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Troy Smith

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Posts posted by Troy Smith

  1. 1 hour ago, AdrianMF said:

    I've never run across a Koster vacform but the detail on the exterior and interior is amazing.

    Bill Koster had worked for Monogram in the 70's I believe.   I have 3 of his kits, a Nell, A-20 Havoc and Ju-88 that is really impressive for the amount of versions, IIRC a A, D, G, S and T can be done.

    I did mean to order some kits years ago but never did which was a shame as I wanted  his XP-47H and XP-72 conversions.

    The Ju-88 came off @SafetyDad  cheap, as injection kits have made it 'obsolete' 

    The panel lines are a bit heavy is the main issue. 

    AFAIK all the kits he did were 1/48th,  i was fortunate enough to get his B-24 nose job set from the last order I made with Collectakit,  which fixes the split seams on the Monogram turrets and allows other versions to be made.   I also have a similar P-38 set as well.

     

    Impressive work @LorenSharp  :goodjob:

    • Thanks 1
  2. 37 minutes ago, Paul Repcik said:

    Thanks for the responses.   There is a picture of the aircraft in the Osprey book Hurricane Aces 41-45.  Unfortunately tough to tell the color of the band from a black and white photo.  The aircraft I'm modeling is DU - K, serial number Z3437.

     

    Regards

    Paul

     

    AshampooSnap2017.07.2019h49m45s004.png

     

    Caption is wrong, as this shows aircraft after the switch from Temperate Land Scheme (Dark Green/Dark Earth over Sky, which would be Sky by this point) to Day Fighter Scheme, Dark Green Ocean Grey over Medium Sea Grey, though this looks to be a good candidate for a mixed grey, note the outline of Dark Earth remaining around the roundel. 

    DFS changed the code letter colour from Med Sea Grey to Sky.    

     

    There maybe some more information about when exactly the photo was taken, which would pin down the colours used,  but Z3437 would have been in TLS prior to this photo, but from what I can see this is after the change from TLS to DFS.

     

    Brief aside, "Type S" refers to a smooth paint formulation,  which was the paint standard by 1941, ALL the colours used were Type S,  just for some reason Sky gets the type as added frequently.

     

     

    OK DK Decals show Z3437 as still in Temperate Land Scheme

    55647_72122.jpg

     

    the same image above is in this in better quality.  There is also a close up of Kucera in the cockpit with one kill marking, which looks to be TLS. 

    this one, less cropped but not by much, the edge of the K is just visible.

    AshampooSnap2017.07.2019h52m44s006.png

    _vyr_7908Hawker-Hurricane-1--dil-predek.

     

    Back to the Sky band colour,  given in the photo of Z3437, the code letters and band look a  very similar tone, I'd suggest just plain Sky.  You could use Sky Blue if like, it's possible but IMO less likely.

    The two photos are from here

    https://allspitfirepilots.org/pilots/1566

     

    which also has Z3437 in DFS

    AshampooSnap2017.07.2019h45m29s002.png

     

     

    and, as you are in the USA, you may not have seen this

    Hawker%20Hurricane%20Camo%20&%20Marks_Pa

    https://boxartden.com/reference/gallery/index.php/Camouflage-Markings/Hawker-Hurricane

     

    scanned in the link, and still the best run through of the main changes in camo and markings.

     

    HTH and makes sense.

    Any questions? 

    • Like 2
  3. 2 hours ago, Captain Slog said:

    I might have been thinking of Vallejo, they do an Insignia Blue. 

    do NOT trust Vallejo colour names to be what you hope they might be.   They tend to do this, call some random paint with a actual name, which inevitably causes confusion.  (eg Model Color Oxford Blue and Middle Stone, neither are anything like the British colours with these names)

     

    If you get on with enamels, and colour accuracy is of interest,  Colourcoats are the only company that actually seems to bother to do research to get them right.   It should be noted their owner @Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies is both a modeller and a poster here.

     

     

    Everything else varies in what they claim colours to be and what they are.  Many threads on here discussing this.   

     

    IMO it's a not very funny joke as to how many of the "matches" sold are not very good,  in particular the Spanish acrylic companies, Vallejo, AK and Mig Ammo are  serious offenders in this area.

