Mike S

The 'rubble' type scheme was achieved in two ways. If vehicles went from UK they were either Khaki Green 3 or later SCC.12 brown. The lighter 'stones' were added locally with offiicial paints when possible or some local mixtures leaving the 'joints' the basic colour. Note that Matilda II 'Griffin' has its name on the base colour panel, not black as is shown on some artwork. When the A10 and A13 went from Egypt they were the Light Stone 61 then in use and had the dark 'joints' added on Malta. The design varied greatly , literally from crazy paving to chessboard and on many requisitioned civilian trucks too.

Most ground equipment was a single colour. but on bomber fields were it was normal to bomb up at dusk some of the trollys had white or yellow sides so as the more easily seen. One point about that coloured Churchill. The darker colour is SCC.14 black. Dark Tarmac would have been unlikely as its use was cancelled in late 1941 so only remaining stocks would have been used. The tank belongs to the Guards Armoured Divison Training Regiment and being the Guards it is tarted up. Strictly speaking it should not have the darker colour on it since the MTP.46 document does not mention AFVs in the instructions, only softskins. But numbers of AFVs were so painted in early 1942, but very few thereafter. I strongly suspect that there is a later directive somewhere that states that AFVs should not be so painted.

The colour of a Tilly at this time would have been SCC.2 brown basic with SCC.1A dark brown 'Mickey Mouse' disruptive painting. As the RAF did not use these cars then an army vehicle it has to be. Marked as and R.A. car since airfield defence was army responsibility for several years with 40mm Bofors and 20mm cannon. These were most likely officers vehicles so you need an Battery officers car marking. Suggest you try ra39-45.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk for more information.

SCC.,15 did not come into use until April 1944. All equipment items before then were SCC.2 brown.

The correct terminology of colours is Dark Green, Dark Earth and Ocean Grey. There are no really close FS colours to these, they were MAP shades specifically for British aircraft. FS34079 is nearer than 340102. Nothing even close for Dark Earth but FS36118 lightened might do for Ocean Grey.

Having just come in on this interesting thread, I noticed other features on the photographs not yet mentioned. The colour demarcation lines are uneven and rough along the wings, lower fuselage and engine cowling. This strongly suggests to me an undersurface repaint. The serial is still visible on the rudder which suggests no change in the upper surface colours; ESG /DSG were not a scheme in 1939. The dark area under the leading edge might be black, it is difficult to be sure with the reflections off adjacent the top surface.

According to Barry Beldam HQ =50; 4 H = 52; 7 H =53. all on red. Kangeroos which were 4H & 7H DD Valentine IX & XI later replaced by Shermans, (D. Oliver) . Unfortunately Hodges & Taylor do not give the 15 army group independent brigades AOS in their book. Brigade sign is white horse on green. Joslen gives a full list of units but no markings.

The British did not use half tracks in the desert, Light Stone 61 is a NO with this. However 1st Army in North Tunisia which is not desert may have have some and they would have been US Olive Drab or SCC.2 brown with or without SCC.1A or black 'MM' type disruptive painting. For Operation Husky a specific disruptive pattern A/190 was issued in April 1943 for M2 scout cars and this was used for the M5/M9 series half tracks too.

There are no roundels showing and no other details either. I think that this is a heavily censored photograph, possibly for use in an aircraft recognition pamphlet as that sort of thing was done so as to make observers recognise/identify the type without any nationality aids. This was common during WW 2 and for years afterwards. Until recently I had the ROC recognition Journals from 1947 until the corps disbanded and many of the lessons in that used same style of presentation.

The large crosses were applied after the Polish campaign as stated due to friendly fire and the smaller sizes difficult to see. The slightly ambiguous order resulted in some cases on the display of two upper wing crosses.

I looked a those Wildcat pictures and concluded rightly or wrongly the these retained their original USN Light Grey underneath and had been repainted with the usual naval colours on top, due to the low contrast between those colours and the obvious greater contrast between Dark Earth and Mid Stone.

I am with Nick 100% on this. I recognised the pictures immediately. On this subject be warned; there is a book published last year titled something like 'WW 2 in Colour'. All of the contents are familiar, to me at least, of wartime pictures that have been colourised . There are some wonderful gaffs too. He 111 in RAF brown and green as are some Condor Legion Bf 109s based in France and Lamberty's shot down Dornier.

Just one point; steel helmets and webbing were not worn in tanks, they caught on all of the numerous protrusions inside and seriously hampered one's fast exit. Otherwise very neatly built.

Since that article by William was published, further photographs of 'Bellman' and other tanks of the unit show that the three colours were used. The problem with the colours used on this scheme is that Silver Grey and Light Stone often appear on photographs as single tone due to the type of film and emulsions used in the process.

It was usual for repaints of captured e/a to carry the scheme for trainers and communications aircraft, DE/DG and yellow. Although the Me 109G is in day fighter uppersurfaces.

