Troy Smith

Caption is wrong, as this shows aircraft after the switch from Temperate Land Scheme (Dark Green/Dark Earth over Sky, which would be Sky by this point) to Day Fighter Scheme, Dark Green Ocean Grey over Medium Sea Grey, though this looks to be a good candidate for a mixed grey, note the outline of Dark Earth remaining around the roundel. DFS changed the code letter colour from Med Sea Grey to Sky. There maybe some more information about when exactly the photo was taken, which would pin down the colours used, but Z3437 would have been in TLS prior to this photo, but from what I can see this is after the change from TLS to DFS. Brief aside, "Type S" refers to a smooth paint formulation, which was the paint standard by 1941, ALL the colours used were Type S, just for some reason Sky gets the type as added frequently. OK DK Decals show Z3437 as still in Temperate Land Scheme the same image above is in this in better quality. There is also a close up of Kucera in the cockpit with one kill marking, which looks to be TLS. this one, less cropped but not by much, the edge of the K is just visible. Back to the Sky band colour, given in the photo of Z3437, the code letters and band look a very similar tone, I'd suggest just plain Sky. You could use Sky Blue if like, it's possible but IMO less likely. The two photos are from here https://allspitfirepilots.org/pilots/1566 which also has Z3437 in DFS and, as you are in the USA, you may not have seen this https://boxartden.com/reference/gallery/index.php/Camouflage-Markings/Hawker-Hurricane scanned in the link, and still the best run through of the main changes in camo and markings. HTH and makes sense. Any questions?

do NOT trust Vallejo colour names to be what you hope they might be. They tend to do this, call some random paint with a actual name, which inevitably causes confusion. (eg Model Color Oxford Blue and Middle Stone, neither are anything like the British colours with these names) If you get on with enamels, and colour accuracy is of interest, Colourcoats are the only company that actually seems to bother to do research to get them right. It should be noted their owner @Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies is both a modeller and a poster here. Everything else varies in what they claim colours to be and what they are. Many threads on here discussing this. IMO it's a not very funny joke as to how many of the "matches" sold are not very good, in particular the Spanish acrylic companies, Vallejo, AK and Mig Ammo are serious offenders in this area. Why? These blog posts by Soveriegn Hobbies are well worth reading, in particular about use of existing paint standards to match older ones https://www.sovereignhobbies.co.uk/blogs/sovereign-about-us-research-and-development/references-how-to-tell-the-good-from-the-bad https://www.sovereignhobbies.co.uk/blogs/sovereign-about-us-research-and-development/research-and-development-fs-ral-bs Anyway, you have a list of possible from the work that @Casey has put in, so you should be able to find something very close from that data. HTH

I'd not trust anything in Valiant without checking elsewhere. Osprey? Which one? If you can give serial and code I'll have a look. Serial will give an idea of the "Sky" was factory applied. Note, DK Decals do actually bother to ask about schemes. It should also be noted that colour images show both Sky Blue bands and spinners, and Sky that just is slightly different, as on variation between factory and MU or unit level application. HTH

Tamiya don't do an insignia blue, if using Tamiya it's mix. @Casey has done various ANA mixes. I'll add in link if I find it before you get an answer

The XVIII wing externally has outer gun bay panelling removed, and a equipment bay added. see this is still a very useful discussion on the two rudders, and how the fin differs, and where they were used @Denford you likely will have seen these in the past, but just in case, and of use to others reading this who perhaps will not have seen these before. HTH

Re L1592, was restored by Hawkers in the 1950s, and served in Training Command. Good as it is, they don't mention everything. I don't know. @tango98 may. Again my cynicism of it not being a Spitfire. Would require scouring photos I suspect. Also, I wonder what survives and is in the production records, it maybe just no nerdy modeller types have tracked these down, as opposed to the Spitfire type documents that periodically get quoted on here about when a modification came in. great find Dave. runs from 0.25 to 1.10. The spraying of the inside if the UC door and leg is of note. I presume underside being also, 2.35-3.00, aircraft park with a variety of roundels, mostly overpainted C type, but still Sky bands visible. Vengeances, Hurricans and P-47's Needs some screenshots, which I'm not about to do right now... cheers T

