Troy Smith

Again, a quick thanks to our @Etiennedup for hosting his fabulous collection of period colour images, which means I know where to find them easily Anyway, Used these many times... Masses of fascinating detail dull red rubber cannon seals, faded vs fresh Dark Earth and Middle Stone, exhaust deposits on the 2nd and 3rd stack, Close up of RCAF Spitfire V, 1943. by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr RCAF Spitfire V, 1943. by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr Note bits of paper doped over the shell ejector slots to stop dust entering, which would rip through when empty cases were ejected. RCAF Spitfire Mk V, 1943. by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr an interesting detail, the part visible serial, often wondered at full ID, so had a look at Spitfire production site, http://www.airhistory.org.uk/spitfire/p029.html all the BR4** are either PRIV T, or Vc T.... But pics show a B wing Note history of this BR470 BR470 VcT 2964 CHA M 46 FF 21-5-42 8MU 22-5-42 82MU 4-6-42 'Nigerstroom' 20-6-42 Takoradi 6-7-42 Middle East 18-7-42 601Sq FTR ops 31-8-42 SOC 23-9-42 salvaged 1-12-42 451Sq 417Sq 'AN-V' SOC 29-8-46 Look like BR470 failed to return (FTR) was struck off charge, then salvaged and the rebuilt with a B wing! ? also https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crp9LBuzQkE note AN-V at 0.37-0.39 @gingerbob @Geoffrey Sinclair

Why? I disagree, and will expand on a variety of factors as to why, which maybe of interest. The Tropical scheme has been discussed often, with little 'proof' other than a handful of possible photos and some written discussion. There are examples of desert Hurricanes that show that they were delivered in Temperate Land Scheme, and repainted. There are examples of TLS finish with Desert Scheme together, and the TLS plane is very weathered, and the Dark Green is still darker than the Dark Earth on the desert schemes from film, still are here https://www.britishpathe.com/asset/stills/92254/ And, yes, some excellent examples of that disruptive nose pattern on an aluminium paint base. how weathered? Battered.... I see a blob of fresh Dark Earth behind the K I could just about believe it being Tropical Scheme, compared to the Hudson, but why would the rear fuselage then be Dark Earth? examples of TLS repaints JV-I/BP158 and JV - (it has a horizontal bar) Note the dark canopy frames (Dark Green) All the examples I have seen are in in BP*** range and IID's Meanwhile HV663/ U - 6 Sq, 71 OTU, SOC HW313/ S - 6 SQ, shot down by flak on anti tank sweep near Sfax, 6.4.43 (note photo is dated 6.4.43!) HV594 /P , 6 Sq, Missing on anti-tank sweep near Sfax, 6.4.43 Are all in standard desert finish. regarding fresh vs faded Dark Earth and Middle Stone ( and interesting story as well..) RCAF Spitfire V, 1943. by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr So, while Tropical is a maybe, I don't believe the part Tropical/part Desert interpretation. Again, why? why half a repaint? One factor, there are examples of the fabric parts of Hurricanes either fading, or being of a more matt finish, appearing faded compared to the metal sections. More often seen on early examples, note the wing colour variations, and the fabric panel at the wing root, and the fresh Dark Earth where the roundel yellow fuselage outer rings have been painted out. Hurricane by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr Note variation in the Dark Earth here Close up of Hurricane Mk II d . by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr The only example I have run across in years of these discussions is this https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235126080-three-colour-wellington-camouflage/ I hope my lengthy critique and examples have been of interest. Indeed, I have seen quite a few of these where a too dark wash has been used and really spoils the end result. Lengthy post on colours aside, the model is very well done in build and finish.

If you access check the RAL colours, the brown is RAL 8008, the Blue-grey is RAL 5008. The 5008 is a dark colour on the chip. I have RAL K-7 deck. But, desert sun does hammer paint colour. Frequently poor it seems. I have their interactive Israeli colors and was not impressed. The blue mix maybe OK, but XF-52 is a pale reddy brown. Nothing like RAL 8008 HTH

One detail I picked up from years of reading on here, regarding wear on the prop, and this was something I learned on here from pilots comments, @Work In Progress I think, that prop blades wear most on the back! To do with airflow, but the back will often scour back to bare metal from the tip, while the front is overall in good shape. It hard to see on photos, as it frequently look like the picture has just over exposed, or light reflectance. as luck would have it, well seen on Marine Corsairs on coral strips this is front and back of '5' front shows a bit of wear on leading edge back, note the lower blade is still black at root, and bare metal at tip. The wear is clearer here the lower blade being in shadow clearly shows the remaining black paint. anyway, great model