     

    Why?  These blog posts by Soveriegn Hobbies are well worth reading, in particular about use of existing paint standards to match older ones

    https://www.sovereignhobbies.co.uk/blogs/sovereign-about-us-research-and-development/references-how-to-tell-the-good-from-the-bad

     

    https://www.sovereignhobbies.co.uk/blogs/sovereign-about-us-research-and-development/research-and-development-fs-ral-bs

     

    Anyway,  you have a list of possible from the work that @Casey  has put in,  so you should be able to find something very close from that data.

     

    HTH

     

     

     

     

     

    • Thanks 1
  4. 2 hours ago, Paul Repcik said:

     The references I have (Valiant, Osprey) show Sky S for the band color.   

    I'd not trust anything in Valiant without checking elsewhere.  Osprey?  Which one?

    If you can give serial and code I'll have a look.

    Serial will give an idea of the "Sky" was factory applied.

    Note, DK Decals do actually bother to ask about schemes.

    It should also be noted that colour images show both Sky Blue bands and spinners, and Sky that just is slightly different, as on variation between factory and MU or unit level application.

    HTH 

    • Like 1
  5. 4 hours ago, Captain Slog said:

    I have some Tamiya insignia blue, but this looks a long way from the black decals. Can any of you suggest what colour would be the correct one. 

    Tamiya don't do an insignia blue, if using Tamiya it's mix.  @Casey has done various ANA mixes.

    I'll add in link if I find it before you get an answer

    • Thanks 1
  6. On 11/03/2024 at 17:20, Denford said:

    An enlarged rudder was the only readily visible difference of the XVlll and some later low backed XlV's . 

    The XVIII wing externally has outer gun bay panelling removed, and a equipment bay added.

    see

     

    this is still a very useful discussion on the two rudders, and how the fin differs, and where they were used

     

    @Denford  you likely will have seen these in the past,  but just in case, and of use to others reading this who perhaps will not have seen these before.

     

    HTH

  7. On 22/02/2024 at 07:04, Tomas Enerdal said:

    Just out of habit I checked a little more and found the there are several earlier Mk.I that seem to lack it. Bentley notes on his plans that "Oil filler cap not on early aircraft".

    Re L1592,  was restored by Hawkers in the 1950s, and served in Training Command.  

    On 22/02/2024 at 07:04, Tomas Enerdal said:

    Slightly to my surprise the Wingleader Photo Archive No.3 does not mention it.

    Good as it is, they don't mention everything. 

    On 22/02/2024 at 07:04, Tomas Enerdal said:

     

    Is there anything known when in production this was introduced? 

    I don't know.  @tango98  may.

    Again my cynicism of it not being a Spitfire.    Would require scouring photos I suspect.

    Also, I wonder what survives and is in the production records,  it maybe just  no nerdy modeller types have tracked these down, as opposed to the Spitfire type documents that periodically get quoted on here about when a modification came in.

     

    1 hour ago, Dave Fleming said:

    but the second video in this set from IWM has an interesting segment of a Hurricane being painted from Desert scheme to (presumably) TLS. No masking!

    great find Dave.

    runs from 0.25 to 1.10.  

    The spraying of the inside if the UC door and leg is of note. 

    I presume underside being 

     

    also, 2.35-3.00,  aircraft park with a variety of roundels, mostly overpainted C type, but still Sky bands visible. Vengeances, Hurricans and P-47's

    Needs some screenshots, which I'm not about to do right now...

     

    cheers

    T

     

     

  8. 8 minutes ago, 72modeler said:

    Very interesting to see how the sub assemblies  came together, as well as how fast.

    It IS propaganda,  so cuts out all the lining everything up, and how long all the bits too too make.  

     

    Interesting to note how much of the internal wing structure is still painted post NMF, and the Neutral Gray ball turret.

     

    @tomprobert  @vppelt68

     

    12 minutes ago, 72modeler said:

    don't think I have seen it posted before,

    New too me. Great find.

    13 minutes ago, 72modeler said:

    We cold never come close to that in a month or even a year nowadays!

    Probably could if building B-17's, complex as they are, nothing like the complexity of modern tech. And the cash flow was on as well.   And we just don't (fortunately) need that amount of warplanes.

     

    Anyway, fascinating, and period color is always a treat,  thanks for sharing

    cheers

    T

     

    • Like 1
  9. On 10/03/2024 at 17:49, John said:

    It's been a very busy few weeks with not too much time at the bench, but I have managed to get some work done:

     

    La77

     

    I've used Humbrol 5 and 67 for the upper camouflage and 89 for the underside.