It IS propaganda, so cuts out all the lining everything up, and how long all the bits too too make. Interesting to note how much of the internal wing structure is still painted post NMF, and the Neutral Gray ball turret. @tomprobert @vppelt68 New too me. Great find. Probably could if building B-17's, complex as they are, nothing like the complexity of modern tech. And the cash flow was on as well. And we just don't (fortunately) need that amount of warplanes. Anyway, fascinating, and period color is always a treat, thanks for sharing cheers T

Not yellow for tail flash Yellow was the Axis recognition colour, the La-7 at Monino may or may not be Kozhedub's but white is far more likely. By Alan Wilson from Stilton, Peterborough, Cambs, UK - Lavochkin La-7 ’27 white’, CC BY-SA 2.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=64800954 Far more indepth discussion here https://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/la-7/la-7colors/27kozhedub/27kozhedub.htm The rest of your colours look believable though HTH

is there a link? Farcebook can be very difficult to find things on. Has anyone tried Microscale Liquid decal film on any? I'm not sure I have any Novo kits with decals or I'd try it myself.

@John Aero has not been on here since Nov 2020. Plans need to be treated with caution, and can easily be distorted or resized when printed. I suggest getting a ruler out and checking against the actual dimensions given on the plans and the kit. I've not seen any wailing or gnashing of teeth over the Airfix Tiger Moth on here as well. HTH

they are FS595 references https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Standard_595#FED-STD-595,_595A,_and_595B "Federal Standard 595 is the color description and communication system developed in 1956 by the United States government. Its origins reach back to World War II when a problem of providing exact color specifications to military equipment subcontractors in different parts of the world became a matter of urgency. Similarly to other color standards of the pre-digital era, such as RAL colour standard or British Standard 4800, Federal Standard 595 is a color collection rather than a color space. The standard is built upon a set of color shades where a unique reference number is assigned to each color. This collection is then printed on sample color chips and provided to interested parties. In contrast, modern color systems such as the Natural Color System (NCS) are built upon a color space paradigm, providing for much more flexibility and wider range of applications. Each color in the Federal Standard 595 range is identified by a five-digit code. The colors in the standard have no official names, just numbers." HTH

20230713_142559 by losethekibble, on Flickr RAAF paint chips in a Red Roo P-39 book, with Vallejo, the Earth Brown is darker and more chocolate than RAF Dark Earth. the Foilage Green is matched to US Medium green, a blue hued dark green. Mine was a mix of Vallejo Note Sky Blue is a very pale blue grey, a green rather than purple blue. there are not masses of RAAF P-43 pics a few here http://www.adf-gallery.com.au/index.php?/category/republic-lancer Build here, colours look good. I don't know of the pattern is a best guess based on photos or if there are records @Ed Russell may have some suggestions HTH

Well, I was under the impression PR made Swedish subjects, the Vampire being used by them, as was the Venom. If anyone from Pilot Replicas reads this, they should be aware that there are plenty of very knowledgeable enthusiasts who will off help and information, hint for the Venom, ask @NAVY870 Steve has assisted Airfix in the past IIRC. Being a modeller also helps. I know of other members here who have provided input, and are happy to do so as better kits for all are the end product. No one says their is, but it is the degree of imperfection being discussed. Pilot Replicas are enthusiasts, surely a good starting point is to see what other kits there are and how they look, and what the consensus on errors they have is. Did no-one there have a recent Airfix Vampire, which has been very well received by modellers who know, as the main wing and boom are common to all Vampires AFAIK the wing profile and shape should have been caught. As I suggest above, ask people. Someone who is familiar with the type looking over CAD images may well have avoided the errors being discussed. Most of what I have read on here is disappointment from those who want a Vampire trainer and not have to do a load of remedial work. Next will be to see how 'fixable' the kit is and how much effort it requires. I was talking to a model club friend, BM is now possibly THE English language model site, so while the active posters are small in number, those searching up information are likely to find this and decide from there. The poster to lurker ratio on here is high. There are plenty of modellers who happily exist elsewhere. keep an eye out for the Aeroclub kit, or ask for leftovers, as it had 3 sets of fuselage pods and booms, for the single seater, Night fighter and trainer, so there are spares of these parts in spare box land, and it maybe easier to add leftover Aeroclub parts to an Airfix base kit? Depends on how fussed people are, I see plenty of cobblers written about things all the time on other parts of the net. As an aside, I recently spotted a Kitech Vampire for sale, which explains where the Hobbycraft Vampires ended up, along with some other Hobbycraft moulds, which were floating about cheap 12-15 years ago and have now pretty much disappeared, unlike other HC kit which ended up with Academy.