Very neat work Andy Not sure about AK colors myself, one detail, those Rotol props have blades made out of compressed wood. Some blade types have metal leading edges but not the Hurricane ones that I have seen. you can see the wood here You got the wear pattern right, on rear of the blades. Minor point aside, up to your usual standard of build and photography

Both the the old tool Revell kits did, the late 60's ones, but basic. The Spitfire had a side engine panel open, the Hurricane the top engine panel, so the other parts are less 'detailed' The 1/32nd Lanc kits come with Merlins, someone may have some of those unused. I'm after windscreens and probably some other bits..... cheers T

pilot at 2.59 is Charlton 'Wag' Haw https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205209542 RAF airmen wearing Russian arctic clothing at Vaenga. Third from the left is Flight-Sergeant C "Wag" Haw of No. 81 squadron RAF, the top-scoring RAF pilot in Russia with three victories. NO. 151 WING ROYAL AIR FORCE OPERATIONS IN Russia, SEPTEMBER-NOVEMBER 1941. © IWM (CR 217) IWM Non Commercial License

Shipping aircraft to the Soviet Union was big effort, overpainting markings while preparing them is not. The overpaints were not always done very well or neatly, and could just use one colour to remove the roundels, and it's fresh paint, so shows up. There is a colour pic of salvaged ex RAF Airacobra where the underwing roundel has been painted out crudely in black! My working is theory is the only ones in British markings were leftover from 151 wing, I know there is a Finnish report of encountering a Hurricane in British markings, but that is the only report I have heard of, and it's the right area to encounter an ex 151 wing aircraft. My personal suspicion for the use of profiles showing overpaint with Soviet colours is just plain old repetition without thought. Or paying attention. And Z5252. Which are THE photo everyone knows, being used since the war, What seems to get lost is this. Z5252 is famous as it was the first Hurricane handed over to the VVS, by 151 wing, an RAF unit in Russia. "Hurricane O1 Z5252 which was presented to Major-General A A Kuznetzov, Soviet commanding officer in the region" https://lend-lease.net/articles-en/hawker-hurricane-iib-trop-z5252/ In particular, note the underwing roundel, you can see the blue ring showing, and the white section is the same tone, implying an overpaint with with Sky, by the British for the handover. The fuselage and fin show a what is likely is fresh Dark Green applied. Frustratingly I have never seen a decent image of Z5252 underwing after being pulled out of the lake the best we have is the upperwing which shows the upperwing roundel has been painted out. I'd forgotten about the fin... Somewhere there is a decent photo of these are Z5252 has been semi restored and is on display, though the roundel paint, and what covered it has since fallen off.... from https://igor113.livejournal.com/1807456.html I don't know that it is in Russia. @Geoffrey Sinclair ? Did Z3675 have a major accident in the UK? I know the photo is in Polish Wings #4, but I can't read the caption. I also have never seen use of that film type, showing yellow as a very dark colour on any Soviet or German photo. There are a few VVS images that are undoubtedly VVS repaints, I started a thread on these on Sovietwarplanes but it was at a time when the site was playing up and and I was having difficulty posting and editing. https://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/board/index.php?topic=2587.0 I see the pics are not at the moment showing. I also tracked down why you have FU-56/Z4017, with the white wing patches..... film clip? Yes, common problem. There are VVS IIC images, a handful, but none showing markings... including ones of a desert finished Hurricane which is clearly a IIC..... Soviet Hurricane Aces seems to be very well researched, and IIRC it is said that a IIC can be seen in the background of one of those famous 78 IAP images http://ava.org.ru/iap/78m.htm possibly this one http://ava.org.ru/iap/78m/sgibnev-1.jpg better seen here, they really look like cannons http://ava.org.ru/iap/78m/sgibnev.jpg Of course.... no clearly visible markings! There maybe 78 IAP records of serials, which is weird, as out of the about 3,000 Hurricanes the VVS got (Yes, nearly a fifth of Hurricane production ended up with the VVS for those new to all this) several hundred were IIC models. I can't recall the exact figure. @Geoffrey Sinclair ? Anyway, a very very fascinating subject which has been of interest ever since I got a copy of Red Stars Vol.1 back the the early 80's!

