MDriskill

Duly noted...and respectfully disagreed with. The photographer was about half a step closer and one step farther to the right in the Mk IV pic, not enough to cause gross changes in image foreshortening. And I shan't further beat the dead horse of my opinion vis-a-vis Mr. Archer's pics! Here is a nifty film clip of a Martlet Mk I, with, among other things, some superb canopy close-ups. http://www.britishpathe.com/video/american-aircraft-for-raf/query/grumman+martlet The Mk I is my favorite of all Wildcat variants. With the big paddle-blade Hamilton prop, singular lack of bumps and bulges, and yes that rather sporty-looking short canopy--one could darn near call it pretty, LOL...

I don't mean to be contrary, but the difference in canopy proportions is very obvious to my eye. On the Mk IV, each of the two lower side panels in the sliding portion of the canopy looks more or less "square," I.e., width and height about the same. On the Mk I, both panels seem taller than they are wide--slight difference in the front one, but quite noticeable in the rear one. As for factory drawings, they may not exist. Many moons ago in pre-net days, I contacted the history departments at both Grumman and General Motors (Eastern Aircraft) in an effort to find F4F drawings better than the simple diagrams in the Pilot's Handbooks and Erection and Maintenance Manuals, but was told that all wartime documentation had been discarded. I'd love to be proven wrong on that, needless to say! We really need a friend with a tape measure at Yeovilton... Apologies for once again savaging Mr. Archer's photos...Mk I Mk IV

This was discussed at some length here (though most of the illustrations are now dead thanks to our Photobucket friends!): http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234929183-martlet-mki/ The fuselage structure was identical aft of the firewall (by which I mean the major bulkhead just behind the landing gear) in ALL Wildcats, including the Martlets Mk I and Mk IV, but the Mk I's sliding canopy was significantly shorter, and its windscreen further aft. Some of the early F4F-3 prototypes were the same, though the production -3 (built after the Martlet I) and all other later variants had the longer canopy. I think if you look closely at the proportions of the sliding portion, you can see both panels are actually shorter on the early canopy. Also look at Jumpei Temma's Wildcat builds linked above, and scroll to the final page. There is a brilliant fuselage profile diagram comparing the three Cyclone-engined Martlets, showing perfectly the canopy and cowl changes in these.

Those are awesome! Sounds like a ton of "FUN," that oft-forgotten thing that a "hobby" is supposed to be about, LOL. Always particularly liked the Hurricane in Finnish markings, it's quite striking in big scale.

I think we've had this chat before, LOL! In my opinion, it is the SHORT Hasegawa nose which is closest to the correct dimension, when I've scaled it against Mr. Bentley's drawings, or Mr. Cooke's sketch above. So, I guess we will have to "agree to disagree" on that one, but it's actually besides the point of my original post, which was simply to point out that two different snouts were produced. Similarly, the "Murphy's Law" crack was just bad humor! I claim no expertise in Hasegawa kit release history.

One minor additional note on the Hasegawa 1/72 Hurricane kits. They were molded with a separate nose section, which was made in two different lengths--a shorter one for the Mk I, and a longer one for the Mk II. For reasons known only to the Almighty and Mr. Hasegawa, the "Battle of Britain" Mk I issue of the kit, which was the first to be released, has the LONGER nose, i.e., not correct for the Mk I. In full compliance with Murphy's Law, this version seems to be the one most often found. All the other Mk I boxings have the correct shorter nose.

Another good batch of pics here, with a few fine close-ups of the 190's, including some always hard-to-find underside details: http://www.worldwarphotos.info/gallery/germany/aircrafts-2/mistel/ The "world war photos" site is new to me, looks quite outstanding overall. Got the link from another Britmodeller post!

Here's a later version of the link referenced early in the thread, and in English. Be sure to scroll all the way to the end! It starts with a conversion of F4F-4 to FM-2; then follows with conversion of F4F-4 to F4F-3. There are full drawings of these three variants, and lovely profiles of each Martlet variant to boot: http://www.geocities.jp/yoyuso/fm2/fm2e-1.html

By far the best source I know of, is the out-of-print Classic Publications book, "Mistel: German Composite Aircraft and Operations 1942-45," by Robert Forsyth. The book has a particularly good selection of post-war photos showing the guiding Fw 190's quite well. Unfortunately, at this point finding a reasonably-priced copy will obviously be a challenge: https://www.abebooks.com/book-search/title/mistel-german-composite-aircraft-operations/author/robert-forsyth/ Osprey has also recently released a title on Mistel units, less comprehensive but well done and affordable: https://www.amazon.com/Luftwaffe-Mistel-Composite-Bomber-Aircraft/dp/1472808460

Sounds like we spent the day with the same under-wing gunaccess panel bonnet bee on the loose... The following images all come from the superb Central Repository for Aircraft Photography site (which link I believe I first discovered here on Britmodeller): https://www.flickr.com/photos/133697406@N05/albums First, a well-known shot of an F4F-3's undersides. Nice and slick under the wing, not an access door or blister in sight. The gun adjustment trunnions are accessed through little holes behind the ejection slots: Next, an F4F-4 (same basic 6-gun folding wing as Martlet II and IV). The single ammo bin access panel for the inboard pair of guns is evident, as is the "tempestfan blister" in front of the outer gun's shell slot. The blisters under the adjustment trunnions were necessitated by the main spar's being farther to the rear in the folding wing; i.e., the gun breeches, located aft of the spar, are no longer in the thickest part of the airfoil: An FM-1 (aka Martlet V), same famous pic you already found. The later 4-gun folding wing deletes the outer guns, with longer access panels for the inner guns' ammo boxes: Finally an FM-2 (Martlet/Wildcat VI). Wing details identical to the FM-1 as far as I can tell:

Great catch, thanks for that! It would make sense to think a little scoop behind the cockpit was for something else anyhow, maybe just to help the radio and batteries stay cool?