Someone who didn't like you I've read reams of tosh on the Academy kit. It's main problem is the entire fuselage is too deep, and also the wing is too thick, and it's also too broad in the centre, and slightly too far back. And apart from the oversize nose ring, the Airfix Spit XII and Seafire XVII have the same faults) You can graft a new nose on, which does not fix the rest of the issues, and requires making good and a resribe but you'd better off adding a high spine to the Aeroclub fuselage. And if you are prepared to do that surgery, there is another way. The nose ring can be fixed slices into it, and the size can be pulled in, note the slice to pull the lower edge up. This shows an unmodified wing too thick at the root, 8mm, should 7mm IIRC, but shows how thinning the wing will create a new lower line. Spit academy nose mod DSCF0709_zpssziaklh8 by losethekibble, on Flickr all of these have been laid onto the cutting mat carefully, to show the shape changes the fuselage and wing depth, this is the Academy vs the Aeroclub fuselage bottom left Academy as is, top right, is the Academy with pulled in nose ring, and the slice to bring lower cowl line up. Note the exhaust slot is too low, and has been moved up. The rocker bulge will need adjusting. You will need to redo some panel lines, and the fasteners. Tip, you can make a scribing template for the angled fuel tank by using the separate tank in the Airfix XIV as a template. 50620904 by losethekibble, on Flickr wing trimmed, you need to take about 1 mm out the leading edge to thin it, which will bring it up the new lower cowl line. Note the wing has been moved forward. The rear fillet has not been trimmed, pencil line shows position of rear trailing edge. 50620908 by losethekibble, on Flickr this shows a modified Academy in front of the unmodified, if you zoom you can see orange marker on the rear fuselage to show the difference, IIRC the high back Academy spine is also slightly too high. 50620907 by losethekibble, on Flickr wing the white wing is an ICM, right shape, 50620909 by losethekibble, on Flickr right wing has been adjusted, refer to mat lines, note you need to fill and rescribe the flap lines, and adjust the aileron, and do some work on the wheel wells. 50620911 by losethekibble, on Flickr You could instead a ICM wing if easier, Why bother? Amazingly the panel lines are nearly all in the right places, and are fine. I have gone for using as much modified Academy parts as possible. Yes, nearly all of it needs tweaking. You will need a new spinner, the kit one I could not fix.... I tried! if you have made an Airfix Seafire 47 you will have a leftover spinner you can use. The Academy blades are OK. The radiators need work, right now I can't recall, but compare to the Airfix XIV, as this is really good on shape and these details. Or, go wild and get a Barracudacast set of rocker covers and replacement prop. Much use can be made of leftover Eduard parts. None of the above is really difficult, and you can use a decent kit as 3-D guide. I got the main bits done and then never got round to the rest. Which is why I refer to other bits.... It actually look OK as long as it's not next to a correctly shaped kit, then it looks bloated. I hope this makes sense? I spent a good while working this all out and cross referencing against the Cooke drawings and other kits know to be good. Questions? HTH

the post linked by @JackG will give as good answer as you will get. Acrylic model paint makers seem to have a great deal of difficulty matching the MAP paint standard. Medium Sea Grey is one of a family of Sea Greys, they have subtle purple-blue hue to them. Various model paints tend to be an olive or brown hued grey. Ocean Grey has a slight green hue to it, it's not obvious as tends to appear 'blueish' when next to Dark Green. Taken in direct sunlight, to my eye the Ocean Grey is dead on, the camera thinks otherwise. I made up mixes with Tamiya to the MAP chart, and others as well, which made me appreciate how carefully these colours were chosen, they change subtly in different light conditions. If you use Model Color you get more paint, as they need thinning. Model Air are a bit watery for brush work I find. HTH