     

    Tail flash is Humbrol 69 and the cowling is 153.

     

    Much still to do.

     

    John

    Not yellow for tail flash

     

    Yellow was the Axis recognition colour,  the La-7 at Monino may or may not be Kozhedub's but white is far more likely.  

     

     

    1024px-Lavochkin_La-7_%E2%80%9927_white%

     

    By Alan Wilson from Stilton, Peterborough, Cambs, UK - Lavochkin La-7 ’27 white’, CC BY-SA 2.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=64800954

     

    Far more indepth discussion here

    https://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/la-7/la-7colors/27kozhedub/27kozhedub.htm

     

     

    The rest of your colours look believable though :)

     

    HTH

    • Like 2
    • Thanks 1
  10. 2 hours ago, Rabbit Leader said:

    I know many of you don't have Facebook accounts, however someone in the UK has posted photos of a shop called ‘Avicraft’ thats got two Novo Shell Welders and even one in an original battered Frog Box! .. So if there’s any other masochists on here tempted to build one, perhaps a visit to this place might fill your cravings! 

    is there a link?   Farcebook can be very difficult to find things on. 

    On 08/03/2024 at 11:56, Rabbit Leader said:

    and try each decal sheet until you find one that doesn’t explode once immersed in water! 

    Has anyone tried Microscale Liquid decal film on any?  I'm not sure I have any Novo kits with decals or I'd try it myself.

  11. 33 minutes ago, Solar Panel Phil said:

    but on checking the 1/48 plans within that publication the Airfix 1/48 appears a tad on the small side,

     

    34 minutes ago, Solar Panel Phil said:

    Measurements taken as parallel with the main spar the top wing overall length (one panel) is 13'.10 1/2" and the lower wing panel is 13'.10 3/8" The centre section is 24" wide. In front view the span is 29' 4" with no overlap.

    @John Aero   has not been on here since Nov 2020.

    Plans need to be treated with caution, and can easily be distorted or resized when printed.   I suggest getting a ruler out and checking against the actual dimensions given on the plans and the kit.

    I've not seen any wailing or gnashing of teeth over the Airfix Tiger Moth on here as well.

    HTH

     

    • Like 1
  12. 35 minutes ago, marvinneko said:

    Are these new paint colours? I'm too lazy to look them up.

    they are FS595 references

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Standard_595#FED-STD-595,_595A,_and_595B

    "Federal Standard 595 is the color description and communication system developed in 1956 by the United States government. Its origins reach back to World War II when a problem of providing exact color specifications to military equipment subcontractors in different parts of the world became a matter of urgency.

    Similarly to other color standards of the pre-digital era, such as RAL colour standard or British Standard 4800, Federal Standard 595 is a color collection rather than a color space. The standard is built upon a set of color shades where a unique reference number is assigned to each color. This collection is then printed on sample color chips and provided to interested parties. In contrast, modern color systems such as the Natural Color System (NCS) are built upon a color space paradigm, providing for much more flexibility and wider range of applications.

    Each color in the Federal Standard 595 range is identified by a five-digit code. The colors in the standard have no official names, just numbers."

     

    HTH

    • Like 2
  13. On 09/03/2024 at 12:43, Steve147 said:

    I'm looking to paint scheme 1, so it would help if someone could tell me what 'brown' (if it is brown) it is. The list of required paints does not give any 'brown', nor does it show what paint to use where on the final build, it just shows where to put the decals!

     

    1 hour ago, MODeller said:

    A good match for Foliage green is the US medium green ( Revell 148) and Dark earth (Rev 187) .

    53043000921_1eb468a24b_b.jpg20230713_142559 by losethekibble, on Flickr

     

    RAAF paint chips in a Red Roo P-39 book, with Vallejo, the Earth Brown is darker and more chocolate than RAF Dark Earth.

    the Foilage Green is matched to US Medium green, a blue hued dark green.  Mine was a mix of Vallejo

    Note Sky Blue is a very pale blue grey, a green rather than purple blue.

     

    there are not masses of RAAF P-43 pics

    a few here

    http://www.adf-gallery.com.au/index.php?/category/republic-lancer

     

    Build here, colours look good.