Thanks, but a profile artist I like a photo to back up drawing.... Any idea how the old Microscale sheet is? https://www.scalemates.com/kits/microscale-72-206-grumman-f9-f-2-panthers--588686 TIA

this one? Not sure why a German site is sticking watermarks on one from a US Navy site now there's a surprise! OK, that answers my questions very well, thank you. Another, which might need a separate thread, the numbers/letters are the standard 445 degree corner type? Any idea what the actual sizes of the various one are, just Techmod do a sheet Though it may just be easier to get some new decals...

this is correct. But the model is not a K, to be fair, when tooled exactly what a K looked like was unclear. So much so that after this Heller tooled up a new kit that was a K-4, which was the first kit that got the distinctive features. https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235084634-229-messerschmitt-bf109k/ The reason is for many years what a K looked liked was not actually understood. a good idea of this can be found in the 1966 Aircraft in Profile monograph, scanned here https://boxartden.com/reference/gallery/index.php/Aircraft-Profiles/Germany/WWII/Messerschmitt-Bf109G-Gustav Late war 109's are a very complex area that has been becoming both clearer and more confusing as research continues! There is a potted history of this in the first link. Hartmann's personal markings. On a long career, he flew numerous Bf109's, but apparently never a K there are 6 posts on Hartmann here https://falkeeins.blogspot.com/search/label/Erich Hartmann which you may find interesting. anyway, neat crisp build and an excellent paint finish

Google is not giving me much joy. specifically this scheme, that seems very popular, being in the old AMT kit, Hasegawa, Superscale https://modelingmadness.com/scott/decals/super/48th/ss481183.htm and then Hobby Boss 307/D I have seen various Bu. Nos listed as well, but despite various searches, no photos or more info is emerging. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VFA-143 " On 4 February 1953, the squadron was redesignated VF-123 and transitioned to the F9F-2 Panther" so questions Any photos of 307/D? Was used in Korea? Thank you

Hmm, may not be straightforward. I had a conversation with @iang and he mentioned that the interiors varied depending on where/when built. Maybe worth saying exactly what airframe you are looking at doing. He would be a good place to start on the internals, but AFAIK brick red fuel tanks are one with a self sealing covering, which may not be on an early Swordfish. re aluminium dope, AFAIK it's just a fine aluminium powder in lacquer base. this is aluminium dope inside of the unrestored Hurricane at Tikkakoski, included as it shows red oxide dope bleeding through the fabric, relevant to a Swordfish. note most of the structure visible to the right after the green, section and the metal tube is wood, painted with aluminium dope(paint) HTH

given the 72nd kit, it will be the B wing and fill the outer gun hatches. Easy in 72nd. Re the VVS Hurricanes, VVS regunning parts. Neat. This is a first. Hurrican soviet armament layout by losethekibble, on Flickr note dimensions from centre line, and the asymmetric fit of the guns in each wing, being slightly further outboard in the port wing. This why the new underwing panels are different. Hurricane VVS armament plan view by losethekibble, on Flickr The use of Soviet green and underwing, blue, overpaints I'm mostly dubious about, Images of 21 are here, along with 02, http://ava.org.ru/iap/3gm.htm AFAIK the usual practice was for the RAF markings to be removed before delivery and red stars applied spitfire roundel paint out Abadan 43 by losethekibble, on Flickr Spitfires in Iran being prepared. I have only ever seen a profile of this, infact, I have never seen a clear photo of VVS IIC in squadron use where the markings are visible, though they had 100's of them. a giveaway for British applied red stars is their position. VVS standard was 6 stars, underwing, fuselage, vertical tail British applied red stars are underwing, fuselage, upperwing, they have missed an opportunity here VVS made airfilter seen here as well on 96 @Bigos @GrzeM @Wojtek Bulhak

there are not that many aircraft, and Trumpy will have just picked what they can find online famous image showing very weathered paint, this shows the lighter "Sky" spinners and band. Claims to be Feb 41? from here https://www.worldwarphotos.info/gallery/uk/raf/whirlwind/ the decals are worthless @PatG White Sq codes and wrong roundel colours. Useless stencils. Fantasy instrument panel. Serials should both be 8 inch. Roundels can be found, maybe worth asking if anyone has leftover decals from a Classic Airframes kit, as both issues of that kit came with two options, so they are out there is decal file land

I'd check. Certainly in ww2 you got "fined" a round of drinks for forgetting to raise your flaps. The chap who would know is @NAVY870 HTH

Sky Sky undersides or equivalent. Trumpy have no idea. Often the bands are different colour, sometimes Sky Blue, sometimes just different or poorly mixed paint. The Whirlwind chap is @brewerjerry

plus, pitot, mirror, which was tiny to clean up and fun to fit, I skipped the front sight. Aerial wire from daughters hair off hairbrush. Boy that was fun to do ..... cannons are XF-85 rubber black and the highlighted with a 2B pencil Barrel tips are the covers used. Seen here on a Typhoon Hawker Typhoon by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr Hopefully will get to my IPMS meet tonight, so did some pics in case of accidents! pushed stuff about on desk, bit of Faller grass matt daughter insisted on buying years ago, on a box, and a blue paper folder shoved behind, overhead desk light, This is just as shot, no crop! 20240229_163955 by losethekibble, on Flickr bit further back and cropped 20240229_163627 by losethekibble, on Flickr and with the hairdryer.... (great for speeding paint drying) and cropped 20240229_164038 by losethekibble, on Flickr I'll try for some better pics when it's a dirty grey out there, and raining.... thanks for reading and commenting cheers T