It has been mentioned on here before occasionally, but not with any conclusion. Best guess is they are Belgian made replacements, exhaust pipes burn out and they made aircraft under licence so the facilities were there. HTH

RAL 5008 is a very dark grey blue RAL 8008 is described as olive brown, the chip is slightly green brown, olive brown is good description. It's hard to give recommendations without knowing what you have access too to what paint brands, or what you like? I found a Vallejo Model Color that was close to the chip, I'd need dig it out I had to mix the grey-blue. The chips are semi gloss, so my mixes maybe on the dark side, I'll @Casey to see if she has any suggestions, AK are not noted for being very good on colour matches though That ejector seat look fantastic! HTH

as you note, 1956. It's just box art. The P51H didn't serve in Korea either. I'd not bother. With this kind of kit, unless you really really want a lot of work, then a proper nostalgia build is the way to go, Any dark blue and red will be fine, @TonyW is very good at the sort build. If you have time have a read of this thread Plenty of inspiration, I'd suggest building the main parts, doing the silver with a spray can, and then do the raised markings with a fine brush and steady hand. or getting a pin and a candle and making the bullet holes like the box art also, see this in particular https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235028263-nostalgia-its-not-what-it-used-to-be/page/3/#elControls_2854490_menu also for a build https://www.oldmodelkits.com/blog/classic-plastic-model-kit-reviews/mustang-madness-an-aurora-p-51-classic-build/ HTH

possibly shadow note light angle, very bright, from low angle and to the rear. compare, light source is slightly lower same plane note the effect of bright sun on the canopy frame shadow Hurricane HW189 head armour by losethekibble, on Flickr possible damage repair before delivery to the squadron? The darker nose possibles are paint vs fabric, and fuel or oil staining, there is a filler port here, and panels removed were often cleaned by wiping with an oily cloth, sometimes just giving an even film making the panel visibly darker, as seen here. Note also the exhaust deposit, again this was regularly wiped off, but on a removed panel could make it then slightly darker. another example note the darker removable panel with YB on it, likely wiped over when off aircraft, this was the one removed for oxygen and radio access, and giving it an even smear of exhaust gunk and oil. Same thing on this Spitfire, the underwing gun access hatches, removed, on ground and wiped over and replaced. cheers T

the 3 photos of AN-V are all taken within minutes of each other, at the same time as the film I linked too on youtube of them escorting Boston's, so it's just an effect. Note the pilot is keeping an eye on the camera plane in all these. ONe thing that spending time mixing paint to match the RAF Museum MAP chips is great respect for how carefully the colours were picked, the subtle colour hues in them are very important. Dark Earth has a subtle greeness which few model paints replicate. I think there is colour film of the Boston's as well, I'd have to have a hunt for that.

possibly? I'd not though hugely about it, more about the other paint variations. I'll @Casey as might be of interest, one other that has caused discussion and confusion on here before, note fuselage roundel compared to wing and tail! Spitfire boneyard. by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr as well as the dark blue gun patches, colour of removed seat and zinc chromate(?) primer on wing root, grey green(?) inside of flaps. "Supermarine Spitfire JG726/`AN-L' of No 417 Squadron, Royal Canadian Air Force being cannibalized for parts at Gabes. The aircraft was scrapped after colliding with a Hudson during take-off on 19 April 1943." JG726 Vc CBAF M46 9MU 11-12-42 222MU 24-12-42 'Inchanga' 11-1-43 Takoradi 7-2-43 Middle East 14-3-43 417Sq 'AN-L' Hit Hudson FK385 on t/o Goubrine CB 19-4-43 FLt WJ Whiteside (RCAF) safe http://www.airhistory.org.uk/spitfire/p048.html Spitfire Vb...............SAAF by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr this really for the Light Mediterranean Blue (?) gun patches, yellow leading edge and the SAAF orange. http://www.airhistory.org.uk/spitfire/p042.html ER622 Vb CBAF M46 6MU 30-9-42 222MU 13-10-42 'Ocean Courage' 7-11-42 Takoradi 7-12-42 NWAfrica 601Sq 225Sq 15-4-44 40SAAF 'WR-D' [SOC 30-4-43] Turkey 22-2-45 Thanks to @Etiennedup