     

     

    I don't know of the pattern is a best guess based on photos or if there are records

    @Ed Russell  may have some suggestions

     

    HTH

  14. 40 minutes ago, flarpen said:

    With all this battering I highly doubt that PR will ever release a British subject again.

    It's a pity, I really wanted the venom.

    Well, I was under the impression PR made Swedish subjects,  the Vampire being used by them, as was the Venom.

     

    If anyone from Pilot Replicas reads this,  they should be aware that there are plenty of very knowledgeable enthusiasts who will off help and information, hint for the Venom, ask @NAVY870  Steve has assisted Airfix in the past IIRC.  Being a modeller also helps. 

     

    I know of other members here who have provided input,  and are happy to do so as better kits for all are the end product.   

     

    3 hours ago, Red Dot said:

    What i am saying is that no model is perfect, ever.

    No one says their is, but it is the degree of imperfection being discussed.   

     

    Pilot Replicas are enthusiasts,  surely a good starting point is to see what other kits there are and how they look, and what the consensus on errors they have is.

    Did no-one there have a recent Airfix Vampire, which has been very well received by modellers who know,  as the main wing and boom are common to all Vampires AFAIK the wing profile and shape should have been caught.

     

    As I suggest above, ask people.   Someone who is familiar with the type looking over CAD images may well have avoided the errors being discussed.

     

    Most of what I have read on here is disappointment from those who want a Vampire trainer and not have to do a load of remedial work.

     

    Next will be to see how 'fixable' the kit is and how much effort it requires.

     

    Just now, neilh said:

    But it's only focused attention from a relatively small number of individuals who post here on Britmodeller. Just think how many modellers you see at SMW every year and even that is a smaller subset of those who take up this hobby just in the UK. Sure, maybe 20-30 less sales from the BM readers who (quite fairly) won't accept the errors

    I was talking to a model club friend, BM is now possibly THE English language model site,  so while the active posters are small in number,  those searching up information are likely to find this and decide from there.  The poster to lurker ratio on here is high.

    There are plenty of modellers who happily exist elsewhere.

    4 minutes ago, neilh said:

    I may still buy one, as there isn't anything better out there at the moment and who knows if there will be in my lifetime.  

    keep an eye out for the Aeroclub kit, or ask for leftovers,  as it had 3 sets of fuselage pods and booms,  for the single seater, Night fighter and trainer, so there are spares of these parts in spare box land, and it maybe easier to add leftover Aeroclub parts to an Airfix base kit?

     

    7 minutes ago, neilh said:

    but given how dreadful the Hobbycraft kits were and the newer equally dreadful Trumpeter kit, both of which still sell regularly on E Bay and both of which I see regularly on display built up at UK shows

    Depends on how fussed people are, I see plenty of cobblers written about things all the time on other parts of the net.

    As an aside, I recently spotted a Kitech Vampire for sale,  which explains where the Hobbycraft Vampires ended up, along with some other Hobbycraft moulds, which were floating about cheap 12-15 years ago and have now pretty much disappeared, unlike other HC kit which ended up with Academy.

    • Like 3
  15. 4 hours ago, Artie said:

    I've been given an Academy Spitfire Mk.XIVc in 1/48 scale kit as a present. 

    Someone who didn't like you :rofl2:

    4 hours ago, Artie said:

    I have an Aeroclub 1/48 scale Spitfire FR.Mk.XVIII7XIV (K834) conversion in my stash since can't remember when.........

    Would it be too difficult to correct the Academy's nose, using the Aeroclub kit as a donor?

    I've read reams of tosh on the Academy kit.   It's main problem is the entire fuselage is too deep, and also the wing is too thick, and it's also too broad in the centre, and slightly too far back.  And apart from the oversize nose ring, the Airfix Spit XII and Seafire XVII have the same faults)

     

    You can graft a new nose on,  which does not fix the rest of the issues, and requires making good and a resribe  but you'd better off adding a high spine to the Aeroclub fuselage.   And if you are prepared to do that surgery, there is another way.

     

    The nose ring can be fixed

    slices into it, and the size can be pulled in, note the slice to pull the lower edge up.  This shows an unmodified wing too thick at the root, 8mm, should 7mm IIRC,  but shows how thinning the wing will create a new lower line.

