Juanita

Hi Ross Wow, that is a real gem of a web page! Certainly answers all my question about Coastal Command. FYI here is a close up of another of 281 Sqn Warwick around the same time as the photos of BV411 Could be either red or yellow - its such a close call. In Photoshop I pasted a slice of roundel over the codes...the '4' was closer match to the roundel yellow that the roundel red....so I'll take the colour as yellow. However it would be great to know more about the background to SAR code colours. This aircraft (BV417) was lost in June 1944, and its sistership BV411 was lost Sept 1944.

Thanks Graham. Shall get in touch with Rossm...I have a small batch of Coastal Command types to do...from Wellington to Sunderland...and beyond. Would be good to make sure I don't get tangled with the colours! Thanks for you help Graham Cheers Juanita

Thanks Graham Blue undersides: This type of blue colour can also be seen on Avro Yorks (eg MW185)....just looked up my notes (hyperscale discussion 2010), and a chap called Grapham Boak 😀, said that "underside is quite a dark Azure Blue, almost Mediterranean Light Blue." So this was just for transport aircraft travelling over water (such as the Warwick transports), and aircraft operating in the Mediterranean (hense Italian based Warwick )? Safe to assume a 281 Squadron Warwick would have Sky undersides. Facinating to hear the ASR Spitfire has yellow codes. Can you recommend any books/articles that cover Coastal Command schemes? Cheers Juanita

Just wondering about Warwick colours...particular the codes. Does anyone know what the code colours were circa 1944? The scheme I'm interested in is this one BV411 281 Sqn...but the colour of the codes 'B4' are a bit elusive. My understanding is that from around April 1942 the Air Ministry decreed the codes were to be Light Slate Grey, which for some reason tends to look much darker in B/W photograph than it does in colour photos. Was any other code colour introduced in the 1944/45 period for Coastal Command aircraft? Warwicks were introduced in Temperate Sea scheme with sky underside (maybe Sky Blue) But 293 Sqn in Italy in 1944 painted their codes in yellow (underside on this definately looks more Sky blue than Sky) Its very tempting to interpret the colour of these codes as red There is an 'X' between the windows and the roundel ....Light Slate Grey, Red?

Great footage...and dated 1942. Hard to tell exactly what shade the colours are, but the brown looks a bit lighter than how it appears on UK based aircraft during the same time preiod. Gived a good contrast with the green areas.

Very true Graham I have been digging around a bit more and apparently by the later part of the war there were Day Figher Scheme aircraft aircraft operating in the theatre...but long after the Hawk was gone. I don't think it was fading because you would expect the other colours to be so affected...I think it definately relates to the paint used.

Thank you Mark and Graham I've finally been convinced to ignore my eyes and run with the wisdom 🙂 Just joking: determining colours from black/white photos is never more than guesswork. Thank you for the insights. SEA markings around is not something I have studied in depth. I had heard good reports about 'Mohawks over Burma', but I'd been reluctant to get a copy because of the cost (with delivery), however you've convinced me and I have a copy shipping now. Thank you for your help. Juanita

I have been pointed in the direction of Phil Listerman's book on the RAF/SAAF Hawks. Lots of new information - I'm very impressed by his research. Seems that in all probablity the 'A' in the air to air photo is 'Joe Soup' while the well known close up photo is 'Joe Soap II', a different aircraft. https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/The_Curtiss_Mohawk/nEO8DQAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&printsec=frontcover

I have recently come across the larger version of the photo of 'B' and 'F', that includes another 6 of the squadrons aircraft. Its apparent there is a lot of inconsistency in finishes. At that time 'Joe Soap' still has the interim SEA roundel, while 'D' has the final small size SEA dark blue roundel with the light blue centre, while all the rest have the interim roundel. Some aircraft have no rear fuselage bands, 3 have the typical 18" sky band, and two have very narrow bands. From what I can see (its a small and fuzzy photo) the camo demarcation lines on Joe Soap are quite different than on the later photo - between the sharp demarcation lines in the later photo, and the change in camo pattern the aircraft had definitely had a repaint - so fresh paint. Without some weird filter I can't see that being DG/DB....in fact the tonal quality is very much like the UK-based fighter aircraft painted in the ad hock versions of Ocean Grey when the Day Fighter Scheme was first introduced. My impression is that there were quite a lot of RAF aircraft in the CBI in1944 that were finished in Day Fighter Scheme - they were being delivered that way and the Japanese air superiority was rapidly fading. Its not an area I have studies in detail but I know towards the end of the war there were some Spitfires that had their DFS modified with local colours – but they were not in India, they were further East. PS: Is there an easy way to post photos directly into a post without needing a URL?

