greatgonzo
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Posts posted by greatgonzo
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And the C-series You are showing is a non military version with low tension ignition. Often used on warbirds, yet completely different animal when it comes to ignition system.
If You wanted to use F4U engines for reference, You'd have to go with early production. Most of the Corsairs got R-2800s with pressurised harness. All operational flying P-47s up to M/N used B series engines with tube harness collector (like the one on Your 'No Guts...' pic). The transition to -59 model featured new 'turtle back' distributors with integrated magneto. Add propeller governor to that, and You'll have collection of all items regularly confusing modellers and model producers. As mentioned above, it is easier to talk specific examples. Otherwise there is a place for a solid article on this subject.
By the way, when I say harness I mean everything between ignition mechanism and spark plugs.
The wiring question is harder. It is possible to find wires with isolation only, but on most occasion metal braid was used. Isolation was brown, possible black. Silver metal netting used to weather to patina effect, often with greenish tone added. I never cared about diameter of the cables, I admit. In modelling this is the kind of item, You'd rather scale with an eye then a ruler.
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Question: At the upper end of the cylinder is a part looking like a handhold. Still under the deflection blade. What is this part for?
Oil pipe connecting rocker chambers.
Question: The ignition wiring from the central harness outgping is this for each cylinder or divides it later on after some radial distance?
For each spark plug,
Question: The front spark plug and the rear one: How is the rear plug wired?
From the same harness ring, over the cylinder top.
I have many photos,
If You added some with red arrow, or something, I could have a chance to know if I am answering what You have actually asked. I am guessing here a little :).
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'Geronimo' of the 80th FG, CBI is what comes to mind first. I am not sure about decals though.
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23 hours ago, Starfighter said:
but from which model / serial number were they changed ?
You should go with a picture of Your aircraft anyway. P-47s were modifiable and modified. In the end if You still had something like D-2 in the line, standing next to, let's say, D-16 - they would have been indistinguishable for the eye.
Another misleading thing is the early series like D-2 were produced with early engine flaps configuration, featuring no lower items. However, these were added even before the aircraft left US land, heading to their TO.
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And it was! It was Felix Shacki IIRC (or was it Ralph Safford?), who mentioned they were very proud of making Gabresky's bird waxed, but it was hell of a job. It was an off time effort and took weeks to be finished, only to continue forever to keep the effect alive.
P-47s were painted OD 41. Holding on to colour standard by paint producers is another issue :).
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Good point! Never occurred to me before. Had to check. Seems the separate switch box is a later issue starting with D-20. With D-1 You are safe to go for switch and circuit breaker on the main board.
Thanks for that!
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E&M - Erection & Maintenance Instructions.
QuoteI believe that D-1s had SCR522 retro-fitted in Europe.
Possible but doubtful. The radio specification for aircraft send overseas states SCR-522 as standard equipment for fighters going to ETO. Both, assembled and crated.
Quoteis there any way to tell if the photos above are the only close ups I have?
There isn't. The insulators were not removed and it was at unit level to deal with them or not. That is AFAIK.
As stated above, both versions are seen on the operational aircraft. Looking for other ships of the same time frame and unit is a way to get some educated guess if no pics of chosen plane available. As usual :).
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3. Yeah, E&M agrees with You :).
1. You mean SCR-522 radios? Yes, VHF radios where used at ETO long before first USAAF aircraft took off of the British soil. Americans had to adapt and did.
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1. MkII British gunsight - standard issue at ETO.
2. Yes, but it is control box for SCR-522 radio.
3. It will be switch box for CE propeller, of course. You can see it in the pictures in the link You provided.
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I have doubts. Malta is not my area of interest, so I'll be glad to be corrected.
When MkIX came to Malta the need for special camouflage was not a priority any more. The danger for the island was gone, the intensity of the battle was gone. Invasion of Italy was supposed to be a new battlefield. Other Maltan new Spitfires do show classic two colour camouflage on top.
The only pic of T-Z I know is of quite poor quality.
I worked on it just a little bit and in my opinion it is required to invest a lot of will in it to see one colour scheme on upper surfaces.
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It was painted on the squadron level in PAF. The erks were not very familiar with heraldic rules. Not many people are today. Although the position of colours on the checker board is quite controversial subject in Poland it doesn't mean everybody knows which version is which by heart . I know some modellers do :).
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If You are going to use teardrop shaped tanks, don't. Never used on 56th P-47.
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There were no camouflaged Bubbletop P-47s produced for USAAF. Remember every aircraft on the line was predestined to specific TO including information was it the standard order or replacement one. At the time there was no reason to paint the plane except the lend-lease orders. That does not mean there were no corrections after leaving the gates of the factory. AFAIK Mexican aircraft were transfered from USAAF as were many of the RAF birds. But I don't know much about Mexican unit.