    48952682391_05e14f53e7_c.jpgSpit academy nose mod DSCF0709_zpssziaklh8 by losethekibble, on Flickr

     

    all of these have been laid onto the cutting mat carefully, to show the shape changes

     

    the fuselage and wing depth, this is the Academy vs the Aeroclub fuselage

    bottom left Academy as is, top right, is the Academy with pulled in nose ring, and the slice to bring lower cowl line up. 

    Note the exhaust slot is too low, and has been moved up.  The rocker bulge will need adjusting.    You will need to redo some panel lines, and the fasteners. 

    Tip, you can make a scribing template for the angled fuel tank by using the separate tank in the Airfix XIV as a template. 

    48964569707_42e7814c58_b.jpg50620904 by losethekibble, on Flickr

     

    wing trimmed, you need to take about 1 mm out the leading edge to thin it, which will bring it up the new lower cowl line. Note the wing has been moved forward.  The rear fillet has not been trimmed, pencil line shows position of rear trailing edge.

    48963842493_8f94eb28a9_b.jpg50620908 by losethekibble, on Flickr

     

     

    this shows a modified Academy in front of the unmodified, if you zoom you can see orange marker on the rear fuselage to show the difference, IIRC the high back Academy spine is also slightly too high.

    48963837748_7493330924_b.jpg50620907 by losethekibble, on Flickr

     

    wing

     the white wing is an ICM, right shape,  

    48965058131_871fb02178_b.jpg50620909 by losethekibble, on Flickr

     

    right wing has been adjusted, refer to mat lines, note you need to fill and rescribe the flap lines,  and adjust the aileron, and do some work on the wheel wells.

    48965237742_796b05645a_b.jpg50620911 by losethekibble, on Flickr

     

    You could instead a ICM wing if easier,

     

     

    Why bother?  Amazingly the panel lines are nearly all in the right places, and are fine.  I have gone for using as much modified Academy parts as possible.  Yes, nearly all of it needs tweaking.

     

    You will need a new spinner, the kit one I could not fix.... I tried!   

    if you have made an Airfix Seafire 47 you will have a leftover  spinner you can use.  The Academy blades are OK.

     

    The radiators need work,  right now I can't recall, but compare to the Airfix XIV, as this is really good on shape and these details.

     

    Or, go wild and get a Barracudacast set of rocker covers and replacement prop.    Much use can be made of leftover Eduard parts.  

     

    None of the above is really difficult, and you can use a decent kit as 3-D guide.    I got the main bits done and then never got round to the rest.

     

     

    4 hours ago, Artie said:

    Given the fact Airfix has blessed us with their excellent Mk.XIV and XVIII kits, and AFAIK theyi`re not going to offer a "high spine", early Mk.XIVc kit, I was wondering about the idea of taking advantage of what already is in my stash.

    Which is why I refer to other bits....

    4 hours ago, Artie said:

    The other option would be building the Academy kit straight OOB, and live with that.......

    It actually look OK as long as it's not next to a correctly shaped kit, then it looks bloated.

     

    I hope this makes sense?   I spent a good while working this all out and cross referencing against the Cooke drawings and other kits know to be good.

     

    Questions?

     

    HTH

     

    • Like 1
  16.  

    9 hours ago, B0BY_1234567 said:

    I'm just a little confused regarding the greys in the DFS. 

     

    the post linked by @JackG  will give as good answer as you will get.

     

    Acrylic model paint makers seem to have a great deal of difficulty matching the MAP paint standard.

     

    Medium Sea Grey is one of a family of Sea Greys,  they have subtle purple-blue hue to them.   Various model paints tend to be an olive or brown hued grey. 

     

    Ocean Grey has a slight green hue to it, it's not obvious as tends to appear 'blueish' when next to Dark Green.

    53530683561_8b3a7c6945_b.jpg

     

    Taken in direct sunlight, to my eye the Ocean Grey is dead on, the camera thinks otherwise.

     

    I made up mixes with Tamiya to the MAP chart,  and others as well,  which made me appreciate how carefully these colours were chosen,  they change subtly in different light conditions. 

     

    9 hours ago, B0BY_1234567 said:

     

    I normally paint my models with Vallejo Model Air paints as I have really come to enjoy their "feel" when brush painting.

    If you use Model Color you get more paint, as they need thinning.   Model Air are a bit watery for brush work I find.

     

    HTH

  17. 12 hours ago, dogsbody said:

    I've never read anything that mentioned it.