Thanks for all your replies.

Trying to work out the colours of Mohawks in India (155 Sqn in particular) in later part of their operations. The early Mohawks were standard Dark green/Dark Earth. However, in late 1943/early 1944, some look like they been repainted and the tone looks more like Ocean Grey and Dark Green. In particular ‘Joe Soap’ ‘A’, but you can see the sharp demarcation line on ‘B’ in the attached image. Unless they are using some very weird filter, I do not believe it shows Desert Scheme. I can't tell if they still have their yellow wingtips and outer leading edge...and reportedly, after a friendly fire incident in December 1943, they aircraft also had the underside of their cowls painted yellow (the underside of the cowl on Joe Soap is a tone they could easily be yellow) Juanita And Joe Soap can be seen here https://www.worldwarphotos.info/gallery/usa/aircrafts-2-3/p-36/fo-t-h-meyer-of-55-sqn/

Ah, there are worst places to be stuck than the South Coast…providing you’re not a ‘bustling cities’ type person.😊 Just sad to not see family (its been a while), otherwise I have nothing to complain about. Juanita

Thank you Blimpyboy. Sydney has just gone into a Covid semi-volentary soft lockdown...so I've got more time on my hands than expect. 😞 It is interesting to see how German lettering changed during WW2. 1930s aircraft manual are very difficult to deciper. Thank you for digging up that old discussion thread. I will look at it now.

Thank you - your suggestions are helpful. Is this an 'old' type of text that is no longer used?

Judging by the refuelling truck, its definately a later period. How was my interpretation of Thai (Siam) text? Could you see the image in my last post? Juanita

Thank you very much for those, and for the suggestion to search with the designation บ.ฝ.๘ (B.F.8) It is interesting to see the line up of Harvards...the closest one has dark camouflage colours, but two of the ones behind it have a much lighter colour in the camouflage pattern. The Hawk 75 that I am drawing has dark camouflage colours...much like the nearest Harvard. I will have more of a look through the blog website - it looks very interesting. Perhaps I might find other aircraft with colours that might be a clue for the Hawk 75. Looking closely at the Hawk photo it seems the aircraft underside was natural metal, which suggests it was not a factory paint scheme, but that it was camouflage in Thialand. I am having trouble with the tail code. This is the photo compared with my artworks - is it correct? Juanita

Hi Blimpyboy You have me intrigued, but your link didn't seem to come through...would you mind trying again Juanita

Thanks Graham

Thanks for the reply Graham (and sorry for my slow response) The researcher I'm working with is sure that the colours were two tone brown. Certainly nothing like the colours of the restored example. I'll have a hunt through Ethell's images on line. Suspect the photos you're talking about won't appear, but its worth a try. Juanita

Hi all Wondering what camo colours were used on the Thai North American NA-68 and NA-69 (Harvard family). The colors are normally depicted as a olive drab type colour and a mid brown. However I have heard the colours were in fact two tones of brown. Here are photos of the Thai examples after they were redirected to US training schools. https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/threads/north-american-a-27.53755/ If the dark colour is dark green then it must be one of the light shades of something like Olive Drab If the 'two tones of brown' is correct then could it be something like the RAF desert scheme (which might also better match the tonal quality of the photos): https://military.wikia.org/wiki/North_American_T-6_Texan?file=North_American_Harvard_II_restored_in_desert_camouflage.jpg (maybe a touch toned down from this) Juanita

Thank you Simon! I hadn't discovered that aspect of the website. What a gem. Juanita

I'm looking for photos of the B-17G-60-BO model (Serial 42-102744 to 42-102978) in order to determine their style of tail and waist gun installation. This batch seems to be rarely photographed. The earlier aircraft in the 42-102### series tend to be be metal finish, 'F' style tail gun position, but the waist guns had the later-style large fix perspex glazing....but it was a time of transition and the B-17G-60-BO models might have been different. Juanita

Brilliant! Thank you James and Ginger Bob...that more than answers my question. Juanita

What is the length of the Canberra wingtip tanks - the standard version? Trying to get a tanks to 'sit' right on the wingtip but I haven't found any technical data/dimensions for the tanks themselves. Juanita

Thanks Super Aereo Do you have any official documentation relating to markings of the 15 AF?