AFAIK they are greyer than you usually think of for tyres, perhaps emphasized by the gloss black hub. https://history.evonik.com/en/inventions/buna "Buna is a synthetic rubber, which is available in a wide range of products today. It was originally used exclusively in the tire industry. The trade name "Buna" stands for the starting materials butadiene and sodium (Natrium). The first commercial production plant for synthetic rubber started operation in 1937 at I.G. Farbenindustrie's Schkopau facility. In the same year I.G. Farben won a "Grand Prix" for development of synthetic rubber at the World Exhibition in Paris." album of period Luftwaffe colour https://www.flickr.com/photos/143513596@N02/albums/72157699318318751/ HTH

you need to PM, private message, the admins, or the boss @Mike

Good indepth article, I was after some Vallejo mixes. I find a Vallejo base and an oil wash, and a vallejo highlights drybrush is pretty simple anyway.... 2024-02-28_08-38-56 by losethekibble, on Flickr Gear on, cannons on. mix of MEK and tube glue, and letting this set overnight, hence being in the tape rolls. Tail wheel on too. Also visible are the oil stains I did last night, but not the exhaust, and on the left the touched up 5, which even looks reasonable on zoom, very careful brushwork, I've been getting good results out Vallejo (black) and Tamiya (Grey) though the Vallejo is the easier to use. this is the broken 5 that I started with. 20240222_020646 by losethekibble, on Flickr So, tomorrow should be paint cannons, add aerial +wire, oil stains on gear doors. ref pic, note how the oil blows across the bottom edge of the UC doors. BD867 underside by losethekibble, on Flickr I'll skip the cannon smoke as I presume the IAC didn't do masses of gunnery Underside images of wartime Hurricanes where you can this amount of detail are very rare, oddly enough this is from that famous sequence of 3 Sq images but does not seem to be everywhere, even though it was a wartime recognition card, image found on ebay. Given the lack of deposits I wonder if the outer starboard cannon had jammed? Thanks for reading and commenting.

No Idea, the further you get from WW2 the less I know..... I assume that the RAL colours I mention are their FS 595 'equivalents' of these? I just googled NATO RAL and got the above. They look like the 3 colours used on a Leopard, which I assume use RAL and not FS 595, something I got cheap years ago as practice armour kit, which is the only reason I had a vague idea about the colours in the pic. The OP said this, which is why I went down the NATO RAL route. @Casey got a call to see IF the 3 were standard, could the picture be used to identify the mystery light green? Just another random paint thread which dragged me in I'm afraid.

A dangerous plan..... it's a really good one for different country options so I get the appeal of amassing them idea..... In fact years ago, a discount place was selling the Revell reissue of the Heller Vampire, cheap, like £3 each, and there was also a discount code over a certain spend, and I was Hmm, that would be a good project I ended up getting 13 which worked out at something £2.36 a pop.... I've not even finished one, getting it all aligned was bugging me and I put off doing it and life got in the way, but do have various decals, if ever get round to getting the production line going!

only some vac canopies yellow, I've never noticed injection ones doing so, and then you can go hunting for a Frogspawn one and have a canopy for it Be interesting to see how you get on, AFAIK outline wise it is good, better than the more modern kit, Dragon? cheers T

Yes, when they work... big kid time... 2024-02-28_03-47-41 by losethekibble, on Flickr Got the prop to spin freely when blown... at last. Multitude of small jobs done, including repainting the spinner after dealing with sink marks, visible in previous post, added walkway strips from an Airfix Hurricane sheet I have a spare of (visible above) painting the wheel hubs again to do the slots, back and forth with black and aluminium paint... it looks better than a plain alu disc but not in macro. While the alu was out did the tip lights. Another coat of matt, canopy gaps filled with PVA and cleaned up and paint touch up. So I even did some exhaust (pastel chalk in lighter fuel, dabbed on) and oil stains, (oil paint, burnt umber and black, streaked with LF ) as the pic from starboard shows a fair exhaust stain. So, aerial, aerial wire, cannon barrels, UC, tailwheel and inevitable touch ups. dab of Kleer on lights, Done? agreed, it's really grown on me. I've also been chipping away at my Churchill and commander, and playing with the Afrika Korps chap, keep forgetting to take the book up with me to check for equipment colours Been puzzling on tanned Caucasian flesh and how a lot of the Vallejo skin tones just make you look like you've been tangoed... thanks for reading and commenting.