     

    It has been mentioned on here before occasionally, but not with any conclusion.

    Best guess is they are Belgian made replacements, exhaust pipes burn out and they made aircraft under licence so the facilities were there.

    HTH 

     

    • Like 3
  18. On 08/03/2024 at 17:22, SebTartar said:

    This is what the AK Real Color brown and blue grey look like side by side:

    53575198456_180a0a248c_c.jpg

    For info, the jar behind the wing is Tamiya XF52 Flat Earth.

     

    I still think both colours look odd.

    The blue-grey is given for RAL5008 but RAL5008 should be dulle. There should be more grey.

    The brown should be paler, more like tan.

     

    I welcome you opinions and advice.

     

    RAL 5008 is a very dark grey blue

    RAL 8008 is described as olive brown,  the chip is slightly green brown,  olive brown is good description.

     

    It's hard to give recommendations without knowing what you have access too to what paint brands, or what you like?

    I found a Vallejo Model Color that was close to the chip, I'd need  dig it out

    I had to mix the grey-blue.

     

    The chips are semi gloss, so my mixes maybe on the dark side, 

     

    I'll @Casey  to see if she has any suggestions,  

     

    AK are not noted for being very good on colour matches though  :fraidnot:

     

     

    That ejector seat look fantastic!  

    HTH

     

    • Thanks 1
  19. On 02/03/2024 at 04:59, Quailane said:

    But a closer look at the box art did indeed show a P-51H in US Air Force marking dogfighting a Fw-190! Odd. Oh well.

    as you note, 1956. 

    It's just box art.  

    The P51H didn't serve in Korea either. 

    On 02/03/2024 at 04:59, Quailane said:

    The only problem now is that there aren't any available spare pieces to fix anything wrong on the P-51H. I will add some seat belts and P-51D stencils, but that is probably it.

    I'd not bother.  

    On 02/03/2024 at 04:59, Quailane said:

     

    As for the markings, I will leave the original molded-in markings. It is too much hassle to do anything else. I just hope I have some paint that matches the US Air Force roundel.

    With this kind of kit, unless you really really want a lot of work, then a proper nostalgia build is the way to go,  Any dark blue and red will be fine, 

    @TonyW  is very good at the sort build.

    If you have time have a read of this thread

     

    Plenty of inspiration, 

    I'd suggest building the main parts, doing the silver with a spray can, and then do the raised markings with a fine brush and steady hand.

     

    or getting a pin and a candle and making the bullet holes like the box art :rofl2:

     

     

    also, see this in particular

    https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235028263-nostalgia-its-not-what-it-used-to-be/page/3/#elControls_2854490_menu

     

     

     

    also for a build

    https://www.oldmodelkits.com/blog/classic-plastic-model-kit-reviews/mustang-madness-an-aurora-p-51-classic-build/

     

    HTH

    • Like 4
  20. Hurricane%20Mk.IIc%20HL887%20discussion%

    52 minutes ago, Tomasz Gronczewski said:

    Area behind the cockpit (the red arrow). It is dark and it seems to suggest that HL887 left Hawker factory in Langley in a TLS or DFS and later repainted in an MU in Britain or in Egypt.

    possibly shadow

    note light angle, very bright, from low angle and to the rear. 

    compare,  light source is slightly lower

    60a836afc4a0cd6395f6a88bb4b409c3.jpg

     

    same plane

    Gleed-portrait2-opt%5B1%5D.jpg

     

    Hurricane_XII_BE485_AE-W_of_RCAF_No_402.

     

     

    note the effect of bright sun on the canopy frame shadow

    45981916154_44fce2ee52_b.jpgHurricane HW189 head armour by losethekibble, on Flickr

     

    1 hour ago, Tomasz Gronczewski said:

    The darker camouflage colours on the nose and under the "AK" letters seem to be darker than the rear dark areas (green arrows). The Hurricane HL887 did not serve in any other squadron before being delivered to 213 Sqn in late September/ early October 1942, and I can find not a single piece of information in Operations Book of 213 Sqn that it was ever damaged before the end of Operation "Chocolate". So why this strange darker overpaint could be done if not because of the intention to change a colour? I dont't know.

    possible damage repair before delivery to the squadron?   