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Brazilian P-47s were lend-lease aircraft, and as such they were painted OD/NG on production line. USAAF P-47s were NMF-ed at the time.
Any American Bubbletop with camouflage on was painted in the field, or acquired from Brazilian unit (or French, but I don't recall any example).
Not necessarily in whole. The famous Raymond Knight's 'Oh Johnnie' of the 350th FG is a good example of ex Brazilian fuselage with new NMF wings fitted.
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It's GABRESKI/SAFFORD/SCHACKI/DIFRANZA. The letters should be black though. It is a FB hosting so the link probably will be inactive soon.
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As said, I can see both versions and I could argue for both. Which clearly shows I know sh... .
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Ah, here we are, I didn't get that!
You mean we have NMF wings with painted flaps fitted in the picture?
I would say the wings are painted. And it doesn't make sense to me fitting painted flaps, then removing them to paint the wings and fitting them again. I don't know for sure, of course, but what could have been gained by such a strange procedure?
Now, I made a trick I usually perform when in doubt. I looked at at the picture forgetting my first impression and and trying to see the opposite idea. 9 of 10 times in these occasions I am able to see it, this opposite one. No surprise I did see it this time too... .
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When I wrote -there's a lot 'seems' and opinions- I meant my post only and I was trying to sound apologising.
4 hours ago, Tbolt said:Reference the wings being painted without the ailerons and flaps, what info do you have on that?
I could rewrite the next paragraph of Your post word for ward answering this question. Just having ideas from pic You've posted and alike.
Yet, this picture of Yours alone clearly defines the process. In my opinion :).
Of course You are right mentioning the priming being less used later on. Then it came back a little when reports from the front arrived mentioning increasing corrosion problems. I am talking general here, not pointing specific P-47 instructions. As I said, with later, not camouflaged P-47s I would go for elements primed and over sprayed with silver paint or just anodised. For Lend Lease birds I would circle back to the beginning with ZC primer and camouflage colour on top. But these wouldn't even be opinions. More like guesses I'd say.
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E&M is not quite clear about that. My opinion is hinges were primed with ZCY. It seems (well, almost for sure) wings were painted fully assembled, less ailerons and flaps, meaning the colour of the under surfaces was sprayed on the hinges too. With NMF aircraft, I would say the hinges were sprayed a coat of silver paint or anodised.
Lot of 'seems' and opinions here, I am afraid, but the pics of D-4 taken out of New Guinea jungle seem (again
) to get along with this idea.
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1 hour ago, 72modeler said:
Kinda thought what you said is what I said
Cool then :).
Turtle buck under the hood was NMF for silver aircraft just like Tbolt said. No reason to think different. And light reflexes are doing their job on many pics.
OD anti reflex panels are camouflage colour here and so was the top fuselage space under bubble canopy.
1 hour ago, Graham Boak said:I feel you are being over-confident here.
Who knows, but I disagree. Are You sure we are talking about the same picture? If not, glad to send You mine, so You can admit I am not ;).
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33 minutes ago, 72modeler said:
as you have correctly stated; so anything is possible
Not me. I really don't like this statement, as it is far to general and opens door for unsupported speculations. When you start to study anomalies of finishes or equipment it usually turns out these are result of agreements between manufacturer and purchaser, or at least internal factory instruction. And usually it is possible to define the period when it was even possible with many aircraft being known to be excluded out of such 'strange finish pool'. Of course with thousands aircraft of one type produced not ordinary examples had to happen, yet it is always better to have an explanation for anomaly, and it better will not be 'it could have happened', or 'they used whatever fell into their hands'.
This is general idea and not meant as personal to You :).
The pics I am talking about are clear close ups and there is no doubt the effect is not generated by light games. True, it happens very often and may be misleading but not here. The thing is we cope against consequent US way of finishing fighter aircraft in these areas (under canopies and hoods) being valid for both Army and Navy, production process evidence and many pictures. It is up to modeller to decide what it was, yet in my opinion it would be better to recognise the whole background, or at least as much of it, as possible.
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All correct. Yet there are exceptions, which is quite an obvious statement in these kind of discussions. Well, doubts would be a better word here. There are pics of OD camouflaged Razorbacks showing the shade of the area under the sliding hood clearly contrasting to camouflage paint and corresponding with interior colour. Still pics are black and white. I wouldn't go a step farther than doubt though, as these are 405th FG birds. The group aircraft where often delivered from VIIIth AF groups receiving new Bolts or converting to P-51s. In my opinion it is more than possible that the effect is the result of refurbishment before delivery and new paint contrasting with original one. But, there is an oddity and I am bringing it in.
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At Your service! Far from an expert, i am afraid, but showing signs of enthusiasm :).
R 2800 engine questions
in Aircraft WWII
Posted
And so I did. If You wanted to see what P-47 engines looked like using F4U as a source is what I meant.