I have an overseas date of 13 July 1942. @Geoffrey Sinclair May have more. But interesting reasoned speculation. Testing ideas and sifting data can turn up the new connections. Interesting to see the logic behind the scheme, though the 3 tone uppers I find a jump too far, simply as it just at odds with what I know about RAF aircraft painting practice. Perhaps @Paul Lucas may add some comments. cheers T

Hi Tomasz Always of interest to see theories explained and examined, it is how we learn and the hobby evolves, and glad my comments and images were taken in the way intended, as a discussion and debate, because if I am going to disagree, then I need to explain why, and hopefully of interest to others seeing the model. cheers T

Again, a quick thanks to our @Etiennedup for hosting his fabulous collection of period colour images, which means I know where to find them easily Anyway, Used these many times... Masses of fascinating detail dull red rubber cannon seals, faded vs fresh Dark Earth and Middle Stone, exhaust deposits on the 2nd and 3rd stack, Close up of RCAF Spitfire V, 1943. by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr RCAF Spitfire V, 1943. by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr Note bits of paper doped over the shell ejector slots to stop dust entering, which would rip through when empty cases were ejected. RCAF Spitfire Mk V, 1943. by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr an interesting detail, the part visible serial, often wondered at full ID, so had a look at Spitfire production site, http://www.airhistory.org.uk/spitfire/p029.html all the BR4** are either PRIV T, or Vc T.... But pics show a B wing Note history of this BR470 BR470 VcT 2964 CHA M 46 FF 21-5-42 8MU 22-5-42 82MU 4-6-42 'Nigerstroom' 20-6-42 Takoradi 6-7-42 Middle East 18-7-42 601Sq FTR ops 31-8-42 SOC 23-9-42 salvaged 1-12-42 451Sq 417Sq 'AN-V' SOC 29-8-46 Look like BR470 failed to return (FTR) was struck off charge, then salvaged and the rebuilt with a B wing! ? also https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crp9LBuzQkE note AN-V at 0.37-0.39 @gingerbob @Geoffrey Sinclair

Why? I disagree, and will expand on a variety of factors as to why, which maybe of interest. The Tropical scheme has been discussed often, with little 'proof' other than a handful of possible photos and some written discussion. There are examples of desert Hurricanes that show that they were delivered in Temperate Land Scheme, and repainted. There are examples of TLS finish with Desert Scheme together, and the TLS plane is very weathered, and the Dark Green is still darker than the Dark Earth on the desert schemes from film, still are here https://www.britishpathe.com/asset/stills/92254/ And, yes, some excellent examples of that disruptive nose pattern on an aluminium paint base. how weathered? Battered.... I see a blob of fresh Dark Earth behind the K I could just about believe it being Tropical Scheme, compared to the Hudson, but why would the rear fuselage then be Dark Earth? examples of TLS repaints JV-I/BP158 and JV - (it has a horizontal bar) Note the dark canopy frames (Dark Green) All the examples I have seen are in in BP*** range and IID's Meanwhile HV663/ U - 6 Sq, 71 OTU, SOC HW313/ S - 6 SQ, shot down by flak on anti tank sweep near Sfax, 6.4.43 (note photo is dated 6.4.43!) HV594 /P , 6 Sq, Missing on anti-tank sweep near Sfax, 6.4.43 Are all in standard desert finish. regarding fresh vs faded Dark Earth and Middle Stone ( and interesting story as well..) RCAF Spitfire V, 1943. by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr So, while Tropical is a maybe, I don't believe the part Tropical/part Desert interpretation. Again, why? why half a repaint? One factor, there are examples of the fabric parts of Hurricanes either fading, or being of a more matt finish, appearing faded compared to the metal sections. More often seen on early examples, note the wing colour variations, and the fabric panel at the wing root, and the fresh Dark Earth where the roundel yellow fuselage outer rings have been painted out. Hurricane by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr Note variation in the Dark Earth here Close up of Hurricane Mk II d . by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr The only example I have run across in years of these discussions is this https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235126080-three-colour-wellington-camouflage/ I hope my lengthy critique and examples have been of interest. Indeed, I have seen quite a few of these where a too dark wash has been used and really spoils the end result. Lengthy post on colours aside, the model is very well done in build and finish.