    The darker nose possibles are paint vs fabric, and fuel or oil staining,  there is a filler port here,  and panels removed were often cleaned by wiping with an oily cloth, sometimes just giving an even film making  the panel  visibly darker, as seen here.  Note also the exhaust deposit, again this was regularly wiped off, but on a removed panel could make it then slightly darker.

    49991141187_c36b6429e8_b.jpg

     

    another example

    Hawker-Hurricane-I-RAF-17Sqn-YBJ-N2359-S

     

    note the darker removable panel with YB on it, likely wiped over when off aircraft, this was the one removed for oxygen and radio access,  and giving it an even smear of exhaust gunk and oil.

     

    Same thing on this Spitfire, the underwing gun access hatches, removed, on ground and wiped over and replaced.

    Spitfire-MkIa-RAF-66Sqn-LZN-Sqn-Ldr-Rupe

     

    cheers

    T

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  21. 17 minutes ago, PatG said:

    so was the colour changed at some point or is it a trick of the light/camera exposure etc. etc

    the 3 photos of AN-V are all taken within minutes of each other,  at the same time as the film I linked too on youtube of them escorting Boston's, so it's just an effect.  Note the pilot is keeping an eye on the camera plane in all these. 

     

    ONe thing that spending time mixing paint to match the RAF Museum MAP chips is great respect for how carefully the colours were picked, the subtle colour hues in them are very important.

    Dark Earth has a subtle greeness which few model paints replicate.

     

    I think there is colour film of the Boston's as well,  I'd have to have a hunt for that.

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  22. 46 minutes ago, fubar57 said:

    Just to put my mind at ease, right roundel repainted with filter colour?

    possibly?  I'd not though hugely about it, more about the other paint variations.

    I'll @Casey as might be of interest,

     

    one other that has caused discussion and confusion on here before, note fuselage roundel compared to wing and tail!

    4674411354_2790711cd1_b.jpgSpitfire boneyard. by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr

     

    as well as the dark blue gun patches, colour of removed seat and zinc chromate(?) primer on wing root, grey green(?) inside of flaps.

    "Supermarine Spitfire JG726/`AN-L' of No 417 Squadron, Royal Canadian Air Force being cannibalized for parts at Gabes. The aircraft was scrapped after colliding with a Hudson during take-off on 19 April 1943."

     

    JG726 Vc CBAF M46 9MU 11-12-42 222MU 24-12-42 'Inchanga' 11-1-43 Takoradi 7-2-43 Middle East 14-3-43 417Sq 'AN-L' Hit Hudson FK385 on t/o Goubrine CB 19-4-43 FLt WJ Whiteside (RCAF) safe

    http://www.airhistory.org.uk/spitfire/p048.html

     

    2527331399_92e2a7697a_b.jpgSpitfire Vb...............SAAF by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr

    this really for the Light Mediterranean Blue (?) gun patches, yellow leading edge and the SAAF orange.

     

    http://www.airhistory.org.uk/spitfire/p042.html

    ER622 Vb CBAF M46 6MU 30-9-42 222MU 13-10-42 'Ocean Courage' 7-11-42 Takoradi 7-12-42 NWAfrica 601Sq 225Sq 15-4-44 40SAAF 'WR-D' [SOC 30-4-43] Turkey 22-2-45

     

    Thanks to @Etiennedup

     

     

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  23. 10 minutes ago, Tomasz Gronczewski said:

    Of course, when HL887 was delivered to Egypt

    I have an overseas date of 13 July 1942.    @Geoffrey Sinclair  May have more.

    13 minutes ago, Tomasz Gronczewski said:

    OK, it is a long string of my pure speculations, but it's all we have to consider the tropical camouflage of HL887 at all.

    But interesting reasoned speculation.   

    Testing ideas and sifting data can turn up the new connections.  Interesting to see the logic behind the scheme, though the 3 tone uppers I find a jump too far, simply as it just at odds with what I know about RAF aircraft painting practice. 

     

    Perhaps @Paul Lucas may add some comments. 

     

    cheers

    T

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  24. 10 minutes ago, Tomasz Gronczewski said:

    Maybe I will calmly present my rationale, but I would have to carefully prepare the arguments.

    Hi Tomasz

    Always of interest to see theories explained and examined,  it is how we learn and the hobby evolves, and glad my comments and images were taken in the way intended, as a discussion and debate, because if I am going to disagree, then I need to explain why,   and hopefully of interest to others seeing the model.

     

    cheers

    T

     

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