I certainly agree. From a modelling perspective, it's frustrating that this beautiful aircraft only ever appeared in the IJNAF's ho-hum green over gray, LOL... With Nick's Asahi Journal comments in hand--believable or not!--I could be tempted to do an all-gray one with black nose and Soryu stripes...!

I too am a big fan of Jumpei-san's work! His eye for complex three-dimensional forms is unmatched, and IMHO these are the best F4F drawings currently available. But I do quibble with his access doors on the 6-gun wing. These two illustrations from Dana Bell's excellent recent book make the point, I think. First the diagram so often mis-interpreted--an upper surface view, the dashed lines only showing the ammo box locations, not their access panels: But this photo of an F4F-4 shows clearly that both inboard guns were covered by a single access panel. Note also that both inner and outer panels slightly overlap the wing openings, and have angled corners:

I would add that just about every Wildcat kit, and published drawing, in existence, renders the underside ammo access doors incorrectly. Typically you see a separate narrow access panel for each ammo bin, but in fact both inboard bins were covered by a single panel. The double panels here were, I suspect, originally a misinterpretation of the simplified drawings in the F4F's O&M manuals, but the single panel is obvious in any underside photo of these aircraft (which unfortunately seem quite hard to find). This is true both for the two inboard guns on the 6-gun folding wing (F4F-4, Marlet II and IV), and for the guns on the later 4-gun wing (FM-1, FM-2, Martlet V and VI). As tempestfan mentioned, the latter design had the bay and access panel extended for the larger ammo bins.

Probably an ignorant question...but what became of the un-used wing gun access doors on these early converted recon Spitfires? Were they simply left closed, or puttied and smoothed over? Or was the wing actually re-skinned in some way?

I would vote solidly for the Eduard Hellcat, and Hasegawa Fw 190A-8. But for what it's worth, the Tamiya 190 is also very good, and a supremely easy build. The wheels are a bit undersized, but they did IMHO the best job capturing the elusive shape of the nose gun cover, and the kit has been released both as an A-8 and F-8.

As far as I can tell, this book is not available in electronic format. BUT, if you look at link to the book on the Valiant site, scroll to the bottom and you will see that there are two supplemental sections in PDF that are free downloads. These cover reviews of kits, accessories and decals that are not in the book. As Fernando mentioned, Osprey produces many excellent titles on the Fw 190, and I believe all of them are available in electonic format. Look on Osprey's site, or on Amazon, etc. You can view the classic superb Fw 190 drawings by Arthur Bentley at his site: http://www.albentley-drawings.com/

Very nicely done! The accuracy improvements are very noticeable, and the paintwork is super.

Very nice! Excellent weathering and well-selected markings. The closely-spaced stripes are a striking touch.

Those are BEAUTIFUL! I really like them a lot, great job...!

A very good general book on the 190 that is readily available is the Valiant title in their "Airframe and Miniature" series: http://www.valiant-wings.co.uk/airframe--miniature-no7-73-p.asp Though it does have some occasional errors in the text and captions, it is hard to beat for overall value, or the sheer amount of information it contains. Details, drawings, history, color schemes, variant differences, and more are included. It contains a very good section on buiding various kits as well, but unfortunately was published before the Eduard 1/72 kits were released.

I'd like to see more of that model! That is one ambitious vac-form build, and looks lovely so far...

Garry C, a superb post, thanks for the great photos and comments. You are correct that the factory overall dimension typically INCLUDES the spinner hub...so is of limited value when analyzing fuselage geometry. A very important point. But speaking of terminology...have I been using the word "firewall" incorrectly all these years? I would call the solid bulkhead to which the wing, gear, and engine mounts are attached the Wildcat's firewall, but you use the term for the enclosure at the immediate rear of the engine. Is there a consensus on this?

Thanks Nick...yes, I found those color shots in "Moonlight Interceptor," about 10 seconds after my previous post! Oh, well. Your comments on the model colors are right on as always--I probably overstated its reliance on the Mikesh technical notes! Still, one of my favorite all-time HS posts, and a striking example of what can be done with a good kit and careful painting.

Ah...I wondered earlier if we were talking about two different books. For whatever my opinion is worth, I HIGHLY recommend "Moonlight Interceptor," especially at that price! It is the best in the Smithsonian paperback series, and one of the great "all in one" modeling references of all time--history, details, variants, detailed interior and exterior color and markings information, interior detail drawings, and a really fine set of 1/72 GA drawings all together. There is no color printing in the book unfortunately but that's available elsewhere as already mentioned.