The hole each side were for access to filler caps.

I must point out that Caunter colouring was formally cancelled in December 1941 but the practice of non-application seems to have started in October 1941 as a result of a notification of camouflage policy change. Numbers of Stuart, Crusader and Valentine tanks carrying the 'Operation Crusader' markings are overall Light Stone only. These are evidently replacements issued during the operation.

Checking through some photographs of JG1 aircraft, it is noticable that some do have coloured spinners rather than RLM 70. In 1940 it was common practice to carry the staffel colour on the spinners of Me 109s so it is quite likely that the practice continued for a while when JG 1 re-equipped with Fw 190s. Yellow was the specified cowl and rudder colour for Channel coast units in 1941 so the kit markings were probably correct. Not positive but it may help.

This might help, notes taken from my father-in-law's WW2 armourer's note book. All live bombs Dark Green; Fillings; Amatol, Bararol & T.N.T. 1 inch Light Grey band. H.E. = 1/2 inch bright Red band at nose. S.A.P. = 1/2 inch White band above Red band A.P. = 1/2 inch White band each side of Red band. All live bombs and rockets carry a 1/2 inch Light Green band below any of the above combination, it does NOT replace them Practice bombs overall White with 1/2 inch Green band. Lettering on Live bombs is White or Light Grey, and Black on practice bombs. Depth Charges and torpedos Black or Dark Blue.

Airfix Academy and Heller in 1/72.

Using Nick' excellent respose to my question to him some years ago I came up with these mixes for the orange-yellow in question. Humbrol:- 12 pts H134 + 1 pt H174 or 10 pts Revell 310 + 1 pt H154. A touch of H64 reduces the intensity on a model.

As stated the RAF did not take Austin 'Tillys' on charge. It is quite likely the the RAF did in fact use a very few at various times, possibly on loan for short periods. Colours; BS.33 RAF Blue-Grey came into use in October 1937 under AMO A364/37 for all UK based ground vehicles. The colour was officially discontinued in August 1941 under AMO A618/41 and replaced by colours as then in use by the army which were Khaki Green 3 and either Tarmac Green 4 or Light Green 5 as disrupters. RAF Blue-Grey was reinstated in April 1946 under AMO A/302/46 but with gloss black wings, valance chassis and wheels. Wartime colours were excatly those as for the army, the AMOs governing this mirrored the War Office ACIs with a month or so. The shade of blue usually associated with RAF vehicles is not accurately depicted on restored vehicles or models. The true colour is quite dark, no model paint are as yet available for it. The nearest was the old now extinct Humbrol 112 Tarmac colour, even that needed adjusting. Humbrol 96 is the uniform colour. The colour can be mixed with Humbrol paints as : 5 pts 32 grey +2 pts 14 blue + 2 pts 85 black. Markings: The beloved roundel was not carried on RAF vehicles until May 1941 earliest, neither was ther bridge sign. Until then RAF vehicles were identified by a paper sticker displayed in the nearside of the windscreen showing the words 'RAF' black on white or vice versa. The whitel etters 'R.A.F.' were not always displayed on the cab doors either. Bridge signs became mandatory when RAF vehicles were deployed overseas. Their use quickly became standard since there was no means of knowing when any vehicle may be deployed overseas. There are variations about the above. Some RAF vehicles in France during 1939-40 did carry disruptive camouflage similar in style to that of the army. The actual colours are unknown at present but British army paints for vehicles or buildings camouflage or French paint are most likely. In the South of England during the BofB period photographs do show disruptive painting on some vehicles. This is highly unlikely to have been aircraft paints and dopes as these are not compatable with enamel paint on vehicles. Once more army vehicle colours or those for buildings camouflage are most likely together with locally procured commercial paint of suitable colour is quite possible although these tended to be gloss for the civilian market.

I have probably used the wrong word fanciful, much simplfied/ inaccurate would be better. The depicted scheme is supposed the represent the pre-war camouflage scheme but it does not. The actual scheme is far more 'ziz-zag' in layout with more coloured areas too. I don't have a copy of the actual Ju 52 prewar scheme, only the wartime pattern. However it is possible to recreate it with suitable scale drawings of a Ju 52 and one of any number of drawings showing the pre-war layout on twin engined aircraft.

This is a little too complex to do justice to here. Mail me on [email protected] and I can attach a list of camo and marking changes in chronological order. Subject RAF trainer please then I shall spot it oK.

For those of you who wish to customise your 1/72 Luftwaffe aircraft codes Fantasy Printshop have released sets of solid black code letters and numbers in sizes ranging from 2.5mm up to 16.5mm high. These should enable modellers to make up almost any set of unit and ferry codes that they wish and have the rediced sized unit codes used from 1943. Sheets are A4, the smaller codes are all together on one sheet.