec DTD5580, a somewhat brittle paint, and apart from a few "glossy" bits, which I'll detail later, were dead matt. Later, paint to spec DTD5580A was used as that was much more flexible and did not crack and fall off in chunks in Kingdom (the first five required a complete re-finish only a few months after arriving at Dhahran). LANDING LIGHT see attached - should help:- Inside of landing light cover and landing light were Gloss Light Aircraft Grey. Inside of Landing Light bay was Gloss White WING FENCES AND VORTEX GENERATORS I will go into some detail on these as 1), it will help other modellers detail a Mk.60 series aircraft and 2), it might persuade one of the after market companies to produce a set in etched brass - in fact, I'll be seeing Ali from A2Zee this weekend at the Scots Nats, I'll try and "persuade" him. The attached shot of 2111 was taken over the coast of Wales in the summer of '87 and hopefully illustrates most of the general details you will require. Once I have put the diagramatical and dimension details of the fences/generators into Photobucket - I will post them. DR

Yes Mike, they were. Thus the LH intake internally was painted Light Stone BSC381C 361 and the RH intake internally was painted Dark Earth BSC381C 450 to the depth stated. I've just confirmed that from the TO 1T-H65S-3-1. I have also found a Change to the T.O. (Change 3), which refers to the Mk.65A aircraft, and states :- Note 2 sub para 7:- "Inside of the air intake to be painted local color to a depth of 300 from the leading edge then Light Grey (DTD 5567-BS381C-627G) to engine face". I.E Light Aircraft Grey. That applies to the Mk.65A aircraft only (serial number 7901-- et seq. You will not have got around to it yet but the leading edges of the engine intakes (on camo aircraft), fuselage nose (aft of the non-existant landing light glass) and "Bats Ears" were painted in an anti-erosion paint which was slightly darker than the normal paint. As an aside let us know what period you intend to model the aircraft as the 21st Squadron badge changed a few times out there for various reasons. There was no 37th Squadron or 79th Squadron or Squadron badge during my time there. I assume that you can get decals printed and if you let me know, I'll send over a scan from an original decal to suit the period. After about the first year, touch ups were often carried out using US paints manufactured by LHB Industries, Berkely MO63134 (from a rattle can) or more serious work, if UK paint was not available for any of umpteen different reasons, our Corrosion Control used Code U-4547 Flat Light Stone and Code U-4546 Flat Dark Earth both to MIL-C-83286B from a spray gun. Edit:- Almost forgot. The export Hawks had a different wing fence layout to the T.Mk.1 family and for the RSAF machines you will need to add a retractable landing light in the nose. Also, whilst on the ground, all bungs, blanks and ground locks were fitted - Quality Control were quite strict about that even to the extent that the RBF flags had to be fairly clean. DR